MBB: Duke 74, Miami 63 Post-Game Thread

[SMO]

Glass half full/Glass half empty. We just have a different outlook on life.

You got that right. Dude is probably still reeling from the fact that Duke only beat Butler BY TWO last April!

[loran16]

You got that right. Dude is probably still reeling from the fact that Duke only beat Butler BY TWO last April!

Err can be fair to those with dissenting opinions? The people complaining about this performance are not looking to find fault with Duke just because and are not complaining about winning.

What people are pointing out is that this performance isn't necessarily what you'd hope for, and thus if it was to continue, could come back to bite Duke in the future.

No one cares about the point margin in the last game of the season. But people can care about performance up to that point, because it has bearing on the rest of the season. Don't be insulting.

[Saratoga2]

I thought we had a reasonably good game for having played so little - and played no one of consequence - over the last month. Pom has Miami as the 56th best team out there.

We took a solid team and beat them comfortably. We out rebounded them. We out shot them, even if we didn't get into the bonus until the very end. (And our free-throw defense was fabulous!)

We have weaknesses, but that's what college ball is about: the journey. This was our first real game without Kyrie. We have two seniors any team would love to have. Beyond them, we have one junior and the rest underclassmen for a supporting cast in development. If we're really lucky, we'll get Kyrie back but I'm not counting on it.

This particular game doesn't worry me too much. So long as everyone continues to work hard on getting better, I think we'll have a fine year. (I won't go so far as to predict what happens in March; one-and-done leaves way too much to chance!)

-jk

I thought they had 41 rebounds to our 39.

[Reilly]

Maybe I'm still reeling from New Year's eve hooch but I thought we were fine! ...

Good use of the word hoo(t)ch. [There are some variances in spelling.] Just mere use of the word (not talking about use of the product) takes a conversation to a less serious, more fun place. Thanks.

[camion]

Wow, what a sad way to look at the game.

A conference win by double digits, first game in the ACC and first against good competition since the loss of Kyrie, and you're focused on the game not being a blowout?

Great performance by Nolan, clutch offense from Andre, good overall defense.

Good way to start the conference season.

That pretty much sums up my feelings.

We played solid against a good, not great, team. The game was never in doubt after Nolan went off in the first half. It was really a pretty easy win. I'm happy with it.

[JMarley50]

I'm personally not mad that we didn't blow them out. I would have been completely satisfied with a 5 point win, if they played well and we played better than they did. But they didn't play well, and neither did we. You guys keep talking about this is a top 5 team in the ACC. So what? Where do they stand in the country? Last time I checked our goal isn't to win the ACC only. They gave us a very tough game.

If that were say Syracuse in the Tourney we would have gotten spanked bad. Miami's suspect zone D gave us fits when they ran it. Image what a Jimmy Boheim zone would do to us. I bet he'd run a 3-2 zone, force us to pass it inside, and we'd be up a certain creek without a paddle at that point because we can't score in the paint unless Kyrie is throwing lobs. I won't even get into us trying to stop someone like Jared Sullinger from having 30 and 15.

I know its our first conference game and everything, and its great we came away with a win. But we have issues. If you guys honestly feel like the team we watched play TONIGHT is capable of making a push for the final four, you are going to be extremely disappointed.

[4decadedukie]

I am entirely serious. My long-held view is all seasons have three segments: (1) the tune-up season in November and December, where teams meld, assess and resolve their problems, and prepare for the vital conference schedule; (2) the ACCC season, which is a crucible and which largely determines post-season tournament successes (through seeding, as much as any other factor); and (3) the ACC and NCAA Tournaments.

When Duke (especially this year, with all the "repeat Championship hyperbole") at home and in its ACC opener, does not decisively put away a second tier ACC opponent, it can -- I am NOT saying it will -- create corrosive doubts in our locker room as well as real optimism in our opponents'. Even worse, many of the deficiencies I observed this evening may not simply be those of a single poor game -- they may extend far deeper.

I earnestly hope I am wrong, I ardently hope the focus, the defensive intensity, the selfless teamwork that defeated MSU, Butler, Marquette, K State, Oregon, and Bradley reappear, and I sincerely hope our team plays to its fulll potential. Last year was marvelous because Duke overachieved, playing very close to it's complete potential. Every team that reaches a high competitive level -- let's say Final Four -- must do so. We shall see if this incredibly talented Duke club can do so. Tonight we certainly did not, and that is precisely what concerns me.

[Newton_14]

Just got back in from the game and a bit shocked at all of the negative nellies. Good grief. We are not going to win every game by 30 points. FWIW, Coach K thought we played a really solid game, and other than our guys missing a few open looks he was extremely pleased.

