UNC early season form

[Gthoma2a]

They beat Lipscomb, but it was by no means a route. Harrison did okay. He scored 14, had a block, and two assists, but I don't get ESPN's description of the game. "Barnes scores 14 to lift UNC in Opener." This doesn't seem accurate. His stat line is good for a freshman, but if anyone lifted UNC, it would be Henson with 17 boards, seven blocked shots, a steal, and ten points. Zeller had 15 points, a block, two steals, and seven rebounds, but these performances don't amount to Harrison's? The whole team took advantage of a team that couldn't compete at the big positions (Knox seems like he will be easily foul prone, but the others are pretty good). Harrison even had a guy who was 6'3 guarding him for most of the game.

Don't get me wrong, I understand it is the name that is on the UNC faithful's tongues, but doesn't it seem like if Kyrie got 8 points, 5 assists, three steals, but Kyle or Nolan had better numbers, they would get the headline? In one of their videos, they gave him an extra two points to make him sound better. I just find it backwards. Anyone else have thoughts on this stuff?

Oh, and I forgot to mention, Josh Slater (PG) was able to put 21 up on UNC, so I don't see much trouble coming our way with with any of our guards attacking.

[Newton_14]

I only saw the first half but they were certainly not overwhelming. From reading the article on WRAL, they let Lipscomb stay in it most of the 2nd half. I doubt there are the 8th best team in the country at this point.

I am interested to see how they look when the competition stiffens. The 2009 version of the heels would have run that Lipscomb team out of the gym. I thought they looked better than last year but certainly nothing close to their dominant teams from the past.

[loran16]

Drew looked unimpressive, to be sure. But the newcomers (Bullock in paritcular, but Marshall and Barnes too) actually made an impact, and Henson boarded like a beast.

Like most teams, they'll get better...and the fact that the freshmen could contribute gives them hope it won't be like last year.

Also, Lipscomb isn't supposed to be terrible.

Listen, the UNC of old would blow out these guys. But this is basically an all-new UNC Team. Not UNC 09 (A veteran team).

[DevilHorns]

They beat Lipscomb, but it was by no means a route. Harrison did okay. He scored 14, had a block, and two assists, but I don't get ESPN's description of the game. "Barnes scores 14 to lift UNC in Opener." This doesn't seem accurate. His stat line is good for a freshman, but if anyone lifted UNC, it would be Henson with 17 boards, seven blocked shots, a steal, and ten points. Zeller had 15 points, a block, two steals, and seven rebounds, but these performances don't amount to Harrison's? The whole team took advantage of a team that couldn't compete at the big positions (Knox seems like he will be easily foul prone, but the others are pretty good). Harrison even had a guy who was 6'3 guarding him for most of the game.

Don't get me wrong, I understand it is the name that is on the UNC faithful's tongues, but doesn't it seem like if Kyrie got 8 points, 5 assists, three steals, but Kyle or Nolan had better numbers, they would get the headline? In one of their videos, they gave him an extra two points to make him sound better. I just find it backwards. Anyone else have thoughts on this stuff?

Oh, and I forgot to mention, Josh Slater (PG) was able to put 21 up on UNC, so I don't see much trouble coming our way with with any of our guards attacking.

Just peeked at the boxscore and saw the game highlight on ESPN. They are really trying to boost Barnes into a world-beater. They showed highlights of him for 30 seconds, nothing on Zeller, little on Henson, though they did say Henson had the most complete game at the wrap-up on the score screen.

I think most UNC fans would say they are disappointed with his performance against a cupcake team. Though Barnes can't stop what the media writes about him, in the end, his expectations are rocket high and as a NPOY candidate and 1st team preseason All-American, he's going to have a lot of pressure to deliver without a freshman learning curve.

His response to the inter-squad scrimmage and his poor performance in the last exhibition game was to stay in the gym and practices for hours alone in the deep night. I like the work ethic and the focus, but I think the young man may implode if he putting this level of pressure on himself before things really start rolling. The UNC fanbase is not forgiving. Though his performance wasn't necessarily poor today, it definitely wasn't first team All-American worthy.

[Lord Ash]

The numbers certainly don't blow me away, but give Carolina time to gel a bit. Lipscomb is not a terrible team, despite not being a "big name." The expectations for Barnes were sky-high, possibly unfairly so, and the Heels have a LOT to "repair," so all things considering... however, I do think they will end up in the lower Top 25 by the end of the year, and NOT in the top half, as they are right now.

