Duke Identity 2010/11- Big or Small?

[Newton_14]

This seems to be the most heated topic of the off season, so I figured it was high time for a thread of its own.

Last season K said our identity was Defense-Rebounding with a 2 Big lineup most of the time and Kyle at the Small Forward (3) position. Going into the 2010/11 season the stable of big men is solid with 4 guys (Miles, Mason, Ryan, Josh).

However the stable of guards/wings is super large with 5 guys in (Kyrie, Nolan, Seth, Andre, Tyler).

Kyle is the hybrid with the skill set to fit into either group. So the question is which group will Kyle spend the most time in? Now, if Kyle is at the 4 with Andre at the 3, then I would call that a medium size line up. However most of those arguing K will go small are basing that on a line up of Kyrie, Nolan, Seth, Kyle, 1 Big.

So for the poll, the actual question revolves around how many minutes the trio of Kyrie, Nolan, and Seth play together?

[4decadedukie]

Why wouldn't Coach K execute the powerful option of big AND small, defendant on the individual game's circumstances?

[Jderf]

Why wouldn't Coach K execute the powerful option of big AND small, defendant on the individual game's circumstances?

Certainly, he would adapt to the abilidty, the size, and the speed of the team we are playing. But I think the point here is debating which we'll see the most of.

[Newton_14]

Certainly, he would adapt to the abilidty, the size, and the speed of the team we are playing. But I think the point here is debating which we'll see the most of.

Correct.

Even though I have argued that Kyle will spend most of his time at the 3 with 2 bigs on the floor, I have also argued that K will absolutely utilize all of his options and go with 3 guards and Kyle as needed. For sure he will. I just feel more often than not Kyle will be at the 3.

[dukebluelemur]

K has over and over showed that he plays the best players, regardless of perceived standard position lineups. I think Curry, Smith, and Irving are all better than either Plum.

[Big Pappa]

This seems to be the most heated topic of the off season, so I figured it was high time for a thread of its own.

Last season K said our identity was Defense-Rebounding with a 2 Big lineup most of the time and Kyle at the Small Forward (3) position. Going into the 2010/11 season the stable of big men is solid with 4 guys (Miles, Mason, Ryan, Josh).

However the stable of guards/wings is super large with 5 guys in (Kyrie, Nolan, Seth, Andre, Tyler).

Kyle is the hybrid with the skill set to fit into either group. So the question is which group will Kyle spend the most time in? Now, if Kyle is at the 4 with Andre at the 3, then I would call that a medium size line up. However most of those arguing K will go small are basing that on a line up of Kyrie, Nolan, Seth, Kyle, 1 Big.

So for the poll, the actual question revolves around how many minutes the trio of Kyrie, Nolan, and Seth play together?

Well since every single thread somehow morphs into this topic, albeit usually because of "cocka-something", I am glad that it finally has a thread all to it's own. Good work Booz.

I voted for the 3-2 simply because it makes the most sense. There are many reasons for this, but the primary one is height. Take a look at the lineup against the projected starters for UNC:

KI 6'2" - Larry Drew II 6'2"
Nolan 6'1" -Strickland or Bullock 6'3" or 6'6"
Seth 6'1" - Harrison Barnes 6'8"
Kyle 6'8" - John Henson 6'10"
Mason or Miles 6'10" - Tyler Zeller 7'0"

It just doesn't work.

[Osiagledknarf]

Well since every single thread somehow morphs into this topic, albeit usually because of "cocka-something", I am glad that it finally has a thread all to it's own. Good work Booz.

I voted for the 3-2 simply because it makes the most sense. There are many reasons for this, but the primary one is height. Take a look at the lineup against the projected starters for UNC:

KI 6'2" - Larry Drew II 6'2"
Nolan 6'1" -Strickland or Bullock 6'3" or 6'6"
Seth 6'1" - Harrison Barnes 6'8"
Kyle 6'8" - John Henson 6'10"
Mason or Miles 6'10" - Tyler Zeller 7'0"

It just doesn't work.

I completely agree here. Against most teams in the ACC this would be a very small lineup to matchup defensively. I do think though in this matchup it would be something like this:

KI on Drew
Nolan on Bullock
Singler on Barnes
Miles on Henson
Mason on Zeller

This looks a lot better from a defensive matchup standpoint.

[MisterRoddy]

Well since every single thread somehow morphs into this topic, albeit usually because of "cocka-something", I am glad that it finally has a thread all to it's own. Good work Booz.

I voted for the 3-2 simply because it makes the most sense. There are many reasons for this, but the primary one is height. Take a look at the lineup against the projected starters for UNC:

KI 6'2" - Larry Drew II 6'2"
Nolan 6'1" -Strickland or Bullock 6'3" or 6'6"
Seth 6'1" - Harrison Barnes 6'8"
Kyle 6'8" - John Henson 6'10"
Mason or Miles 6'10" - Tyler Zeller 7'0"

It just doesn't work.

agree with this post but I just thought I'd correct you on the heights.

Nolan is 6'2
Seth has grown to 6'2.
Kyrie's is debatable as he has been listed anywhere from 6'1 to 6'3 but when it comes to our players I choose to stick with the higher numbers so I'll go with 6'3.

[mattman91]

In my opinion, Kyle definately spends the majority of his pt at small forward.
Kyle has already shaped his body into a small forwards body. He didnt come back for his senior year to play power forward when everyone knows his NBA position will be the "3". I do think however, Kyle will play a few minutes here and there in the post. In foul trouble situations he may be called upon to bail out one of the plumlees.

