UNC early season form

[whereinthehellami]

Zeller was the only heel without a TO. 9 heels had TOs. Roy might be trying to fit a round peg into a square heel yet again with his Xs and Os.

There appears to be chemistry issues again. Some posters on IC have brought it up. They didn't play with much intensity and went down pretty easy. MN tried to give it away at the end but Roy was already on the bus backing it up. The heels don't seem to be a very close team and that could get worse as the year goes on.

I didn't think MN was a very good team or they had a bad game. Poor FT shooting, more TOs than I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this., and they only shot ~ 25% from 3. This loss a red flag for UNC.

Barnes is delicate. I also saw him pass up some shots at the end, kind of like he didn't want to be the guy. That is another red flag for me. He had a terrible night and he let it get to him. Something to keep an eye on.

[Kedsy]

1) Yes.
2) Not sure that comparing a person to a cartoon character is really equivalent to comparing a person to vermin.

ETA: That said, there does seem to be a real difference in the way Duke fans talk about Roy Williams and the way UNC fans at IC tend to talk about Mike Krzyzewski. Duke fans on message boards tend to put a negative gloss on comments and actions by Williams, admittedly to the point of absurdity. But IC posters have an unfortunate habit of inventing conspiracy theories about Krzyzewski out of whole cloth. It's bizarre, and it's much worse.

OK, like I said I've never gone over there. The way some posters here ridicule Roy Williams (as you say, to the point of absurdity) I just thought it was funny that someone said the IC posters are "like children" because they called K names.

And I hear you about the relative difference between comparing someone to a cartoon character (or a used car salesman) vs. comparing someone to a rodent, but I'm not sure I see that big a distinction. When you call someone a name you are either doing it in jest or doing it to be mean. If one fan base's intent was jesting and the other being mean, I'd agree there was a difference. But since it seems to me that both sets of fans are being mean, the idea that one epithet is meaner or worse than the other is not that persuasive, at least not to me.

[Taco]

The UNC/Minn game was on ESPNU, so how come I can't watch a replay on ESPN3? Sounds like I missed a good one

[pfrduke]

I just don't see how Roy can justify starting LD II over Marshall anymore. LD II is a wreck and Marshall just seems to get it done much better. I get the feeling that Roy was sorta extending a chance to Drew out of the gates, but Marshall has been so much better that I think Marshall will start with LD II starting also, or on the bench.
Bullock has also surprised me a bit. I thought DexLesterlie McStrickonald would play much worse than they are.
Harrison Barnes needs to get his straightened out or else this is gonna be another NIT team, which is perfectly fine with me.

Just to add fuel to this fire:

Kendall Marshall: 124-83, +41
Larry Drew II: 122-113, +9

Drew has been last or second to last in +/- in 2 of the 3 games. The team has been much better, thus far, with Marshall on the court.

In short, please keep starting LDII.

[yancem]

i know, telling his team that they need to be more aggressive on offense. What an idiot!!! I mean, isn't he the coach? Isn't he able to check into the game and take a few shots?

If it rains and Roy says "its raining" you guys would jump all over that

There's big difference between "we need to be more aggressive" and "I can't get out on the floor". The first is inclusive of the whole team (coaches and players) while the second separates Ol'Roy from the team and says "if I could play, being aggressive wouldn't be a problem".

[dchen09]

The UNC/Minn game was on ESPNU, so how come I can't watch a replay on ESPN3? Sounds like I missed a good one

ESPNU and ESPN3 are 2 different things. Sometimes they'll show a game on both channels but sometimes they won't. In this case they didn't show it on ESPN3 so you won't be able to find the replay there.

[FireOgilvie]

OK, like I said I've never gone over there. The way some posters here ridicule Roy Williams (as you say, to the point of absurdity) I just thought it was funny that someone said the IC posters are "like children" because they called K names.

And I hear you about the relative difference between comparing someone to a cartoon character (or a used car salesman) vs. comparing someone to a rodent, but I'm not sure I see that big a distinction. When you call someone a name you are either doing it in jest or doing it to be mean. If one fan base's intent was jesting and the other being mean, I'd agree there was a difference. But since it seems to me that both sets of fans are being mean, the idea that one epithet is meaner or worse than the other is not that persuasive, at least not to me.

If you haven't gone over to Inside Carolina, you won't be able to really fathom how horrible it is. It's like a sky blue Internet Klan meeting. It's ugly.

[Waynne]

They know that if K were Coaching them, they would not lose games like this... lack of focus and effort..

Carolina has elite talent and should be a very good team this year. But last year and so far this year the coaching has been...awful. Coach Williams' game plan works great when Raymond Felton or Ty Lawson are running the point, but not so well with the current team. For reasons that are incomprehensible to me, Coach W cannot seem to devise a system that capitalizes on the considerable talents of the players he has. The offense seems to be based on Harrison Barnes going one on one at every opportunity, and the defense has been very uninspiring.

I expect UNC will have a fine season, finish second or third in the ACC, and win a game or two in the NCAAs. They certainly have the talent to do all of that. But the coaching staff is going to have to make some serious adjustments for it to happen. If K was coaching this team I think it would be a top 10 team all year and it would not have lost to Minnesota.

BTW, it is a little hard for me to feel sorry for Barnes. He has taken every opportunity to hype himself. He wants to be a businessman and obviously understands the importance of creating a brand. When one tries to make himself into a brand he creates a lot of expectations. If those expectations don't pan out he should expect criticism. Having said that, I expect Barnes will have a stellar season this year and be an excellent pro. He certainly has the talent and may simply have to overcome the fact he is playing in what appears to be a dysfunctional system.