Also... just because this is a Duke forum and I am a bit touchy... there is no "e" in "rout."

[Gthoma2a]

The numbers certainly don't blow me away, but give Carolina time to gel a bit. Lipscomb is not a terrible team, despite not being a "big name." The expectations for Barnes were sky-high, possibly unfairly so, and the Heels have a LOT to "repair," so all things considering... however, I do think they will end up in the lower Top 25 by the end of the year, and NOT in the top half, as they are right now.

Also... just because this is a Duke forum and I am a bit touchy... there is no "e" in "rout."

My bad! The accuracy of my spelling falls as the day wears on.

[Lord Ash]

And as the drinks are finished, I am sure... Happy Friday Night!

[Deslok]

Definitely by no means an overwhelming win. As the season opens, I kind of see UNC as what might be an exemplar of what Ken Pomeroy referred to recently in a blog post of his. Though his reasoning might be a bit different, I think at the end of the year, UNC's actual rating/worth as a team may be much closer to their current ranking than what their end of the year ranking may end up at. Relying significantly on freshmen, I expect it to be an up and down season, which will leave them borderline top 25 in February and March(though of course, the tendency of poll voters to overrank UNC, like Duke and some others, may alleviate this issue). But by that time, presuming that Williams does a good job with this team, the pieces will gel together, the freshmen will have adjusted to life in college and the differences in the game at this level, and will be a real threat come tourney time. Not that I think they'll go fab 5 or anything, but rather I know as a top seed I wouldn't want to see them in my section of the bracket, because while they might go out early for a number of reasons, they have the talent to match up with anyone. As a result, the preseason poll may better reflect how far in the NCAAs they might go, as opposed to the end of season poll.

[Gthoma2a]

Definitely by no means an overwhelming win. As the season opens, I kind of see UNC as what might be an exemplar of what Ken Pomeroy referred to recently in a blog post of his. Though his reasoning might be a bit different, I think at the end of the year, UNC's actual rating/worth as a team may be much closer to their current ranking than what their end of the year ranking may end up at. Relying significantly on freshmen, I expect it to be an up and down season, which will leave them borderline top 25 in February and March(though of course, the tendency of poll voters to overrank UNC, like Duke and some others, may alleviate this issue). But by that time, presuming that Williams does a good job with this team, the pieces will gel together, the freshmen will have adjusted to life in college and the differences in the game at this level, and will be a real threat come tourney time. Not that I think they'll go fab 5 or anything, but rather I know as a top seed I wouldn't want to see them in my section of the bracket, because while they might go out early for a number of reasons, they have the talent to match up with anyone. As a result, the preseason poll may better reflect how far in the NCAAs they might go, as opposed to the end of season poll.

They have the talent to match up with anyone? I kind of think differently. I think their guards are going to remain a major liability. Kendall has the best head, but he doesn't have the athleticism, and we know how the others respond to pressure. Tonight, they gave up 21 to a moderately good point guard (we have All-American talent for our guard positions) Harrison is pretty good, but I don't see him as a match for Kyle. I think Zeller, and Henson are very good, but Knox would simply be in there to foul against our backcourt. The problem that they would run into with their bigs is fatigue from trying to deal with a three to four man rotation with players that can play at both ends with differing skillsets (but with the Plumlees ridiculous athleticism that will wear their bigs down over the game; Ryan's outside shot would make their job more difficult) that we can bring. On paper (and it is early), they don't have a lineup that makes me think they can challenge us or the other top level teams. I could be wrong by the end of the season, though. Just my thoughts.

[shoutingncu]

My bad! The accuracy of my spelling falls as the day wears on.

Don't mention the Wears. Carolina would have won by 20 if they hadn't transferred.

[dchen09]

They have the talent to match up with anyone? I kind of think differently. I think their guards are going to remain a major liability. Kendall has the best head, but he doesn't have the athleticism, and we know how the others respond to pressure. Tonight, they gave up 21 to a moderately good point guard (we have All-American talent for our guard positions) Harrison is pretty good, but I don't see him as a match for Kyle. I think Zeller, and Henson are very good, but Knox would simply be in there to foul against our backcourt. The problem that they would run into with their bigs is fatigue from trying to deal with a three to four man rotation with players that can play at both ends with differing skillsets (but with the Plumlees ridiculous athleticism that will wear their bigs down over the game; Ryan's outside shot would make their job more difficult) that we can bring. On paper (and it is early), they don't have a lineup that makes me think they can challenge us or the other top level teams. I could be wrong by the end of the season, though. Just my thoughts.

