Praise for the Crazies

[dukebluelemur]

Hate to correct you on that, but UNC that year was in February...it wasn't Shane's Senior Night. That was the Maryland game where Boozer broke his foot (we also lost). We played UNC away as the last regular season game, where we absolutely humiliated them.

I actually loved the fist thing. It was my freshman year and I remember after the game was over, a lot of us were crying but everyone had their fists in the air. It was a great moment...it was why I came to Duke. United in victory, united in defeat, all symbols of a fist. Believe me, I had two fists in the air in the closing seconds of our last game that season on April 2, 2001...I had tears too. But they were tears of joy and fists of exultation.

You're right, I had my UNC games switched. I was there on the floor too. It wasn't so much the fist bit that irked me but the silence part... asking the crazies to be quiet any time but duke FTs is not a good plan. You'll never get complete silence, and it just makes the other team think the crowds been taken out of the game.

[airowe]

i think the big groups thing was perhaps the best idea ever...well...since the registration fiasco at least :P

What's the big groups thing?

[Cell-R]

Coach K again praised the crowd for their efforts tonight in the postgame comments. "Great crowd for a Tuesday". Let's keep it up! Nice job everybody!

And considering it was Freshman night...

[dukebsbll14]

And considering it was Freshman night...

There was also a line monitor trying to get everyone (especially in the front) to be loud and go crazy, and on our side to heckle Miami. I'd say we did a pretty good job. Julian couldn't look at us without laughing...or sweating like Gary Williams

Me: Hey Julian, are you gonna tweet during the game?
Julian: Yea!

[monkey]

Can you explains why you like the O in the middle of the national anthem? What does it add? Can you explain what particular relevance the letter O has for Duke University Men's Basketball Team, not one word of which includes the letter O? Can you see how many could feel that the national anthem deserves a certain amount of reverence and that a graduate of the United States Military Academy might not appreciate turning the anthem into a look-at-me-display? I've never once heard the O without hearing it following by a barrage of aren't we-cute giggling. Is the National Anthem supposed to be cute?

It's not like there aren't plenty of other opportunites for having fun. So, why not take off 90 seconds?

Hmmm. Well, explaining to someone why you like or don't something that is arbitrary is a bit like explaining why you find something funny - either you do or you don't. I happen to like or at least not mind the tradition which has been going on at least 15 years - it personalizes the national anthem so to speak and personally don't find it insulting to the anthem or the country (as I would for someone deciding not to stand, not take their hat off, etc. which are also personal preferences, protected by freedom of speech). I would guess that based on the above you would disagree with me, which is ok too.

I had always assumed the "O" was a reference to the number of victories the opponent could expect while playing the Devils that evening, but it seems like others can offer more as to the history of the chant than I can based on looking at the boards.

I can certainly appreciate the point about reverence. I would disagree that the "O" symbolizes a "look-at-me" attitude, especially as the action is taken, generally, as a group and not, IMO, done in order to draw attention to the specific persons doing the chant, if it can be called that.

As for fun, while I certainly respect your view point, since I personally don't think there is anything wrong with people chanting one particular word of the national anthem (i.e., it's disrespectful), it's hard for me to say that they shouldn't do it. Note that I would also see a distinction between the anthem played at a sporting event and a more solemn occasion.

Lastly, with respect to K and his military background, I have no problem with him expressing his displeasure with the chant generally. What I do have a problem with is the more general notion of him controlling what the cheers are in Cameron (perhaps subject to particularly ugly behavior/vulgarity). I think Coach K himself occupies a position of authority in the minds of the 18-22 year old undergraduates. That position should not be taken lightly and such a figure telling students not to say certain things can be inappropriate. I do see it as a freedom of speech issue.

[flyingdutchdevil]

While I've never liked the "O" because I really don't understand it's history or relevance to Duke (it's an Orioles thing, right?), I don't find it at all disrespectful. Even though I'm not American, if a similar thing was done to the Dutch national anthem, I wouldn't take offense to it, especially if a community, such as CIS, is participating in the action.

What I find very disrespectful is when people don't take hats off during the anthem. Whenever I was at games, I would also take my hat off and encourage those around me to take it off as well. I guess it's just a matter of how you've grown up with national anthems.

[jimsumner]

Let me make a couple of final points about the national anthem and I'll move on.

