Bilas on Kanter

[johnb]

I could put this in the Kanter thread, but it really relates to Jay's perspective on the situation. While defending Kanter on espn's premium service (http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-coll...jay&id=5793957), Bilas says this:

"Does anyone believe former Duke star Trajan Langdon did not receive an education, and did not love the game? Well, while Langdon was in college, he earned hundreds of thousands of dollars playing professional baseball in the minor leagues, yet he still suited up for the Blue Devils as an amateur basketball player."

I thought it somewhat amusing that Duke is a consensus preseason #1 from everyone except him (he picked MSU), but it seems a low blow to toss Trajan into the mix without explanation of the differing circumstances. Yes, both got cash to play sports, but Trajan got clearance beforehand to play a different sport over the summer. They're somewhat similar situations, but very different to the rulemakers. My problem with Jay's assertion is that half the people who read his articles hate Duke, and such side comments not only fuel the general fire but also besmirch the good name of one of my favorite former players. I call foul.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I could put this in the Kanter thread, but it really relates to Jay's perspective on the situation. While defending Kanter on espn's premium service (http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-coll...jay&id=5793957), Bilas says this:

"Does anyone believe former Duke star Trajan Langdon did not receive an education, and did not love the game? Well, while Langdon was in college, he earned hundreds of thousands of dollars playing professional baseball in the minor leagues, yet he still suited up for the Blue Devils as an amateur basketball player."

I thought it somewhat amusing that Duke is a consensus preseason #1 from everyone except him (he picked MSU), but it seems a low blow to toss Trajan into the mix without explanation of the differing circumstances. Yes, both got cash to play sports, but Trajan got clearance beforehand to play a different sport over the summer. They're somewhat similar situations, but very different to the rulemakers. My problem with Jay's assertion is that half the people who read his articles hate Duke, and such side comments not only fuel the general fire but also besmirch the good name of one of my favorite former players. I call foul.

May I ask where you get that Bilas has MSU #1? The only Bilas-rankings I've seen are from Monday's CBB ESPN rankings, where Bilas, along with everyone else at ESPN, has Duke #1 (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...s/_/show/first).

Secondly, I don't think Bilas was taking a cheap shot at all at Duke or Trajan. He used Trajan as an example of how the NCAA's rationale behind not allowing students to make money is ridiculous, whether or not Trajan got cleared (and he was). Personally, I thought it was a legit example.

Thirdly, I've always been opposed to Bilas' 'anti-bias' perspective on Duke. He tries so hard to be objective and not bias that he ends up never considering Duke!

[Bluedog]

May I ask where you get that Bilas has MSU #1? The only Bilas-rankings I've seen are from Monday's CBB ESPN rankings, where Bilas, along with everyone else at ESPN, has Duke #1 (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...s/_/show/first).

I think perhaps the confusion is that Bilas chose MSU to win the national championship, which some saw as ranking them #1. But it's a different question. Unless Bilas changed his mind recently and moved Duke to #1...

[El_Diablo]

Having never received any money to play basketball, Langdon was an amateur basketball player. Having received money to play basketball, Kanter was a professional basketball player.

Amateur basketball players are NCAA-eligible. Professional basketball players are not. Bilas can try to blur the lines by describing Langdon in a higher level of abstraction (as making money for doing something "athletics-related"), but it ignores the distinction that exists at the fundamental level. An NCAA basketball player can use his other skills (intellectual, artistic, or athletic) to make money over the summer by trading stocks on Wall Street, by bagging groceries, or by playing another sport...but what he can't do is profit from the game of basketball if he wants to remain eligible. It's a pretty simple distinction to me, and I fully support the NCAA in deeming Kanter ineligible.

[El_Diablo]

May I ask where you get that Bilas has MSU #1? The only Bilas-rankings I've seen are from Monday's CBB ESPN rankings, where Bilas, along with everyone else at ESPN, has Duke #1 (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...s/_/show/first).

Bilas ranked MSU #1 at some point over the summer, in one of those pre-pre-season polls.