I actually think that their bigs match up very well with out bigs. If you look at pure front court players, they have Henson, Zeller, and Knox while we have 2 Plumlees and Kelly. While the Plumlees might be about to out jump any of them, both Henson and Zeller are very good at running the court. That is probably their best strength, being able to keep up with the guards in transition. Furthermore, I would say Henson is a more proven commodity as a shot blocker and rebounder than either one of the Plumlees. He got far more playing time last year and if you remember the games we played against UNC, he was one of the lone bright spots on the team. Zeller on the other hand, matches our bigs is size and is more refined offensively. Though he hasn't played much in the past 2 years, he has definitely shown flashes of a nice back to the basket game. If you want to include Singler in the equation, then UNC can also play Barnes at the 4.

The biggest difference is when comparing Knox with Kelly. I think this is where Duke has the clear advantage. Kelly will definitely be able to draw Knox out from the post with his shooting skills and he can also face up and take him off the dribble. Kelly is also a good passer out of the high post, which means that Duke will likely get some nice back door cuts if Knox is trying to guard Kelly.

I'm not saying that UNC has a better front court that Duke. Either Plumlee's strength will cause trouble for Henson while their athleticism will cause trouble for Zeller. I just don't think the difference in front court depth is as large as some people want to believe.

I'm didn't include Hairston in my discussion because I think he's still a little raw to be playing alot of minutes. Of course I hope he proves me wrong (and not at the expense of any of the upperclassmen).

[Gthoma2a]

I am more considering that Hairston can play inside with Henson. Henson is still small enough to be moved, and Hairston is a fourth body that should be able to run fast enough to have some fast breaks. He is also a viable option due to his hands. He catches the ball very well down low and he has a moderate mid range shot. This will keep more pressure on the two to three guys that UNC could realistically use at those positions. Then, if they throw Barnes at the 4, then they leave Singler on a guard with significantly less size. Singler is brilliant at picking apart mismatches. To risk this is to give our guards, who can create on their own enough to warrant help defense, a chance to hit him with a pass. With Kyle's toughness when driving, and his shooting ability, that just means easy points. I am not saying that UNC doesn't have good players, but they don't have enough of them to deal with all that a team like us can do to them.

[oldnavy]

I watched the game with my son the UNC fan (you do what you can to teach them, but... anyway).

It is very early, but I liked what I saw.

First, comments have been made that Lipscomb is a good team, I totally disagree. They were shaken and if they had any poise at all, they could have easily won this game. Henson got 7 blocks in large part because their guards insisted on challenging him under the basket rather than kicking the ball out for an open jumper. I remember one occasion Henson got 2 or maybe three blocks in row. A disciplined team would recognize this and drive and kick, but they kept taking it right into Henson who looked like an father swatting away his 5 year old son's shots on a 8 foot goal. Also, Lipscomb has very little in the way of athleticism or talent for that matter. Hodzic was not much of a factor. I had to laugh at the end of the game when Bob Rathburn made a comment about Hodzic withdrawing from the draft last year so he could get his degree from Lipscomb. NO, Hodzic withdrew from the draft because he was not going to be drafted! He was not impressive. Slater and Boyd were Lipscomb’s best players and neither of them would start on an ACC team. In two or three critical possessions, the Lipscomb players got trapped and instead of calling for time, they panicked and turned the ball over. They had their opportunities to rattle UNC down the stretch but failed by making stupid turnovers or taking bad shots. I admire their effort against an overwhelmingly more talented team, but Lipscomb is not a good team... sorry.

