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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I don't think the stomp taints Laettner's college profile, but it was an incredibly classless act from an otherwise classy guy.
    Laettner was nasty and arrogant so classy might not be the best description. Hurley and Hill have as much as said the Laettner was nearly intolerable as a teamate but a great player and leader on the court. Ask Cherokee Parks how classy Laettner was. I think all those guys would admit that he was the man on those teams and gave them some necessary swagger and toughness to win close games. Laettner knew how good he was and he expected to win.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by dukeballboy88 View Post
    Its only 1 reason why people play the game at this level. Yeah I go to the why because I love it but the next level play the game to win. You can not put a player with no rings over a player with multiple or just 1 ring even. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!

    Laettner was the best player on a great team and he put up numbers along the way. In 92, Duke had to play with out Hurley and Grant for a few weeks but didnt miss a beat because Laettner was there. In the game against Kentucky when he hit the shot, the dude didnt miss a shot from the field and from the line and history shows Duke needed every one of them to win. This shouldnt even be a debate.
    This statement is true in a sense but flawed as well. Yes you look at champoinships when talking about great players but they have to have great players with them as well. Christian might not have ever won NC without the supporting cast he had. And since JJ never won a NC that means he should not be mentioned as a great Duke player? I don't think so, championships should define a coach and team but not a player. Greatest players it goes beyond just stats and wins, I don't think there is a definition for greatness... you just know it when you see it.

  3. #43
    Join Date
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    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    Laettner was nasty and arrogant so classy might not be the best description. Hurley and Hill have as much as said the Laettner was nearly intolerable as a teamate but a great player and leader on the court. Ask Cherokee Parks how classy Laettner was. I think all those guys would admit that he was the man on those teams and gave them some necessary swagger and toughness to win close games. Laettner knew how good he was and he expected to win.
    I have actually had the chance to ask a few Laettner-era Duke players about his reputation and they had nothing but nice things to say about him.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    Laettner was nasty and arrogant so classy might not be the best description. Hurley and Hill have as much as said the Laettner was nearly intolerable as a teamate but a great player and leader on the court. Ask Cherokee Parks how classy Laettner was. I think all those guys would admit that he was the man on those teams and gave them some necessary swagger and toughness to win close games. Laettner knew how good he was and he expected to win.
    Um where are you getting this? Yea he had "swagger" and a never lose attitude but arrogant? Nasty? I don't think I can agree with that at all.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke: A Dynasty View Post
    This statement is true in a sense but flawed as well. Yes you look at champoinships when talking about great players but they have to have great players with them as well. Christian might not have ever won NC without the supporting cast he had. And since JJ never won a NC that means he should not be mentioned as a great Duke player? I don't think so, championships should define a coach and team but not a player. Greatest players it goes beyond just stats and wins, I don't think there is a definition for greatness... you just know it when you see it.
    JJ didn't excel so much in the tournament games. I think that is a legitimate chink in his armor. If he could have mustered one of his "unconscious" games during one of Duke's tournament losses they might have won a championship. He was a great Duke player player but the biggest difference in their legacies is the Championships. Championships should and do play a role defining a player's legacy.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC

    Give Me a Break!

    Quote Originally Posted by kybluedevil View Post
    Laettner, outside of Duke, will always be linked to the foot-stomping of Aminu Timberlake at The Spectrum, 1992. This was 100% classless, from a supposedly "All-American".

    This was pivotal for Duke: They went from being the lovable underdog that slayed the Beast (1991 UNLV), to being the most reviled team for 2 decades. We can thank Laettner for every negative stereotype.
    I flew into the Cincinnati airport (in Kentucky) shortly after the 1992 win, wearing my Duke basketball jacket. I was almost arrested! Everyone was talking about Laettner's stomp.

    Fifteen years later, I did the same thing. I was still almost arrested. Everyone was talking about how Laettner had beaten Kentucky. Big difference.