Our "terrible" PG scored 28 points and totally shut down what some are calling the best backcourt in the ACC now that Irving is out. (I don't agree and apparently neither does Nolan).

That guy "lost on another planet" named Mason pulled down 10 boards and blocked 4 shots. Miles played good defense and rebounded well as did Kelly. This was a typical hard fought conference game. The intensity in the building was high. We made it a point to take away Miami's strength, which is Grant and Scott, and 3 Point shooting.

What we gave up to do that was inside baskets to Johnson, most of which were catches after our big shut off the driving lane of Scott/Grant. Johnson played well, tip your hat to him, but our bigs in no way played poorly tonight.

If we make a few more of the open looks we got, this game is a total blowout. As it was, we held a double-digit lead most of the 2nd half. Given this was our first real test without Kyrie, I thought our guys performed well. It wasn't perfect, but for a conference opener against one of the teams that will battle for a upperlevel finish in the ACC, it was a solid performance. We never allowed Miami to make a serious run in the 2nd half, so not sure how some feel we "almost lost" this game.

[Mcluhan]

ACC basketball, folks. It's competitive.

We're pretty used to what Duke looks like against the UNC-G's and Elon's of the world. This is what we look like on an off night against a better team. Pretty firmly in control.

There's nothing that we better do now OR ELSE WE'LL SPIN INTO A VORTEX OF DISASTER. We should working on things. New things, old things. Coach K probably agrees.

The Plumlees are destined to be this season's enigmas. But our committee of three was decent tonight.

Nolan is quite underrated.

[Waynne]

Nolan was incredible tonight, Kyle wasn't his best but still contributed, Andre and Kelly were good. The Plumlees were solid if not spectacular. Curry was really the only player who went missing. But this is a Duke team that needs Nolan and Kyle to have good games, and for at least one other player to score in the >15 point range. Kyrie used to be that guy, but now we'll need someone else to be able to consistently fill that role.

Last year we had the "Big Three" and this year without Kyrie we have the "Big Two". I agree we need a reliable third scorer, and it's beginning to appear to me that that player may be Dawkins. He made some very nice moves to the basket tonight and is showing he can hit pull-up twos or go to the rim when the lane is open. I wish he would flush the ball with two hands instead of trying for highlight reel one handers, but who's complaining?

[-jk]

I thought they had 41 rebounds to our 39.

Could be. ESPN stats aren't terribly reliable.

-jk

[gumbomoop]

Here I import my comments from the Phase III thread:

I'm looking especially at these things:

1. Nolan seems very, very confident. Will he be in the conversation, a month from now, re 1st team AA?

2. I'm hoping to see a semi-breakout game, in the next 5 or 6, from each of our 3 main bigs: Ryan, Miles, and Mason.

3. A second key is a strong game from either Andre or Seth.

4. Kyle and Nolan - One or the other must be the best player on the floor for us to win the close games. Doesn't matter which.

5. Duke will win almost [and probably] all close games in which:

a. either Kyle or Nolan is superb, and
b. either Seth or Andre scores 12-15 points and plays good D, and
c. either Ryan or Mason or Miles gets near a double-double [or, as an alternate, collectively they produce, say, 18 and 18, with 3-4 blocks], and
d. Duke plays every play on D

Although I wouldn't ... quite ... call this a "close game," I'll concede that it was a bit closer than I expected, perhaps because I forgot that Miami has played Duke very tough in recent seasons.

Thus, although I wouldn't ... quite ... say that my own "keys to victory" absolutely had to be produced to get this win, I'd also say that the keys did in fact happen tonight.

Namely:

1. Nolan was in fact superb. To say that he played with confidence this evening would be an understatement.
2. Andre scored 16 [and both he and Seth played good D].
3. Ryan, Miles, and Mason together had 16 and 22, with 8 blocks - close enough [for me] to 18/18/4. This wasn't ... quite ... a breakout game for Ryan, but it was close enough to "semi" to be nice to see. Ryan's physical gifts don't match those of the MPs, but he's got better instincts, so he gets a lot more from his solid talents than do they. Smart game. He should garner a nice comment or two from K.
4. Duke played [almost] every play on D. I'd guess only a couple of times was K, uh, perturbed.

[chrisheery]

Just want to point out that Duke, as a team, missed 6 wide open threes by my count. If they shoot 50% on those, as they normally do (I'm talking wide open shots by Dre, Seth, and Kyle), Duke wins by 17. Wouldn't everyone feel better then? I think they would. It is just funny how a few missed shots that do not affect the outcome of the game sway the opinion of the fans about how the team played. Essentially, you are saying the team played poorly because they missed open shots. That is only one aspect of the game, and it can be a big one at times, but Duke did a lot of things well tonight and will make those shots most of the time. So, fear not.