Second, UNC looked a lot like the UNC of old... last year's old. Nothing really flowed on offense for them. I really cannot put my finger on it yet, but it has to be the PG position again. They seemed to plod along, and I only remember a couple of run outs, one really nice one early with HB finishing with a dunk, but not much after that. Mostly a half-court, pass it around the perimeter, boring offensive performance. There was little to no penetration off the dribble. Zeller got most of his points toward the end of the game after Lipscomb started gambling and opened up the middle a little. Roy mentioned that DrewII had shown "drastic" improvement defensively. Well, a rather slow, un-athletic, average-shooting, ACC back up caliper, guard went for 21 on him, so I cannot wait to see what KI does to him. If that was drastic improvement then I must have forgotten how bad LDII was on D last year. Marshall was... OK. He actually shot the ball better than advertised, but he only had 3 assists against 2 turnovers. Not exactly numbers that makes you light up if you are a heel fan looking for a savior at the PG position. Henson was solid on defense, but it was against a very weak front court. Offensively, he was not much of a factor, mostly put backs for 10 points. He really did not create anything on his own. Barnes, was O-K. He looked to be trying a little too hard at times. He is no where near as good at this point as he has been talked up, but you can see that he has potential. I have to agree with the OP, that it is ridiculous for him to get top billing for this game. Henson was the best player for UNC last night, and Bullock was probably the second best. Bullock might get frustrated if his PT doesn’t increase. He played 15 minutes and got 12 points, compared to Barnes’ 27 minutes and 14 points. Compare their stat lines, the only difference is that Bullock was much more efficient while on the court. Marshall looked pretty good in his 11 minutes as well.
Getting back to my original point that nothing flowed on offense. This I believe goes right back to Roy. He continues to substitute in what appears be an erratic manner. I am not a HOF coach, but just watching the game, the substitutions seem to break up the consistency of the offensive patterns. It frustrated the heck out of my 18 year old son, who made the comment that if he were coaching, UNC would be winning by about 30… I believe he may have been right…

[loran16]

I watched the game with my son the UNC fan (you do what you can to teach them, but... anyway).

It is very early, but I liked what I saw.

First, comments have been made that Lipscomb is a good team, I totally disagree. They were shaken and if they had any poise at all, they could have easily won this game. Henson got 7 blocks in large part because their guards insisted on challenging him under the basket rather than kicking the ball out for an open jumper. I remember one occasion Henson got 2 or maybe three blocks in row. A disciplined team would recognize this and drive and kick, but they kept taking it right into Henson who looked like an father swatting away his 5 year old son's shots on a 8 foot goal. Also, Lipscomb has very little in the way of athleticism or talent for that matter. Hodzic was not much of a factor. I had to laugh at the end of the game when Bob Rathburn made a comment about Hodzic withdrawing from the draft last year so he could get his degree from Lipscomb. NO, Hodzic withdrew from the draft because he was not going to be drafted! He was not impressive. Slater and Boyd were Lipscomb’s best players and neither of them would start on an ACC team. In two or three critical possessions, the Lipscomb players got trapped and instead of calling for time, they panicked and turned the ball over. They had their opportunities to rattle UNC down the stretch but failed by making stupid turnovers or taking bad shots. I admire their effort against an overwhelmingly more talented team, but Lipscomb is not a good team... sorry.

Second, UNC looked a lot like the UNC of old... last year's old. Nothing really flowed on offense for them. I really cannot put my finger on it yet, but it has to be the PG position again. They seemed to plod along, and I only remember a couple of run outs, one really nice one early with HB finishing with a dunk, but not much after that. Mostly a half-court, pass it around the perimeter, boring offensive performance. There was little to no penetration off the dribble. Zeller got most of his points toward the end of the game after Lipscomb started gambling and opened up the middle a little. Roy mentioned that DrewII had shown "drastic" improvement defensively. Well, a rather slow, un-athletic, average-shooting, ACC back up caliper, guard went for 21 on him, so I cannot wait to see what KI does to him. If that was drastic improvement then I must have forgotten how bad LDII was on D last year. Marshall was... OK. He actually shot the ball better than advertised, but he only had 3 assists against 2 turnovers. Not exactly numbers that makes you light up if you are a heel fan looking for a savior at the PG position. Henson was solid on defense, but it was against a very weak front court. Offensively, he was not much of a factor, mostly put backs for 10 points. He really did not create anything on his own. Barnes, was O-K. He looked to be trying a little too hard at times. He is no where near as good at this point as he has been talked up, but you can see that he has potential. I have to agree with the OP, that it is ridiculous for him to get top billing for this game. Henson was the best player for UNC last night, and Bullock was probably the second best. Bullock might get frustrated if his PT doesn’t increase. He played 15 minutes and got 12 points, compared to Barnes’ 27 minutes and 14 points. Compare their stat lines, the only difference is that Bullock was much more efficient while on the court. Marshall looked pretty good in his 11 minutes as well.
Getting back to my original point that nothing flowed on offense. This I believe goes right back to Roy. He continues to substitute in what appears be an erratic manner. I am not a HOF coach, but just watching the game, the substitutions seem to break up the consistency of the offensive patterns. It frustrated the heck out of my 18 year old son, who made the comment that if he were coaching, UNC would be winning by about 30… I believe he may have been right…

