The Rice Diet

[SupaDave]

Ok - after reading the numerous mentions of the rice diet in the Cameron Crazies thread I realized the diet was much older than I thought. I didn't even know it was a Duke thing but I can remember the watching the little diet center folks walking every morning around Duke Street. And of course we always heard the rumors of the names of the folks being treated by Duke in some shape or form.

Like wow, me and half of my Carrington Middle School wrestling team were on the rice diet in the late 80s. I saw someone mention the 60s and that blows my mind for such a "fad" diet to be around so long.

Me and my teammates may have been a little extreme (as most wrestlers usually are) but it's nearly impossible for some growing adolescents to keep their weight consistent so rice was the ONLY thing we ate. No butter. No salt. No pepper. To mix it up and stay "healthy", I'd eat oranges for breakfast. And usually one of the team moms made spaghetti on match days - no sauce - just spaghetti. For the energy in the carbs ya know?

Hilariously, we usually gorged after matches and everyone would shoot up 3 - 10 pounds and the whole cycle would begin again. I probably stunted my growth and I seriously blame wrestling for me not hitting 6 feet (oh and the aches and body pops also).

By the time I started wrestling at Northern, I gave up the diet and just went up a weight class. Once I stopped wrestling - I gained like 20 pounds overnight.

So now at the pretty fit age of 36 and awaiting beach body season I feel like this is my last chance to get my model body and I've realized that I might have to go into that wrestling mindset - soooo does anyone actually remember what the rice diet actually was?

[allenmurray]

It wasn't really a fad; it it was pretty well reserched. It is still being used in Durham, both at Duke and in some private programs.

http://www.ricedietprogram.com/

[Indoor66]

Ok - after reading the numerous mentions of the rice diet in the Cameron Crazies thread I realized the diet was much older than I thought. I didn't even know it was a Duke thing but I can remember the watching the little diet center folks walking every morning around Duke Street. And of course we always heard the rumors of the names of the folks being treated by Duke in some shape or form.

Like wow, me and half of my Carrington Middle School wrestling team were on the rice diet in the late 80s. I saw someone mention the 60s and that blows my mind for such a "fad" diet to be around so long.

Me and my teammates may have been a little extreme (as most wrestlers usually are) but it's nearly impossible for some growing adolescents to keep their weight consistent so rice was the ONLY thing we ate. No butter. No salt. No pepper. To mix it up and stay "healthy", I'd eat oranges for breakfast. And usually one of the team moms made spaghetti on match days - no sauce - just spaghetti. For the energy in the carbs ya know?

Hilariously, we usually gorged after matches and everyone would shoot up 3 - 10 pounds and the whole cycle would begin again. I probably stunted my growth and I seriously blame wrestling for me not hitting 6 feet (oh and the aches and body pops also).

By the time I started wrestling at Northern, I gave up the diet and just went up a weight class. Once I stopped wrestling - I gained like 20 pounds overnight.

So now at the pretty fit age of 36 and awaiting beach body season I feel like this is my last chance to get my model body and I've realized that I might have to go into that wrestling mindset - soooo does anyone actually remember what the rice diet actually was?

Check out a little history. Dr. Kempner was world famous and put Duke Medical Center on the map with his rice diet. There were and are "rice houses" located east of East Campus in some of the large homes in Trinity Park that were converted to that use.

The other area of early renown (and controversy) for Duke Medical Center was Dr. James B Rhine and his studies of Parapsychology. (Cue the theme from X-Files)

[budwom]

Lots of celebs used to litter the area on the Rice Diet back in the late sixties and early seventies. I remember Buddy Hackett getting thrown out of the program for ordering pizzas for his pals...he sat behind us one day at the premier of The Godfather IIRC.

When I wrote for the Chronicle, I got to know a writer from the Jersey (NJ) Journal, Caz Rakowski, who came down to spend a year on the diet. He was about 5-8, weighed in at 370 upon arrival. A most spherical chap. About nine months later he was down to about 170...

[jdj4duke]

Back in 169-71 I roomed with a basketball player, and the team had access to the swimming pool at one of the local hotels where the "Ricers" stayed. I think it was the Holiday Inn, but way too long ago to be sure.

Anyway, there were numerous rumors of the dieters fawning all over the players, and fawning used here in the most genteel manner I can muster. Also, there were some notorious "off the wagon" episodes including pounds of donuts, peanut butter, fried chicken, quarts of ice cream and so on.

The one I recall most vividly was a woman who, while staying at the Duke Hosp., managed to smuggle and entire turkey back to her room by holding it under her gown, undetected. Apparently the miscreant was discovered when the nurses came in to change the linen and found the entire carcass stripped clean and hidden in the foot of the bed.

Not trying to make light of those poor folks struggles, but some of the stuff that happened around the Rice Diet attendees were pretty hilarious, especially to us college boys.

[budwom]

Back in 169-71 I roomed with a basketball player, and the team had access to the swimming pool at one of the local hotels where the "Ricers" stayed. I think it was the Holiday Inn, but way too long ago to be sure.