[dukelifer]

Duke played okay tonight but the start of the ACC season is always tough and Duke has been feasting on pretty weak opponents of late. You get tough games every night out in the ACC. The Plumlee boys did a fine job on the boards but continue to struggle around the hoop. Again Kelly was a big spark and did a lot of little things all night. Andre is really a weapon. He is shooting the ball from all over the floor. He is critical for this team to get on big runs. It will be hard to keep him off the court. Nolan put the team on his back tonight as a senior captain needs to do from time to time. Kyle's poor shooting kept this from being a blowout- he made Miami's zone look better than it was. He missed a lot of open shots. Without Kyrie, Duke is going to have a hard time getting huge margin of victories- but I will take a double digit ACC win any night.

[4decadedukie]

One of our participants just awarded a "red" rating for my post #15 (to this thread), with only the comment of "sarcasm;" naturally, this negative report was unsigned. The fact is, I sincerely believe -- although it greatly troubles me -- exactly what I indicated in post #15; further, when I was requested to elaborate my rationale by at least two participants, I did so in post #47.

Therefore, we have an unattributed red criticism, with no explanation other than a single word ("sarcasm"), despite a (I believe) legitimate (although certainly arguable) analysis in #15, and an additional elaboration in #47. Have we reached then point where sincerely held and reasonable opinions cannot be expressed? In my value system, this is plainly cowardly.

[DukeDevilDeb]

I'm personally not mad that we didn't blow them out. I would have been completely satisfied with a 5 point win, if they played well and we played better than they did. But they didn't play well, and neither did we. You guys keep talking about this is a top 5 team in the ACC. So what? Where do they stand in the country? Last time I checked our goal isn't to win the ACC only. They gave us a very tough game.

If that were say Syracuse in the Tourney we would have gotten spanked bad. Miami's suspect zone D gave us fits when they ran it. Image what a Jimmy Boheim zone would do to us. I bet he'd run a 3-2 zone, force us to pass it inside, and we'd be up a certain creek without a paddle at that point because we can't score in the paint unless Kyrie is throwing lobs. I won't even get into us trying to stop someone like Jared Sullinger from having 30 and 15.

I know its our first conference game and everything, and its great we came away with a win. But we have issues. If you guys honestly feel like the team we watched play TONIGHT is capable of making a push for the final four, you are going to be extremely disappointed.

...about last year's team? Expect them to be in the Final Four? Win an NC?

It may be very late in the "season" (whatever that means) but it certainly isn't very late in the ACC season, given that this was our first game.

I thought some of the problems in the middle had to do with the referees who allowed Reggie to plant himself in the paint and to have two pivot feet! I thought Mason looked scared of him at the beginning of the game, though Miles and Ryan didn't.

And rebounding... we weren't outrebounded by them. We had 37; they had 32.

I am surprised not to see more comments about the officiating. Those of us in Cameron were in shock over so many Miami no-calls and so many dinky Duke calls. And although you probably couldn't see it on TV, at every media time out, one of the refs was talking with the Miami coaching staff... glad they were friendly!

[gep]

.... I wish he would flush the ball with two hands instead of trying for highlight reel one handers, but who's complaining?

Is it possible that at his height, a 2-hand dunk is very hard? (wondering out loud... No idea otherwise)

[JMarley50]

Just got back in from the game and a bit shocked at all of the negative nellies. Good grief. We are not going to win every game by 30 points. FWIW, Coach K thought we played a really solid game, and other than our guys missing a few open looks he was extremely pleased.

Our "terrible" PG scored 28 points and totally shut down what some are calling the best backcourt in the ACC now that Irving is out. (I don't agree and apparently neither does Nolan).

That guy "lost on another planet" named Mason pulled down 10 boards and blocked 4 shots. Miles played good defense and rebounded well as did Kelly. This was a typical hard fought conference game. The intensity in the building was high. We made it a point to take away Miami's strength, which is Grant and Scott, and 3 Point shooting.

What we gave up to do that was inside baskets to Johnson, most of which were catches after our big shut off the driving lane of Scott/Grant. Johnson played well, tip your hat to him, but our bigs in no way played poorly tonight.

If we make a few more of the open looks we got, this game is a total blowout. As it was, we held a double-digit lead most of the 2nd half. Given this was our first real test without Kyrie, I thought our guys performed well. It wasn't perfect, but for a conference opener against one of the teams that will battle for a upperlevel finish in the ACC, it was a solid performance. We never allowed Miami to make a serious run in the 2nd half, so not sure how some feel we "almost lost" this game.