In 2009, when Roy had a championship caliber team, he did the same thing in the first few games of the season (Hell all the way till conference play) - Play lots of players, substituted in so that multiple lines are used, etc. It's very different from K, but Roy's always done it...and he's won doing it before. So lets be fair here: yes it may have been suboptimal, but let's not assume he'd continue to do in conference play (he didn't last year, fwiw).

Roy tests everyone out in different ways. I actually find that smart myself.

[oldnavy]

In 2009, when Roy had a championship caliber team, he did the same thing in the first few games of the season (Hell all the way till conference play) - Play lots of players, substituted in so that multiple lines are used, etc. It's very different from K, but Roy's always done it...and he's won doing it before. So lets be fair here: yes it may have been suboptimal, but let's not assume he'd continue to do in conference play (he didn't last year, fwiw).

Roy tests everyone out in different ways. I actually find that smart myself.

I think it acutally hurt him last year. There were multiple times last year that Roy would sub out a player who had gotten some momentum. I remember specifically one game where Ginyard had awaken (didn't happen often) and scored about 6 straight points and was getting a bounce in his step and the team seemed to be following his lead. He came out the next whistle and all the momentum left. UNC lost the game (GT?). Both my wife and son who are UNC fans recognized this pattern last year, and I saw it again last night.

It may have worked in the past, but isn't that what Roy said last year about his style? OK, fine with me, keep doing it... it may work or it may not. This was the first game so who knows, they may respond very well to it this year. But no one can say that his style worked last year or that he was smart to do it last year.

[kong123]

I was disappointed with much that I saw last night, but the end result was a win, so we take what we can from it and move on. Zeller, Strickland, and Drew reverted back to last years ways. Strickland didn't look confident last night. He looked like HB did in last weeks exhibition game. Drew looks lackadaisical. I made the comment last night that perhaps playing against our defense in practice is not a good form of preparation for playing against college defenses. Wish our defense could be coached by K. I don't know if its technique or effort, but our guys just don't guard the ball well. The help defense we play will be eaten up by Duke. And, if Duke is on, 82-50 may be a possibility.

I think Lipscomb was a tough opponent for UNC because they were an experienced group. They returned their entire starting five, which I understand most of them would not play on an ACC team, but still- they have experience. Lipscomb game-planned to stop UNC and UNC just planned to go out and execute their own game. I think the team with more talent won, as they should, but it wasn't the performance that was expected.

The IC moderators mentioned in an article that the heat on Drew maybe affecting him. They also said that it appears that replacing him with KM may create some chemistry issues. I remember when Paulas was replaced in the starting lineup a few years ago, I thought to myself that it may affect team chemistry. To my eyes, it did. Kind of like the 93-94 team UNC had where Stackhouse and Wallace deserved to start, but for chemistry reason, Dean played the upper-classmen. I believe that allowing an upper-classmen to start, but give the under-classmen starter minutes is the way to go. One things for sure, Drew sat the bench at the end of the game cause he couldn't make free throws and because he looked dangerous (in a bad way) with the ball. As far as Strickland, if he wants to continue to start, he better wake up. Bullock played great last night and I expect more of the same from him.

[oldnavy]

I was disappointed with much that I saw last night, but the end result was a win, so we take what we can from it and move on. Zeller, Strickland, and Drew reverted back to last years ways. Strickland didn't look confident last night. He looked like HB did in last weeks exhibition game. Drew looks lackadaisical. I made the comment last night that perhaps playing against our defense in practice is not a good form of preparation for playing against college defenses. Wish our defense could be coached by K. I don't know if its technique or effort, but our guys just don't guard the ball well. The help defense we play will be eaten up by Duke. And, if Duke is on, 82-50 may be a possibility.