[Taco]

ESPNU and ESPN3 are 2 different things. Sometimes they'll show a game on both channels but sometimes they won't. In this case they didn't show it on ESPN3 so you won't be able to find the replay there.

Huh. I was otherwise deposed for the Miami, FL of OH game which was on ESPNU, but was glad to find that I could watch the whole thing on ESPN3 later that night. I guess based on that one experience I assumed that everything the Worldwide Leader aired would eventually show up to be replayed on ESPN3 but I guess now that I think about it that would be a little too convenient. Oh well.

[SuperTurkey]

I was otherwise deposed

Being deposed is a totally valid reason to miss some basketball games.

[oldnavy]

OK, like I said I've never gone over there. The way some posters here ridicule Roy Williams (as you say, to the point of absurdity) I just thought it was funny that someone said the IC posters are "like children" because they called K names.

And I hear you about the relative difference between comparing someone to a cartoon character (or a used car salesman) vs. comparing someone to a rodent, but I'm not sure I see that big a distinction. When you call someone a name you are either doing it in jest or doing it to be mean. If one fan base's intent was jesting and the other being mean, I'd agree there was a difference. But since it seems to me that both sets of fans are being mean, the idea that one epithet is meaner or worse than the other is not that persuasive, at least not to me.

I am perhaps the biggest critic of Roy Williams on this site (and yes, probably absurd at times) yet I try not to call him names based on his appearance. To me that is silly, and takes away from any valid point you are trying to make, much like using profanity IMO. I slip sometimes and use profanity, and I am sure that I have called Roy "Huck" or some derivative of that before. Let me just say that I am sorry for that and I will refrain from doing it in the future. Now I will continue to use the term Ol Roy because he has referred to himself in that manner and it is descriptive of his personality and actions not his looks.

A person in general cannot help the physical appearance they are born with, but they can help what they say and what they do.

[Lord Ash]

A person in general cannot help the physical appearance they are born with, but they can help what they say and what they do.

And whether or not they dress up like a magician at their Midnight Madness event.

[ncexnyc]

And whether or not they dress up like a magician at their Midnight Madness event.

So that's what happened. He cast a spell and made all that talent disappear.

[shoutingncu]

I emailed my N.C. State friends after today's loss and said that at least our basketball team isn't overrated.

Needless to say, what a terrible two day stretch. I don't want to go back and find the posts in this thread that I'll respond to, but one or two mentioned that the rivalry isn't fun with Carolina stinking it up. I believe Moonpie appropriately responded to that notion, but I will, too... Carolina survived 8 - 20, we will survive this. And even if the worst happens, Carolina responded to '91 - '92, and will respond to whatever happens this season, as well.

And I've said this numerous times as it seems to come up often, but comparing the relative civility of DBR to IC is like comparing... well... any coach to the success of Anson Dorrance.

As for the game itself, congrats to Tubby. I have criticized him on this board before, believing him to be a good but not great coach. Maybe I'm still right, and he just beat a good but not great team.

The one aspect I haven't heard people mention in this thread was the foul trouble for Zeller. I'd be curious to see his plus minus for the game, as until Henson finds more offense, it seems that Zeller and Barnes will need to be options one and two. When one is shooting an 0-fer and the other is riding the bench, it's going to be a long night.

[quota]

I said it back when Al posted his pre-season ACC preview, and I'll say it again. I don't think Carolina's "talent" can overcome their chemistry issues.

[roywhite]

Question about Zeller:

I heard Hubert Davis (whom I generally respect as an analyst) say that Zeller was the fastest big man in the country from end line to end line. Is that true? Honestly, I hadn't thought of Zeller as unusually fast for his size.

[78Devil]

I can't believe how many people are drawing conclusions from one bad game for UNC. First of all, we live in glass houses and it will be our turn at some point. More importantly, I am supersticious, and concluding that the Heels are on their way to another underachieving season at this point seems to me to be begging fate to slap us in the face.

Let's just concentrate on Duke, and the rest will follow.

[CDu]

Question about Zeller:

I heard Hubert Davis (whom I generally respect as an analyst) say that Zeller was the fastest big man in the country from end line to end line. Is that true? Honestly, I hadn't thought of Zeller as unusually fast for his size.

Well, I don't know if he's literally the fastest big man in the country end line to end line as I doubt there's been an official measurement of such things. But he is noted for being a very good big man in terms of running the floor. Davis just fell prey to the classic case of commentator hyperbole (where if a player does a particular thing well, he automatically does it better than anyone else).

But yeah, one of Zeller's strengths is his ability to run the floor. If the team was better at getting transition opportunities, he would be a real factor there.

[CDu]

I can't believe how many people are drawing conclusions from one bad game for UNC. First of all, we live in glass houses and it will be our turn at some point. More importantly, I am supersticious, and concluding that the Heels are on their way to another underachieving season at this point seems to me to be begging fate to slap us in the face.

Let's just concentrate on Duke, and the rest will follow.

I agree - it's definitely fun to see them lose (this has been a good weekend for that!) but making conclusive statements about the team based on one game in November in which their best offensive player had possibly the worst night of his basketball life is a bit of a reach.

[dukeballboy88]

I have to admit, I snooped around on the IC boards and found that most UNC fans think this team is going 28-2.