    Oh, they still hate Laettner in Kentucky... but it is for being so good, not for the stomp.
    DukeDevilDeb

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke: A Dynasty View Post
    Um where are you getting this? Yea he had "swagger" and a never lose attitude but arrogant? Nasty? I don't think I can agree with that at all.
    It is well known.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...00/5/index.htm

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Winston Salem, NC

    Yes!

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilWearsPrada View Post
    I absolutely love Christian!!! One of Duke's greatest players!!!

    I also think Johnny Dawkins was also!!! And Grant Hill!

    And Shane Battier (Who's your Daddy?) Love Shane and J Will!!!!!

    When I was younger, I loved Tate Armstrong and Mike Gminski!!


    Before, those days, I just have to read others comments.

    Christian holds alot of records! But I have several favorites. He is so worthy of all his accolades. Congrats to CL!
    All the above players and before them: Art Heyman, Jeff Mullins, Jack Marin, Mike Lewis, Bob Verga, Howard Hurt and more. Go Duke!

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    JJ didn't excel so much in the tournament games. I think that is a legitimate chink in his armor. If he could have mustered one of his "unconscious" games during one of Duke's tournament losses they might have won a championship. He was a great Duke player player but the biggest difference in their legacies is the Championships. Championships should and do play a role defining a player's legacy.
    Yes you are correct but I think it should not be a big deciding factor. Maybe if JJ's senior year they had an elite pg that could create better or another scoring option other than Sheldon then he would not have had to worry about dropping 20 or more every night to win. Those guys didn't win the NC's the team did. I just think NC's should be the last thing considered since one player can't do it alone.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    Huh? Do you mean that he had swagger and a strong desire to win? Or that he was nasty and arrogant? Sorry im confused.

  11. #51
    Join Date
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    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    The best response to this is the following:

    National Champion 1991, 1992
    Tournament MOP 1991
    Only player to start 4 Final Fours
    All-time leading scorer NCAA tournament history.

    For all the haters out there, think on that. Or as Dickie V would say "What's not to love!?"

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    I have actually had the chance to ask a few Laettner-era Duke players about his reputation and they had nothing but nice things to say about him.
    I'm not an insider but I have spoken to folks who knew Laettner personally. I don't think it is very controversial to say that he was arrogant and nasty. A couple minutes of googling:

    • COLLEGE BASKETBALL; Hurley Just Throws Passes, Not Barbs
    BY MALCOLM MORAN,
    At the end of Bobby Hurley's junior season, another year that ended with a championship at stake, the most outstanding player of the national collegiate basketball tournament wore a baseball hat backwards. And when Hurley was asked to offer a critique of Christian Laettner's mistake-filled first half in the 71-51 championship-game victory over Michigan, Duke Coach Mike Krzyzewski turned to the player who, as a freshman, had heard the worst of Laettner's blunt criticisms. "Here's your chance, Bobby," Krzyzewski said.
    April 7, 1992
    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...-hurley-duke/2

    Said Laettner: "On every team, all the players don't have to get along. The most important thing a team can do is win."
    "We get along better than we used to on the court," Hurley said last week. "Off the court, he's not one of my better friends."
    http://network.yardbarker.com/nba/ar..._a_jerk/543254
    but nothing topped what Hill confirmed about former Duke teammate Christian Laettner: He’s just a big, pompous jerk.
    According to Hill, Laettner spent his college years bullying his teammates, including former all-everything point guard Bobby Hurley, and would be a perfect candidate for his own reality show. Possibly even a show where he travels through Kentucky making fun of the natives. Hill thinks he’d be a natural for it. Why?
    “Laettner is a little bit of a jerk,” Hill said. “And I mean that in a nice way.”
    DP: Why was he such a jerk, even to his own teammates?
    GH: Everything was a competition. He liked to get under people's skin. We had a great group of guys and we all liked each other, but Laettner was an I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.. He would pick fights with guys, like a big bully. But it would carry over onto the court. And he was so good, so competitive.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke: A Dynasty View Post
    Huh? Do you mean that he had swagger and a strong desire to win? Or that he was nasty and arrogant? Sorry im confused.
    Both and I loved him for it.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    The best response to this is the following:

    National Champion 1991, 1992
    Tournament MOP 1991
    Only player to start 4 Final Fours
    All-time leading scorer NCAA tournament history.