[COYS]

Having never received any money to play basketball, Langdon was an amateur basketball player. Having received money to play basketball, Kanter was a professional basketball player.

Amateur basketball players are NCAA-eligible. Professional basketball players are not. Bilas can try to blur the lines by describing Langdon in a higher level of abstraction (as making money for doing something "athletics-related"), but it ignores the distinction that exists at the fundamental level. An NCAA basketball player can use his other skills (intellectual, artistic, or athletic) to make money over the summer by trading stocks on Wall Street, by bagging groceries, or by playing another sport...but what he can't do is profit from the game of basketball if he wants to remain eligible. It's a pretty simple distinction to me, and I fully support the NCAA in deeming Kanter ineligible.

To be fair to the Bilas, though, Jay is arguing that such a distinction is arbitrary and outdated . . . especially given that the sum of money being disputed is $33,000, most of which it appears the Kanter family has not even spent. Jay's argument is that the decision is correct, but the rules are bad. It's fair to disagree with him, of course, but I believe that Bilas is well aware of the distinction between Langdon and Kanter.

[Turtleboy]

To be fair to the Bilas, though, Jay is arguing that such a distinction is arbitrary and outdated . . .

Do you really believe that Bilas is arguing that professional basketball players should be eligible for NCAA play?

[Duvall]

Do you really believe that Bilas is arguing that professional basketball players should be eligible for NCAA play?

Bilas on amateurism (ESPN insider):

Here is the solution: The NCAA should redefine its concept of amateurism to allow compensation outside of the institution and to bring the principle in line with reality. As with the Olympic model, an amateur should be defined as an athlete that accepts no salary or direct compensation from the institution or its representatives (beyond a scholarship, expenses and stipend to cover cost of attendance), and the athlete should be a full-time student in good-standing. That's it.

Outside income from marketing rights, endorsements, jobs attained because of one's athletic reputation, participation in sport for which compensation-beyond-expenses has been received (which would primarily encompass foreign athletes playing under a different system), and agreements with agents, advisors and other representatives should no longer be illegal or discouraged.

[COYS]

Do you really believe that Bilas is arguing that professional basketball players should be eligible for NCAA play?

No, he is arguing that the black and white distinction between professional and amateur has been blurred so much that the rules need to be updated to allow players some profit from their basketball abilities without deeming them ineligible. As I said, I don't necessarily agree with Bilas, I just thought that some of the nuances of Bilas' position were being overlooked.

[SCMatt33]

Do you really believe that Bilas is arguing that professional basketball players should be eligible for NCAA play?

Essentially he is. His article last month essentially thinks that players should be able to earn a living off of their talents (through endorsements, etc., not a salary from the school).

For Kanter, he has professed his belief that foreigners should not be punished for growing up in a system where you are immersed in basketball and receive benefits accordingly. Where I think that Jay is misguided is that he claims that the NCAA shouldn't prevent a player who wants to buck the trend in Europe and come play college basketball from doing so. I have a hard time believing that Kanter came here because he wants to play college ball, but that a year in college would be a better path to a higher draft pick and a better endorsement deal as opposed to staying in Turkey.

[COYS]

I have a hard time believing that Kanter came here because he wants to play college ball, but that a year in college would be a better path to a higher draft pick and a better endorsement deal as opposed to staying in Turkey.

If there is an area where I disagree with Bilas the most, this is it. There is simply no way Kanter thinks that one year of undergraduate education at Kentucky is so valuable as to forfeit hundreds of thousands of dollars to play for free.

[roywhite]

To be fair to the Bilas, though, Jay is arguing that such a distinction is arbitrary and outdated . . . especially given that the sum of money being disputed is $33,000, most of which it appears the Kanter family has not even spent. Jay's argument is that the decision is correct, but the rules are bad. It's fair to disagree with him, of course, but I believe that Bilas is well aware of the distinction between Langdon and Kanter.