Anyway, there were numerous rumors of the dieters fawning all over the players, and fawning used here in the most genteel manner I can muster. Also, there were some notorious "off the wagon" episodes including pounds of donuts, peanut butter, fried chicken, quarts of ice cream and so on.

The one I recall most vividly was a woman who, while staying at the Duke Hosp., managed to smuggle and entire turkey back to her room by holding it under her gown, undetected. Apparently the miscreant was discovered when the nurses came in to change the linen and found the entire carcass stripped clean and hidden in the foot of the bed.

Not trying to make light of those poor folks struggles, but some of the stuff that happened around the Rice Diet attendees were pretty hilarious, especially to us college boys.

May I ask which hoopster? I knew quite a few of those guys, during Bucky's Reign of Terror. (A notable member of that team recently told me that "Bucky has been rehabilitated," so all is forgiven.)

[roywhite]

Back in 169-71 I roomed with a basketball player, and the team had access to the swimming pool at one of the local hotels where the "Ricers" stayed. I think it was the Holiday Inn, but way too long ago to be sure.

Anyway, there were numerous rumors of the dieters fawning all over the players, and fawning used here in the most genteel manner I can muster. Also, there were some notorious "off the wagon" episodes including pounds of donuts, peanut butter, fried chicken, quarts of ice cream and so on.

The one I recall most vividly was a woman who, while staying at the Duke Hosp., managed to smuggle and entire turkey back to her room by holding it under her gown, undetected. Apparently the miscreant was discovered when the nurses came in to change the linen and found the entire carcass stripped clean and hidden in the foot of the bed.

Not trying to make light of those poor folks struggles, but some of the stuff that happened around the Rice Diet attendees were pretty hilarious, especially to us college boys.

Not very sensitive of me, but, what the heck, I'll jump in here, too. Late 60's and early 70's was my time frame, too, and I remember the "ricers" being a source of some interest. Buddy Hackett, Lorne Green, and Colonel Sanders himself were spotted on campus. One football player I knew specialized in finding ricers and dating them, reasoning that they were generally financially well-off and grateful for some attention.

The Holiday Inn pool was indeed where Duke scholarship athletes and Ricers tended to mingle.

[roywhite]

Lots of celebs used to litter the area on the Rice Diet back in the late sixties and early seventies. I remember Buddy Hackett getting thrown out of the program for ordering pizzas for his pals...he sat behind us one day at the premier of The Godfather IIRC.

When I wrote for the Chronicle, I got to know a writer from the Jersey (NJ) Journal, Caz Rakowski, who came down to spend a year on the diet. He was about 5-8, weighed in at 370 upon arrival. A most spherical chap. About nine months later he was down to about 170...

Was Caz the guy who was a constant companion of Richie O'Connor? Both north Jersey guys, and Caz IIRC used to tell Richie how great he was, which Richie liked to hear.

[sagegrouse]

Lots of celebs used to litter the area on the Rice Diet back in the late sixties and early seventies. I remember Buddy Hackett getting thrown out of the program for ordering pizzas for his pals...he sat behind us one day at the premier of The Godfather IIRC.

When I wrote for the Chronicle, I got to know a writer from the Jersey (NJ) Journal, Caz Rakowski, who came down to spend a year on the diet. He was about 5-8, weighed in at 370 upon arrival. A most spherical chap. About nine months later he was down to about 170...

Buddy Hackett must have been a regular at Kempner's program. He was at Duke in 1964 when Bob Hope played and came out of seats and did a brief bit -- really funny. The Godfather film was 1972.

sagegrouse

[jdj4duke]

May I ask which hoopster? I knew quite a few of those guys, during Bucky's Reign of Terror. (A notable member of that team recently told me that "Bucky has been rehabilitated," so all is forgiven.)

Check your private messages-

[budwom]

Very likely. They hung out a fair amount. Cas (I just Googled him) was hard to miss, being so round. Sadly learned from Googledom that Cas died at age 51 in 1993 (best I can piece together) meaning he was only about 30 when I knew him. I wonder if he kept the weight off.

By the way, while the Rice Diet still gets lots of ink, another Duke doc (pretty much on his own) is getting a log of pub for his high fat, low carb diet...urging his patients to pile on the bacon, eggs and sausage. Evidently it's working quite well (he claims it prevents overeating since fat is so satisfying...yum, fat...) but since it runs afoul of all the current cardiac conventional wisdom, he's taking quite a bit of crap for it. (I have no interest in getting into that whole morass).

[budwom]

Check your private messages-

You, too!

[hughgs]

By the way, while the Rice Diet still gets lots of ink, another Duke doc (pretty much on his own) is getting a log of pub for his high fat, low carb diet...urging his patients to pile on the bacon, eggs and sausage. Evidently it's working quite well (he claims it prevents overeating since fat is so satisfying...yum, fat...) but since it runs afoul of all the current cardiac conventional wisdom, he's taking quite a bit of crap for it. (I have no interest in getting into that whole morass).