That same lost guy also had 4 turnovers, and was 1 of 5 from the field. 2 of those misses were from 3 ft and the other one started at 3 ft and ended at 10 ft due to god awful fade away, and then there was that air balled jumper that he still hasn't realized he does not need to be shooting. He wanted rebounds alright. So bad that Nolan corralled one and with only Seth and Nolan standing there Mason reaches in and tries to fight the ball away from Nolan, not realizing it was his teammate and nearly knocked him out of bounds in the process. Nolan passed the ball to Seth as he fell out of bounds then proceeded to glare at Mason. He also wandered around lost numerous times on both offense and defense. Johnson just made him look like...well I'm not even going there.

What you forget is I am a Duke fan like you, I bleed blue. I love these guys as much as all of you do. But that don't mean we should be like the parents who always see their kid as the best on the team, when they truthfully barely made the team. When these guys play great, I praise, when they play bad I am critical. I don't enjoy it, I would rather they play great personally. I am not trying to "bad mouth or bash" them. Just merely trying to discuss the weaknesses and problems that I saw in my Devils tonight, with people who love Duke basketball just as much as myself.

In fact I can make another post with all of the positives that I saw if you'd like. If it somehow balances out the negatives. But the positives mostly came from the guys that always do those things. So no big surprise. Nothing we haven't applauded them on hundreds of times before.

[El_Diablo]

Just got back in from the game and a bit shocked at all of the negative nellies. Good grief. We are not going to win every game by 30 points. FWIW, Coach K thought we played a really solid game, and other than our guys missing a few open looks he was extremely pleased.

Our "terrible" PG scored 28 points and totally shut down what some are calling the best backcourt in the ACC now that Irving is out. (I don't agree and apparently neither does Nolan).

That guy "lost on another planet" named Mason pulled down 10 boards and blocked 4 shots. Miles played good defense and rebounded well as did Kelly. This was a typical hard fought conference game. The intensity in the building was high. We made it a point to take away Miami's strength, which is Grant and Scott, and 3 Point shooting.

What we gave up to do that was inside baskets to Johnson, most of which were catches after our big shut off the driving lane of Scott/Grant. Johnson played well, tip your hat to him, but our bigs in no way played poorly tonight.

If we make a few more of the open looks we got, this game is a total blowout. As it was, we held a double-digit lead most of the 2nd half. Given this was our first real test without Kyrie, I thought our guys performed well. It wasn't perfect, but for a conference opener against one of the teams that will battle for a upperlevel finish in the ACC, it was a solid performance. We never allowed Miami to make a serious run in the 2nd half, so not sure how some feel we "almost lost" this game.

I agree completely. Instead of getting hung up on how weak Miami is supposed to be, let's give them credit for playing well tonight. They attacked the rim consistently and had some good ball movement in the lane. Johnson was a beast, displaying a number of strong post moves and finishing on contested shots. They hit a couple threes at the end to make the game seem closer than it really was. They held onto the ball pretty well, turning it over only 12 times.

We missed a number of open shots early. Other than that, I think we played okay. Held them to 24 in the first half. Overcame some ridiculous officiating. Outrebounded Miami despite the fact that they crashed the boards hard on the offensive end.

To those who think the rest of the ACC is just going to drop trou and accept what's coming to them, you might want to adjust your expectations...there will be a number of tough games coming up. And stop believing the media hype about how weak the ACC is this year. If Miami plays like this every game, they're a tournament team...no doubt about it. Their problem will be consistency and focus, not talent.

There are certainly some things to continue working on, but come on...it's January 2nd. At this point last year, we were still a week away from losing to GT and four weeks away from getting completely steamrolled by Georgetown. We are not peaking yet, but I'm fine with that as long as we make adjustments and continue to improve.

[roywhite]

One of our participants just awarded a "red" rating for my post #15 (to this thread), with only the comment of "sarcasm;" naturally, this negative report was unsigned. The fact is, I sincerely believe -- although it greatly troubles me -- exactly what I indicated in post #15; further, when I was requested to elaborate my rationale by at least two participants, I did so in post #47.

Therefore, we have an unattributed red criticism, with no explanation other than a single word ("sarcasm"), despite a (I believe) legitimate analysis in #15, and an additional elaboration in #47. Have we reached then point where sincerely held and reasonable opinions cannot be expressed? In my value system, this is plainly cowardly.

I sent that comment.

I couldn't believe your post. I was hoping it was a poor attempt at sarcasm.