I think Lipscomb was a tough opponent for UNC because they were an experienced group. They returned their entire starting five, which I understand most of them would not play on an ACC team, but still- they have experience. Lipscomb game-planned to stop UNC and UNC just planned to go out and execute their own game. I think the team with more talent won, as they should, but it wasn't the performance that was expected.

The IC moderators mentioned in an article that the heat on Drew maybe affecting him. They also said that it appears that replacing him with KM may create some chemistry issues. I remember when Paulas was replaced in the starting lineup a few years ago, I thought to myself that it may affect team chemistry. To my eyes, it did. Kind of like the 93-94 team UNC had where Stackhouse and Wallace deserved to start, but for chemistry reason, Dean played the upper-classmen. I believe that allowing an upper-classmen to start, but give the under-classmen starter minutes is the way to go. One things for sure, Drew sat the bench at the end of the game cause he couldn't make free throws and because he looked dangerous (in a bad way) with the ball. As far as Strickland, if he wants to continue to start, he better wake up. Bullock played great last night and I expect more of the same from him.

Kong, this may be the first post of yours that I agree with completely!! (should I be worried???).
I noticed that during one timeout Roy was going at DrewII in the huddle. No big deal, except that after the TO, you could see LDII's body language had changed and he looked... well he looked defeated in a way. Not sure what to make of that, but I did note it.
Bullock was the surprise of the night to me. He seemed very comfortable on the court and was productive. Why only 15 minutes for him?? That will need to change IMO.
I did not expect HB to come out and play like an AA, and to be honest I find the hype and expectations on him to be almost suffocating. He did very well for a freshman, but was a flop for an AA... UNC better hope that Roy can get in his head in a good way and re-enforce that he is a freshman and forget about the AA tag. Otherwise, I think the kid wants it so bad that he may destroy himself with internal pressure.
Marshall did well enough, way too early to tell about him. I honestly did not see anything that made me think he is going to be really good, but it is just one game…

On a side note; did anyone else flinch when G Man said he would drive 19 hours to get out of Ames as well when Rathburn mentioned some of HB's buds had done that? OUCH!!

[DukieInBrasil]

Marshall totally outplayed Drew. In only 11 minutes compared to Drew's 29 KM had better numbers in every category. His shooting was particularly good while LD IIs couldn't hit a shot and only sank 4-8 FTs. Drew was probably the least impressive player on the whole team. I don't think he keeps his starting spot beyond the next game if there is this sort of productive divergence between the two.

[oldnavy]

Marshall totally outplayed Drew. In only 11 minutes compared to Drew's 29 KM had better numbers in every category. His shooting was particularly good while LD IIs couldn't hit a shot and only sank 4-8 FTs. Drew was probably the least impressive player on the whole team. I don't think he keeps his starting spot beyond the next game if there is this sort of productive divergence between the two.

I would start:
Marshall
Bullock
Henson
Barnes
Zeller

There is no reason this team cannot be very good by the end of the year if they get good coaching...

[sandinmyshoes]

I would start:
Marshall
Bullock
Henson
Barnes
Zeller

There is no reason this team cannot be very good by the end of the year if they get good coaching...

That would be my starting five as well. Of course, it's based on just one game.

I had a laugh at all of us geniuses during the first half of that game. On another thread we were arguing about how capable Marshall was going to be. The one thing we all seemed to agree on was that his strength was as a poised, passing point guard, and that he had limited offensive abilities and was a defensive liability.

So, he throws two really bad 3/4 court passes, finishes the half with no assists, but hits a three, got a couple of steals and scores 8 points to be tied for the scoring lead at the half.

What I saw. Potential there. Larry Drew can still come unhinged -- I thought it was telling that Williams had Marshall in to finish the game.

UNC's interior defense depends on Henson blocking shots. Neither he or Zeller can or will put a body on post players. Knox will probably see some time because he at least seemed willing to throw his body around.

The Bison did a good job of doubling down. Zeller and Henson were too slow in their reactions to the doubles. The Bison also gambled with only sending two players to the boards in an effort to curtail UNC's fastbreak, and they got away with it thanks to a lot of long rebounds off of missed threes.

At some point, Williams is going to have to ask himself, what's the toughest lineup I can put on the floor. There is a lot of finesse with that team and not much grit, imo.

On the plus side. If, and they probably will, they get more cohesive, they have some scorers and some long, quick potential on defense.