Just to be clear he doesn't advocate piling on the bacon, eggs, and sausage. He clearly states that the clients need to reduce calories. What he says that people can reduce their caloric intake by eating many small meals that are predominantly carbo-based or they can eat a few larger meals with a high proportion of fat. The higher proportion of fat allows his patients to go longer between meals. The key is that in all cases you need to reduce the number of calories.

I think that having a second strategy can be a good thing. If you like to "constantly" eat, then you should probably think about a "traditional" carbohydrate based diet. If you're the type of person who doesn't snack then maybe you should think about a higher fat diet. But, no matter which you choose you still need to reduce the number of overall calories.

[Indoor66]

Buddy Hackett must have been a regular at Kempner's program. He was at Duke in 1964 when Bob Hope played and came out of seats and did a brief bit -- really funny. The Godfather film was 1972.

sagegrouse

Hackett was very much a regular. He owned a home in Willowhaven and was a member of the golf club there. IRRC, the Rice Diet also got Jimmy Snyder (Jimmy the Greek) to Durham. He ended up owning a home in Croasdaile.

[ArnieMc]

Hackett was very much a regular. He owned a home in Willowhaven and was a member of the golf club there. IRRC, the Rice Diet also got Jimmy Snyder (Jimmy the Greek) to Durham. He ended up owning a home in Croasdaile.

Yeah, I was whacking balls at the Duke driving range in the mid 60's. I thought the guy in front of me looked familiar. Sure enough, it was Buddy. He wasn't that good at golf, but he is one of my all time favorite comedians.

[budwom]

Just to be clear he doesn't advocate piling on the bacon, eggs, and sausage. He clearly states that the clients need to reduce calories. What he says that people can reduce their caloric intake by eating many small meals that are predominantly carbo-based or they can eat a few larger meals with a high proportion of fat. The higher proportion of fat allows his patients to go longer between meals. The key is that in all cases you need to reduce the number of calories.

I think that having a second strategy can be a good thing. If you like to "constantly" eat, then you should probably think about a "traditional" carbohydrate based diet. If you're the type of person who doesn't snack then maybe you should think about a higher fat diet. But, no matter which you choose you still need to reduce the number of overall calories.

While I'll agree that ultimately he (Dr. Eric Westman) expects people to consume fewer calories due to the fact that fat is more satisfying, I'll stand by the statement that he doesn't mind people piling on the fat. This week the New and Observer reported that "He scans a list of foods they eat and doesn't bat an eye at their consumption of eggs, sausage and bacon, coffee with heavy cream, or pork rinds...he tells one 'fat is your friend.' "

But yeah, eventually people become satisfied and their caloric consumption decreases.
(Except for all those people at Bullocks).

[hughgs]

While I'll agree that ultimately he (Dr. Eric Westman) expects people to consume fewer calories due to the fact that fat is more satisfying, I'll stand by the statement that he doesn't mind people piling on the fat. This week the New and Observer reported that "He scans a list of foods they eat and doesn't bat an eye at their consumption of eggs, sausage and bacon, coffee with heavy cream, or pork rinds...he tells one 'fat is your friend.' "

But yeah, eventually people become satisfied and their caloric consumption decreases.
(Except for all those people at Bullocks).

And, in that same article he says that you have to cut down the calories. There's a big difference between your interpretation - "... urging his patients to pile on the bacon, eggs and sausage ..." and his quote - "... consumption of eggs, sausage and bacon, coffee with heavy cream, or pork rinds ...".

[budwom]

When he pointedly tell patients that "fat is your friend" I don't agree that he's emphasizing moderation. I do agree that because fat is so satisfying (ultimately gagging in large quantities) the end result is that people end up consuming a lot less of it (and hence fewer calories) after initially eating lots of fat. I tried this many years ago when I wanted to shed a few pounds, and it works. The first few days you can eat lots of fat, but eventually you just don't want large amounts of it.

However, this leads to a craving for something like a large bowl of carbo-filled pasta, something you have to fight off. I guess you have to pick your poison.

[budwom]

Taking a quick look at the on-line info from the Atkins diet (which Westman is aligned with) you'll see comments like "feel free to eat more meat, eggs or hard cheese, with meals or as snacks." Hence my comment about piling on that stuff.

I recommend you Google the Vanderbilt University info on the Atkins Diet. Their summary of the diet clearly states "You can eat all the rich, fatty foods you want and still lose weight." Carb intake is limited to precise numbers of grams. Fat intake is not limited.

But the end result is that appetites are satisfied, and fewer calories are consumed (eventually).

[rasputin]

Hackett was very much a regular. He owned a home in Willowhaven and was a member of the golf club there. IRRC, the Rice Diet also got Jimmy Snyder (Jimmy the Greek) to Durham. He ended up owning a home in Croasdaile.

I'm pretty sure that what got Jimmy the Greek to Durham was a child having treatment for a serious illness at the medical center.