Monkey makes the point that the O is a collective effort and therefore not a look-at-me exercise. I don't think those are mutually exclusive. I've seen a number of performers try to fool the Crazies, hold the last note before "Oh", speed up the tempo, slow down the tempo, whatever. Everytime this happens, they look at the Crazies and grin, the Crazies look at them and laugh. The whole thing has a definite look-at-me vibe. Or maybe it's look at us.

I hear the anthem from a position right in front of the students. Maybe this isn't apparent upstairs and I'm sure it isn't on TV. But every single time the O is chanted, it's followed by a fit of the giggles, some students, some non-students downstairs, visitors who aren't sure what to think. You'd think it was a performance of A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum.

I probably hear the National Anthem performed live 150 times a year. Maybe more. I go to lots of games. I have no particular affection for the song itself. I'd prefer something easier to sing, something less militaristic. But I don't think Congress is going to declare God Bless America or This Land is Your Land the new national anthem anytime soon.

But I have developed some preferences. Just sing and/or play the song as written, with the dignity that the context suggests. And, before you ask I cringe inwardly just as much when State students do the same thing for "Red" that the Duke students do for "Oh." I can do without the singers I call American Idol Wannabees, the people who turn the word "free" into an epic journey. When will she run out of breath? Again, look-at-me.

I understand your point about freedom of speech. But, I can't believe that you think that in an universe I've ever visited that Mike Krzyzewski's opinion on the subejct will not or should not carry just a tad more weight than anyone elses. The court is named after him in because of his success and stature. Frankly, I'm surprised this hasn't become an issue sooner. If you're ever at a game and in position to see Krzyzewski, watch his posture during the National Anthem. It may open your eyes.

[DevilBen02]

Getting away from the never ending debate on the "O", I was actually a bit disappointed with the crazies last night against Miami. The energy and enthusiasm was certainly there, but I don't remember any creativity. For instance, after three years, there still isn't a cheer dedicated to Kyle Singler. Maybe I just love nicknames, but I find it incredibly lazy to simply chant "Ky-le Sing-ler" when the guy goes diving into the stands for a loose ball.

Also, there was no recognition for Zoub being in the building (and for that one, I would have loved to hear one more "Zoooub"), and it seemed that half of the student section either didn't know what to do or didn't care when the guy from Miami fouled out (but maybe that one can be attributed to the ignorance of freshmen). Despite those few flaws, though, I will again say that the energy was there. There is always room for improvement, but at least the house was packed on a Tuesday night against an overmatched early-season opponent.

[30scheyer]

Did you not see the "Buckets" poster at the Princeton game referencing Kyle's highlight video on Duke Blue Planet? The student who creates videos for crazietalk.com had it. Perhaps if Kyle had hit more buckets on Tuesday you would have heard more Kyle cheers.
Personally I like the "Kyle Singler" chant with the claps that the Crazies bring out for his hustle.

[jimsumner]

Getting away from the never ending debate on the "O", I was actually a bit disappointed with the crazies last night against Miami. The energy and enthusiasm was certainly there, but I don't remember any creativity. For instance, after three years, there still isn't a cheer dedicated to Kyle Singler. Maybe I just love nicknames, but I find it incredibly lazy to simply chant "Ky-le Sing-ler" when the guy goes diving into the stands for a loose ball.

Also, there was no recognition for Zoub being in the building (and for that one, I would have loved to hear one more "Zoooub"), and it seemed that half of the student section either didn't know what to do or didn't care when the guy from Miami fouled out (but maybe that one can be attributed to the ignorance of freshmen). Despite those few flaws, though, I will again say that the energy was there. There is always room for improvement, but at least the house was packed on a Tuesday night against an overmatched early-season opponent.

I was actually rather fond of the sign reading "Go back to Florida." The Miami, Ohio folks are quite sensitive about the subject. Or, so I'm told.

[Cell-R]

Also, there was no recognition for Zoub being in the building (and for that one, I would have loved to hear one more "Zoooub"), and it seemed that half of the student section either didn't know what to do or didn't care when the guy from Miami fouled out (but maybe that one can be attributed to the ignorance of freshmen).

There was actually a Zoubek chant, maybe you just missed it? He acknowledged the crowd before it got really loud, but a significant portion of the crazies were cheering "Brian Zoubek".