I think the real question marks are Ryan Kelly and Josh Hairston. Not that I dont have faith in them, but both tend to be perimeter oriented. Hopefully they can both bulk up and contribute down low right away. In order for Kyle to stay at his natural SF position, atleast one of the two will have to give resting time to Miles and Mason.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

In my opinion, Kyle definately spends the majority of his pt at small forward.
Kyle has already shaped his body into a small forwards body. He didnt come back for his senior year to play power forward when everyone knows his NBA position will be the "3". I do think however, Kyle will play a few minutes here and there in the post. In foul trouble situations he may be called upon to bail out one of the plumlees.

I think the real question marks are Ryan Kelly and Josh Hairston. Not that I dont have faith in them, but both tend to be perimeter oriented. Hopefully they can both bulk up and contribute down low right away. In order for Kyle to stay at his natural SF position, atleast one of the two will have to give resting time to Miles and Mason.

Thank you! I have thought the same thing since he announced he would come back. We still have good size down low with the Plumlee's and I DO think that Josh and/or Ryan will give us good minutes when one of them is in foul trouble so Kyle can stay mainly on the perimeter. Kyle is not going to play at the 4 at all in the NBA and playing with a great backcourt, this is a great opportunity for Kyle to showcase his skills in a different (more pro style) offense. I think Kyle will only play the 4 in rare occasions or if God forbid, there is an injury in the frontcourt.

[mattman91]

Thank you! I have thought the same thing since he announced he would come back. We still have good size down low with the Plumlee's and I DO think that Josh and/or Ryan will give us good minutes when one of them is in foul trouble so Kyle can stay mainly on the perimeter. Kyle is not going to play at the 4 at all in the NBA and playing with a great backcourt, this is a great opportunity for Kyle to showcase his skills in a different (more pro style) offense. I think Kyle will only play the 4 in rare occasions or if God forbid, there is an injury in the frontcourt.

Right on.

I do not see us subbing two bigs at a time in Josh and Ryan for the Plumlees. last year we subbed the Plumlees in together for Lance and Brian. I don't think it would be wise to throw Ryan and Josh in at the same time.

[Bob Green]

Right on.

...last year we subbed the Plumlees in together for Lance and Brian.

Well this isn't entirely accurate seeing as Miles Plumlee and Lance Thomas started the first 24 games of the season and Brian Zoubek came off the bench. During the stretch run, which is obviously the most significant part of the season, the Plumlees did sub in together. Perhaps I'm guilty of nitpicking here, however, I believe too many posters on DBR are either forgetting or not giving proper credence to the fact Miles Plumlee has started 26 games during the first two years of his career.

[ACCBBallFan]

Was not a poll option but my actual expectation is 20 MPG at WF an 10 MPG at PF/WF2. SO I went with the 25 min at SF option.

[roywhite]

Good topic and the 25 minute marker is a good way to define what will be the nature of the team.

At this point, I have more confidence that the perimeter guys including new additions Seth and Kyrie and a developing Dre will play well. I like the 4 bigs, but see some chance that one or more won't have enough game (or have persistent foul problems) that might limit their court time.

Still, I think a productive lineup of 2 bigs, Kyle, and 2 guards gives us the best chance to win, so I voted for 25 minutes plus for that grouping.

[mattman91]

Well this isn't entirely accurate seeing as Miles Plumlee and Lance Thomas started the first 24 games of the season and Brian Zoubek came off the bench. During the stretch run, which is obviously the most significant part of the season, the Plumlees did sub in together. Perhaps I'm guilty of nitpicking here, however, I believe too many posters on DBR are either forgetting or not giving proper credence to the fact Miles Plumlee has started 26 games during the first two years of his career.

You're right, thanks for pointing that out. However, from the Maryland game on (when we started playing to our full potential) we subbed the Plumless for Brian and Lance. I do believe that Mason and Miles will be excellent starters.

[PhillyDuke]

If the Plumlees come correct, which I expect them to, they will both play. The reality is that someone is going to have to "take one for the team", meaning that he will be asked to come off the bench. The ones who I feel will be asked to make this sacrifice are Nolan or Seth.

If Seth is better than Nolan (and I think he is), will coach K start him? That's the central question. One of them will be asked to sit.

[Kedsy]

If the Plumlees come correct, which I expect them to, they will both play. The reality is that someone is going to have to "take one for the team", meaning that he will be asked to come off the bench. The ones who I feel will be asked to make this sacrifice are Nolan or Seth.

If Seth is better than Nolan (and I think he is), will coach K start him? That's the central question. One of them will be asked to sit.

Nolan will start. Seth will still get a lot of minutes.

[Duvall]

If Seth is better than Nolan (and I think he is)

Okay. Why?

[NovaScotian]

agree with this post but I just thought I'd correct you on the heights.

Nolan is 6'2
Seth has grown to 6'2.
Kyrie's is debatable as he has been listed anywhere from 6'1 to 6'3 but when it comes to our players I choose to stick with the higher numbers so I'll go with 6'3.

really? is this like how demarcus shot up to 6'4" by his senior year, when he wasn't even 6'1" at the combine? please, let's not trust the higher numbers.

[Jackson]

There is no way that Duke will have 3 starters under 6'3". Both Plumlees will start in the front court with Kyle at the 3. Kyrie and Nolan will start at guard and Seth will probably be the 6th man. I am anxious to see how Andre will develop, and hopefully he doesn't become the odd man out in the rotation. Wondering how Ryan and Josh compete for the first big man sub off the bench. Will be interesting in a good kind of way.