Coach K and Dean Smith

[-bdbd]

It's a shame, but this site's message board looks more and more like IC every time I come here.

Oh, my. Now that's just plain nasty!!



(And not the least bit accurate...)

[calvindog]

Dean was obviously a great coach but only winning two NCs with the talent he had is almost hard to believe. Great coach but it can never be argued he was the greatest; not even close. K has completely obliterated Dean's accomplishments on the court and still has another 150+ wins in him.

[jdj4duke]

It's a shame, but this site's message board looks more and more like IC every time I come here.

You apparently have not spent much time on IC.

[Devilsfan]

I wouldn't trade Coach Mike for three Deans. Enough of the PC BS our Coach leads by far in the Class Department when coaching. Many don't remember the vocal outbursts against opposing players and the like while Dean was on the bench. Do I feel sorry for him now with his metal capabilities diminishing, of course.

[cspan37421]

I wouldn't trade Coach Mike for three Deans. Enough of the PC BS

You are implying that some of us are saying what we are saying because of concerns that we will appear "politically correct", rather the possibility that we mean precisely what we say, that we have earnest convictions.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't care to have my views thus characterized. How about showing a little more of the "Class Department" yourself in your dialogue with fellow Devils fans? Thanks.

[OldPhiKap]

My memory may not be accurate, but it seems to me that Coach Spurrier stopped this practice about the time Coach Cutcliffe arrived.

DiBD, the timing may be about right but I do not think that was the reason. There was some national press about Steve's practice, and I think he was pressured to stop.

[devildeac]

DiBD, the timing may be about right but I do not think that was the reason. There was some national press about Steve's practice, and I think he was pressured to stop.

This is my recollection also.

[Faison1]

I wouldn't trade Coach Mike for three Deans. Enough of the PC BS our Coach leads by far in the Class Department when coaching. Many don't remember the vocal outbursts against opposing players and the like while Dean was on the bench. Do I feel sorry for him now with his metal capabilities diminishing, of course.

Trying to say one is better than the other is just foolish, if you ask me. If we base it on Natty Championship count, yes, K is ahead, but only because of a few lucky (good and bad) breaks for both K and Dean.

I am the biggest K fan there is, but coaches like Dean (and K) are the elite, where just a few programs in the history of the game are lucky enough to have witnessed and experienced their success and leadership.

I, for one, will always hold K and Dean as equals, rather than trying to convince anyone that either was better than the other.

[DevilHorns]

Trying to say one is better than the other is just foolish, if you ask me. If we base it on Natty Championship count, yes, K is ahead, but only because of a few lucky (good and bad) breaks for both K and Dean.

I am the biggest K fan there is, but coaches like Dean (and K) are the elite, where just a few programs in the history of the game are lucky enough to have witnessed and experienced their success and leadership.

I, for one, will always hold K and Dean as equals, rather than trying to convince anyone that either was better than the other.

Interesting take. For me, it's clear they aren't ''equals'' when it comes to coaching. Dean had a mammoth amount of talent over his 30+ years at UNC. Having only 2 championships to his name is under-performing given that level of talent. They are both elite coaches. One is more elite than the other, and it's not even close at this point.

Best of all time is K vs Wooden. Only UNC fans add Smith to that debate.

[BattierBattalion]

I honestly don't see how anyone can objectively consider Dean to even be on the same level as K. Arguing that Dean inspired K's greatness is a silly point. K provided his own agency to accomplish what he did. Also, if we're going to talk about coaches that inspire K, what about Bobby Knight? It's safe to say that Bobby Knight had a far bigger impact on K's career than Dean did. No matter how you look at it (numbers, eye test, versatility), K is simply better.

Dean is a top 10 college basketball coach of all time, but K is a top 2.

[Faison1]

Interesting take. For me, it's clear they aren't ''equals'' when it comes to coaching. Dean had a mammoth amount of talent over his 30+ years at UNC. Having only 2 championships to his name is under-performing given that level of talent. They are both elite coaches. One is more elite than the other, and it's not even close at this point.

Best of all time is K vs Wooden. Only UNC fans add Smith to that debate.

Believe me, I think K is one of the best. But, when you look at the Pantheon of great coaches, it is hard for me to say it all comes down to K and Wooden. I'm sure we (along with BattierBattalion) could get into a weeks long debate about our arguments, but I would start by asking you this:

If Duke had been bounced in the Sweet 16 last year, would you still feel as strongly about K vs. Dean as you do right now?