[Reilly]

The “O” is an Orioles thing. And since the poem was penned to commemorate the Battle of Baltimore, maybe a bit of leeway is allowed there for dem who root for da O’s, hon’.

But otherwise, here’s the behavior that the American people, via their elected representatives, under our constitutional democracy, expect for the playing of our national anthem:

36 U.S.C. 301

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...1----000-.html

§ 301. National anthem

(a) Designation.— The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b) Conduct During Playing.— During a rendition of the national anthem—
(1) when the flag is displayed—
(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

[MulletMan]

Getting away from the never ending debate on the "O", I was actually a bit disappointed with the crazies last night against Miami. The energy and enthusiasm was certainly there, but I don't remember any creativity. For instance, after three years, there still isn't a cheer dedicated to Kyle Singler. Maybe I just love nicknames, but I find it incredibly lazy to simply chant "Ky-le Sing-ler" when the guy goes diving into the stands for a loose ball.

Also, there was no recognition for Zoub being in the building (and for that one, I would have loved to hear one more "Zoooub"), and it seemed that half of the student section either didn't know what to do or didn't care when the guy from Miami fouled out (but maybe that one can be attributed to the ignorance of freshmen). Despite those few flaws, though, I will again say that the energy was there. There is always room for improvement, but at least the house was packed on a Tuesday night against an overmatched early-season opponent.

1. There was a Zoub chant followed by the the Zoub with hand Z's... maybe you missed it.
2. Agreed that the nicknames are sad and pathetic. I long for the days of J-Wil Rock You, Who's your Daddy, Du-Du-Du-Du hon and From the Window to Lu-ol!
3. Creativity is at a minimum right now for two reasons, imho. The first is that at early season games, the crowd is often less seasoned and just trying to get into the regular chants. There are few who are confident enough or practiced enough to get a new chant going. This is an old issue. The other issue is a new one... the music being blared over the PA during warmups. Used to be that during warmups the Crazies would communicate with one another and target guys to go after on the opposing team. They would also yell to each other across the court to communicate on new cheers that were being tried or that someone had just come up with on the spot. No more. You can barely hear the person next to you talk. Creativity will continue to suffer going forward because the Crazies can't communicate.

[DevilBen02]

I apologize that I missed the Zoub call-out. I should have known that such an obvious chant would not have been missed

[lpd1982]

Getting away from the never ending debate on the "O", I was actually a bit disappointed with the crazies last night against Miami. The energy and enthusiasm was certainly there, but I don't remember any creativity. For instance, after three years, there still isn't a cheer dedicated to Kyle Singler. Maybe I just love nicknames, but I find it incredibly lazy to simply chant "Ky-le Sing-ler" when the guy goes diving into the stands for a loose ball.

Also, there was no recognition for Zoub being in the building (and for that one, I would have loved to hear one more "Zoooub"), and it seemed that half of the student section either didn't know what to do or didn't care when the guy from Miami fouled out (but maybe that one can be attributed to the ignorance of freshmen). Despite those few flaws, though, I will again say that the energy was there. There is always room for improvement, but at least the house was packed on a Tuesday night against an overmatched early-season opponent.

First, everyone is entitled to an opinion, so there's the nod to that.

Do people who constantly criticize the crazies, and I have been listening to this same whining for 7 years and I'm sure it has been going on longer, realize that Crazies read the board and it is demoralizing? They just lost a great friend, put forth an unbelievable public memorial, are CONSTANTLY tweaking their efforts to appease everyone, to cheer sheet, to not cheer sheet, to be respectful, to make the venue intimidating, to pack the stands for the team and the camera crews, but keep the traditions of fan rigor part of the experience. I think calling them lazy and spreading untruths about what was done and not done does a disservice to their efforts. Since Coach K says they are part of the TEAM, we should treat them as such, with respect.

[flyingdutchdevil]

First, everyone is entitled to an opinion, so there's the nod to that.

Do people who constantly criticize the crazies, and I have been listening to this same whining for 7 years and I'm sure it has been going on longer, realize that Crazies read the board and it is demoralizing? They just lost a great friend, put forth an unbelievable public memorial, are CONSTANTLY tweaking their efforts to appease everyone, to cheer sheet, to not cheer sheet, to be respectful, to make the venue intimidating, to pack the stands for the team and the camera crews, but keep the traditions of fan rigor part of the experience. I think calling them lazy and spreading untruths about what was done and not done does a disservice to their efforts. Since Coach K says they are part of the TEAM, we should treat them as such, with respect.