    For all the haters out there, think on that. Or as Dickie V would say "What's not to love!?"
    Im not saying he is not the greatest because I beleive he is without a doubt the greatest but those first 3 you list should not be considered unless you are tuck between 2 players and need a tie breaker. Its like I said greatness can only be seen when you watch them play, not by stats and wins.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    The best response to this is the following:

    National Champion 1991, 1992
    Tournament MOP 1991
    Only player to start 4 Final Fours
    All-time leading scorer NCAA tournament history.

    For all the haters out there, think on that. Or as Dickie V would say "What's not to love!?"
    Agree. I loved Laettner and his nastiness. I think Kyle has similar fire and we saw it when he slapped the ball away from the Clemson player with time winding down when they routed us.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Talking Competitive Fire!

    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    GH: Everything was a competition. He liked to get under people's skin. We had a great group of guys and we all liked each other, but Laettner was an I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.. He would pick fights with guys, like a big bully. But it would carry over onto the court. And he was so good, so competitive.
    As Jacqueline Kennedy remarked about the Kennedy clan, "They would turn oil painting into a competition."

    sagegrouse

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    The best response to this is the following:

    National Champion 1991, 1992
    Tournament MOP 1991
    Only player to start 4 Final Fours
    All-time leading scorer NCAA tournament history.

    For all the haters out there, think on that. Or as Dickie V would say "What's not to love!?"
    Also should note that he was a "stat sheet stuffer". Points, Rebounds, Assists, Blocks... he could do it all.

  18. #58
    Players are judged and always will be judged of how they perform on the biggest stage and no player played better on the biggest stage than Laettner. He was ice water and Grant proved it on Mike and Mike as he co hosted it and talked about what went on in the huddle right before he hit the shot against Kentucky...

    K said, "Grant can you make the pass?" Grant said, " Yes!" K then turned to Christian and said "Christian, can you make the shot?" Grant then said Christian was calm as ever looked at coach and said, "If Grant makes the pass, Ill make the shot!" To then go out and do it, its simply ICE WATER. I get chills thinking about it!

    JJ was great but I cant even put JJ in the top 5. Hurley or Hill would have to be 2nd because Grant Hill put the team on his back his senior year and almost won another championship pertty much by himself and Bobby Hurley hit the biggest shot in Duke basketball history. Heyman, I never got to see him play but I dont think he would even make my top 5.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukeballboy88 View Post
    Players are judged and always will be judged of how they perform on the biggest stage and no player played better on the biggest stage than Laettner. He was ice water and Grant proved it on Mike and Mike as he co hosted it and talked about what went on in the huddle right before he hit the shot against Kentucky...

    K said, "Grant can you make the pass?" Grant said, " Yes!" K then turned to Christian and said "Christian, can you make the shot?" Grant then said Christian was calm as ever looked at coach and said, "If Grant makes the pass, Ill make the shot!" To then go out and do it, its simply ICE WATER. I get chills thinking about it!

    JJ was great but I cant even put JJ in the top 5. Hurley or Hill would have to be 2nd because Grant Hill put the team on his back his senior year and almost won another championship pertty much by himself and Bobby Hurley hit the biggest shot in Duke basketball history. Heyman, I never got to see him play but I dont think he would even make my top 5.
    Given the standards you've outlined, if you look at football players, would you say that Thadeus Lewis was not a great QB because his team didn't win championships? Does the lack of championships reduce the value of his NCAA/ACC records for passing more then 10,000 yards in his career?

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil in the Blue Dress View Post
    Given the standards you've outlined, if you look at football players, would you say that Thadeus Lewis was not a great QB because his team didn't win championships? Does the lack of championships reduce the value of his NCAA/ACC records for passing more then 10,000 yards in his career?
    And Trent Dilfer was a better NFL qb than Dan Marino as well since Marino never won a superbowl.

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