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

DiBD, the timing may be about right but I do not think that was the reason. There was some national press about Steve's practice, and I think he was pressured to stop.

I wasn't suggesting a cause and effect, but rather a timely coincidence.

[OldPhiKap]

I wasn't suggesting a cause and effect, but rather a timely coincidence.

I know I can't out-info you in pigskin!

Merry Christmas, hope the snow is deep enough to enjoy and scattered enough to deal with. -- OPK

[DevilHorns]

If Duke had been bounced in the Sweet 16 last year, would you still feel as strongly about K vs. Dean as you do right now?

That is an excellent question.

Dean Smith resume:

Gold Medal Men's Basketball (1976 Summer Olympics)
2 NCAA Championships
(1982, 1993)
11 Regional Championships - Final Four (1967, 1968, 1969, 1972, 1977, 1981, 1982, 1991, 1993, 1995, 1997)
13 ACC Tournament Championships
(1967, 1968, 1969, 1972, 1975, 1977, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1989, 1991, 1994, 1997)


Coach K resume:

Gold medal – Men's Basketball (2008 Summer Olympics)
Gold medal – FIBA World Championship (2010)
4 NCAA Tournament Championships (1991, 1992, 2001, 2010)
11 Regional Championships – Final Four (1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1999, 2001, 2004, 2010)
12 ACC Tournament Championships (1986, 1988, 1992, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010)


K has had 6 less years in the ACC than Smith and has only 1 less ACC title. If we take away last year's NCAA title, he is still on a better pace in terms of ACC titles while still having more NCAA titles at 3-2. At 3-2 titles I think there's more of a debate and numbers can be presented in certain ways to make an argument for either side (Dean has a better win% than K overall, though K started at Army and K has a better win% at Duke than Dean had at UNC; Dean has more wins head-to-head, but then again most of those were padded in K's early days at Duke, and besides, Bubas is better head-to-head than Dean, does that make Bubas better than Dean?, K has a better record in Final four games and in championship games where the competition is hardest, and the best NCAA tourney win%, Dean was an 'innovator'... etc).

In the end, our reality is 4 championships with last year's coaching performance as arguably one of the best of all time in the sport. I don't think Dean could have taken a team like we had last year to a championship. That is my opinion looking at his body of work as a coach during the post-season. Great question though, the numbers are very close if we think in terms of 3 vs 2 championships instead of 4 vs 2.

[OldPhiKap]

The book on Dean is closed.

The book on Krzyzewski is still being writ, in letters large and bold.


While the matter can be subject to some legitimate debate at this point, by the time all is said and done I don't think the comparison will be that close. It's hard to picture us not in the hunt for a few more numbers to add to K's list over the next few years, at least.

[Brian913]

If Duke had been bounced in the Sweet 16 last year, would you still feel as strongly about K vs. Dean as you do right now?

That is a nonsensical question.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I know I can't out-info you in pigskin!

Merry Christmas, hope the snow is deep enough to enjoy and scattered enough to deal with. -- OPK

Thank you! Merry Christmas and Happy Solstice to you and your family. We've got enough snow to qualify as a serious snowfall around this part of the world. Having it fall on Christmas Day is the really special part.

Too bad I'm so far away from the football team at the moment. A couple of linemen could have cleared that driveway for me in no time!

[superdave]

If Duke had been bounced in the Sweet 16 last year, would you still feel as strongly about K vs. Dean as you do right now?

If Chris Webber had not called that time out...would anyone care about Dean?
If Fred Brown had not thrown the ball to James Worthy...would anyone care about Dean?

I dont think what if is a good game to play when comparing the two. We have enough indisputable facts to compare them.

Super "Or we could do the what if thing and go ahead and give K titles in '86, '94, '99 and '04" Dave

[77devil]

DiBD, the timing may be about right but I do not think that was the reason. There was some national press about Steve's practice, and I think he was pressured to stop.

This is correct. 2007 was the last year he voted for Duke incidentally.

"The University of South Carolina head coach said Grant Teaff, executive director of the American Football Coaches Association, asked him not to put Duke in the poll."

"He just said I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't vote for Duke to keep the integrity of the poll alive," Spurrier said. "So I went with him."

[hurleyfor3]

I don't think Dean could have taken a team like we had last year to a championship.

Actually, he did, in 1993.