Welcome to DBR.

My biggest pet peeve of this forum is the continuous criticism of the student body. Unfortunately, there's no way around that.

Anyway, for those CC reading this, continue being awesome. You've been that way ever since I started following the Blue Devils.

[DevilBen02]

First, everyone is entitled to an opinion, so there's the nod to that.

Do people who constantly criticize the crazies, and I have been listening to this same whining for 7 years and I'm sure it has been going on longer, realize that Crazies read the board and it is demoralizing? They just lost a great friend, put forth an unbelievable public memorial, are CONSTANTLY tweaking their efforts to appease everyone, to cheer sheet, to not cheer sheet, to be respectful, to make the venue intimidating, to pack the stands for the team and the camera crews, but keep the traditions of fan rigor part of the experience. I think calling them lazy and spreading untruths about what was done and not done does a disservice to their efforts. Since Coach K says they are part of the TEAM, we should treat them as such, with respect.

Wow. A number of people corrected me for the fact that Zoub was recognized either when I wasn't listening or before I arrived, and for that I apologized for my oversight. I was not trying to "spread untruths". I also specifically commented that the energy of the students and fullness of the student section were to be applauded.

I probably should have worded my post more constructively, but my intent was merely to comment that for all of the praise that the students deserve, they can always get better. As you note, the Crazies have a great ability to adapt, which is one of the great attributes of this group. Unfortunately, it is one of the constants of this board that alums remember favorite cheers from the past all too fondly and are disappointed when they die. Hopefully, students are not demoralized by such griping as you suggest, but rather are motivated to create new cheers and traditions that can impress even us old whiners.

Finally, I'm sorry, but chanting "Ky-le Sing-ler" is lazy, just as it was lazy to chant "La-nce Tho-mas" last year, which was just as lazy as when we chanted "Ca-sey Sand-ers" and "Mike Dun-lea-vy" when I was in the stands ten years ago. I have always hated these kinds of cheers, so maybe that speaks more to my own problems than to the current crop of Crazies. Still, if I'm not the only one that would rather hear something more personal, I challenge the current students to prove me wrong.

[Jim3k]

Hate to correct you Jim, but its at "Oh, say does that star spangled banner yet wave,"

Jim Sumner is correct. Francis Scott Key's original lyrics start with "O", not "Oh."

http://americanhistory.si.edu/starsp...he-lyrics.aspx

I'm sure that the poetic usage got dumbed down at some point, but the original version was "O say can..." etc.

[Bluedog]

National anthem. At the words "Oh, say can you see," the Crazies make an O with their arms and yell "O."

This originated with the Baltimore Orioles, also known as the Os. Just as disrespectful, IMO, but makes some sense in that context. In a Duke context, it makes absolutely no sense. And it's not even close to being original. I've never had anyone give me a coherent explanation of why this is necessary or desirable for Duke.

Hate to correct you Jim, but its at "Oh, say does that star spangled banner yet wave,"

Jim Sumner is correct. Francis Scott Key's original lyrics start with "O", not "Oh."

http://americanhistory.si.edu/starsp...he-lyrics.aspx

I'm sure that the poetic usage got dumbed down at some point, but the original version was "O say can..." etc.

uh no wasn't saying there was a difference between "O" and "Oh". He merely was pointing out that it's not the beginning of the song that the Crazies do the O gesture. It's near the end so it's definitely NOT during "O say can..." It's during "O, say does that star..." portion.

[Jim3k]

uh no wasn't saying there was a difference between "O" and "Oh". He merely was pointing out that it's not the beginning of the song that the Crazies do the O gesture. It's near the end so it's definitely NOT during "O say can..." It's during "O, say does that star..." portion.

Key used "O" at that point, too, so I don't see what "Oh" has to do with it. If the CCs aren't making an arm-signal "O", what are they doing? (BTW, I haven't seen a home game since 1998 (Fairfield), and they did the arm-signal "O" at the beginning, then.) I thought it was dumb, already understood the Oriole reference and couldn't see the point.

Making it into an "Oh" has even less relevance.