Why Bilas feels the need to bring Duke into this discussion is unclear and a bit troubling. It's red meat for UK fans and objectionable to this Duke fan for sure.

[COYS]

Why Bilas feels the need to bring Duke into this discussion is unclear and a bit troubling. It's red meat for UK fans and objectionable to this Duke fan for sure.

UK fans will find something to hate about Duke regardless. While I certainly don't fully agree with Bilas and I sympathize with your feeling that using Duke is objectionable here, I think that Bilas is actually using Langdon precisely because he was/is so well-regarded by most even-keeled college basketball fans. He's basically saying that an a great person who loved the game received money for playing minor league baseball which in no way corrupted the spirit of amateur athletics. While I understand where Bilas is coming from, I think the difference between Kanter and Langdon are immensely more substantial than their similarities. However, I don't feel that Bilas is dragging Langdon's name through the mud.

[Duvall]

Why Bilas feels the need to bring Duke into this discussion is unclear and a bit troubling. It's red meat for UK fans and objectionable to this Duke fan for sure.

A fair point. Kyle Parker is playing college football right now with a million-dollar signing bonus from the Colorado Rockies in his bank account. Why reach back for an example from the 1990s?

[johnb]

UK fans will find something to hate about Duke regardless. While I certainly don't fully agree with Bilas and I sympathize with your feeling that using Duke is objectionable here, I think that Bilas is actually using Langdon precisely because he was/is so well-regarded by most even-keeled college basketball fans. ... However, I don't feel that Bilas is dragging Langdon's name through the mud.

I basically agree all round and have never previously been irritated by Bilas's efforts to be even-handed, but it did seem to me that he was throwing Langdon (who most current non-Duke basketball fans probably don't remember) under the bus to make a point.

[superdave]

Why Bilas feels the need to bring Duke into this discussion is unclear and a bit troubling. It's red meat for UK fans and objectionable to this Duke fan for sure.

Russell Wilson

Josh Booty

Chris Weinke

There are other examples, just not major college basketball ones.

[COYS]

Russell Wilson

Josh Booty

Chris Weinke

There are other examples, just not major college basketball ones.

I will agree with you that it may have been shortsighted of Bilas not to include other examples of other amateur athletes held in high regard who were in the same situation as Langdon.

[4decadedukie]

I respectfully take serious exception to Jay's contention that “Nothing is gained by forcing kids to sit out that (A) want to play in college and (B) are full-time students and academically qualified,” referring to Kentucky’s Enes Kanter. Potentially, something absolutely critical is reinforced by Kanter’s disqualification by the NCAA, due to his Turkish professional basketball credentials. Specifically, the integrity of amateurism in intercollegiate athletics is strengthened (not to mention, simple old-fashioned adherence to regulations and policies). I believe this is quite important, especially during an era when the ethics of college athletics are constantly criticized, as a result of the conduct of players, coaches, boosters, agents, administrators and so forth.

Either intercollegiate athletics (particularly, men’s football and basketball) evolve into pro/semi-pro sports, or they do not. If Jay – and others – advocates the former, I respectfully suggest that is the precise purpose of the NBA's Development League, not of college sports.

[loran16]

"Does anyone believe former Duke star Trajan Langdon did not receive an education, and did not love the game? Well, while Langdon was in college, he earned hundreds of thousands of dollars playing professional baseball in the minor leagues, yet he still suited up for the Blue Devils as an amateur basketball player."

Minor Complaint. Langdon earned a $230,000 signing bonus and very little else in the minors (minor league salaries suck.) Saying it was hundreds of thousands, while technically true, makes it sound like more than that, like he was getting pretty rich off of it. Well, it was a nice amount of money for 3 years of minor league baseball, but he certainly wasn't getting rich.

[whereinthehellami]

Jay is reaching here and there is no reason to bring Duke into the equation. There is only one reason Kanter is at UK and its not for the education, despite the lame UK press statement. If they let Kanter in, then the flood gates will start to open up. Cal would no doubht have a future lineup of well paid athlete scholars from all over the globe.