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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Spret42 View Post
    They pretty much had to call a foul and Henderson has to be suspended.

    For sure their was absolutely NO intent on Hendersons part.

    However, it doesn't matter if he did it on purpose. Every guy is responsible for his body and when he throws a blow, even one that was a result of making a basketball play and had no intent, and it results in something like that the player is called for a foul and suspended.

    Without that kind of rule, players would play with a kind of reckless abandon that results in more incidents like that one. By suspending Henderson, all players are reminded that they must play in control at all times.
    That is absurd. There is no rule stating a player must play in control or else be suspended if anyone gets hurt. Otherwise we'd have new suspensions at every other loose ball. Intent is pretty much all that matters. If play was dead it would be a different matter, but it was not.
    Last edited by Lulu; 03-04-2007 at 06:59 PM.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Towson, MD
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelion View Post
    Roy Williams ...was just enjoying the win so much and was actually trying to run the score up.

    K would NEVER do that....NEVER

    We had a freaking walk-on guarding Hansbrough with 20 seconds left!

    Henderson is my new favorite Blue Devil...he wasn't going to give anything easy to Carolina.

    Carolina has no -one to blame but themselves....and Roy
    Give me a break... Duke has been in the same position many times, and left star players in the game with seconds left to go and a big lead.

    I do think Henderson's apparent suspension is unwarranted, and I hope the play can be reviewed or appealed. But blaming UNC for Hansbrough being on the floor when Duke has also regularly left starters in much longer than necessary is unreasonable.
    Last edited by MulletMan; 03-04-2007 at 07:40 PM. Reason: see above

  3. #43
    UNC basketball radio is saying "there was no malicious intent, but G was out of control". but commented on: Coach K saying TH sould not be in the game at that point.

    UNC radio isn't focused on this as much as this board is.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hudson Valley
    they were up big with 20 sec. to go and still had their starters in the game

    I said that in another thread - and (no surprise K also noticed)

    I HOPE WE REMEMBER

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulu View Post
    That is absurd. There is no rule stating a player must play in control or else be suspended if anyone gets hurt. Otherwise we'd have new suspensions at every other loose ball. Intent is pretty much all that matters. If play was dead it would be a different matter, but it was not.
    Agreed Lulu

  6. #46

    Gerald out for the 1st Round -- Consequences?

    I know a previous thread got locked, but I like the physical play of Gerald. It's about time someone stepped up and showed some cojones and made a hard foul. I seriously doubt that G wanted to hurt Hansbrough, but basketball isn't golf....there is contact, people get elbowed, people lose teeth, people get trampled during a charge....had Hansbrough not bled...G would have gotten a flagrant and that's it. Just because it's Tyler "Golden Child" Hansbrough...the G will probably be used as an example by the league. Who cares? It's about darn time someone comitted a hard foul to keep an opposing player from scoring. What the h*ll was Hansbrough in the game for with 14 secs left up by 14???? Was Good Ol' Roy trying to run the score up? hmmm....I don't wish ill on anyone....but ol' Hansblahblah had it coming. Gerald's my new favorite player!!!! Career high baby!
    Last edited by throatybeard; 03-04-2007 at 07:00 PM.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hudson Valley
    Yeah - they won (it is easy to be magnaneous (sp) after the fact

    and we din't try to run up the score against them

    Jim

  8. #48
    Woody Guthrie says TH says that his nose is not broken.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Back in the dirty Jerz

    Thumbs down NCAA rules

    Looking at the rules, it looks to me like the ruling has to be "fighting" to cause an ejection.

    A single technical foul does not result in ejection. The second one does. So that can't be it.

    Intentional technical fouls by the way are dead-ball only fouls (Rule 10, Sec 15) so it's not that either.

    A flagrant contact technical foul (Rule 10, Sec 13, Art 3) is for "severely or excessively contacting an opponent when the ball is dead."

    So that's not it. Other than fighting, that's the only contact-oriented flagrant foul rule I can find. The other flagrant foul rules are all non-contact fouls.

    Ok so it's gotta be fighting. Let's look at the rules.

    Section 17. Fighting
    Art. 1. Fighting, as defined in Rule 4-23, includes, but is not limited to:
    a. An attempt to strike an opponent with the arms, hands, legs or feet.
    b. An attempt to punch or kick an opponent, regardless of whether
    contact is made.
    c. An attempt to instigate a fight by committing an unsportsmanlike act toward an opponent that causes the opponent to retaliate by fighting.

    As determined by the officials, fighting is a flagrant foul and can be either
    personal (during a live ball) or technical (during a dead ball).

    So they've obviously ruled that he attempted to strike an opponent ... etc. Note the rule obviously requires intent. It does not allow a "hard foul" without intent to count as fighting.

    Penalties (Sec 19):

    Art. 2. The first time an individual participates in a fight during the season (including exhibition games), the individual shall be suspended from
    participating in the team’s next regular-season game (not an exhibition
    contest), including tournament competition.

    Art. 3. When an individual participates in a second fight, that individual
    shall be suspended for the remainder of the season, including tournament
    competition.

    Art. 6. Any team member or other bench personnel under suspension
    for fighting shall not be in the team’s bench area.

    And most importantly:

    Art. 8. After a game, conference offices or the assigning authority may correct an error in who was involved in a fight but cannot change an
    official’s ruling that a fight took place or lessen the severity of the penalty.

    So G is gonna get screwed.

  10. #50

    Totally agree

    If you happen to poke a guy in the eye trying to block a shot and get suspended that would be kind of silly. What if someone rolls an ankle stepping on your foot? Sorry son, we'll see you in a game or two. Equally absurd.

  11. #51
    While I am 100% positive that the foul was not intentional, we should realize that if Tyler Hansbrough committed a foul like that against Gerald Henderson at Cameron, we would want him suspended too.

    We shouldn't let this incident get the better of us. Still, I don't think the foul is worth a suspension, but there you have it. Sometimes, unfair stuff comes at us, and we have to take it. No team will ever get all the calls their way.

    Hansbrough has a right to be mad, but everyone needs to just let this go. I am glad that his nose isn't broken, and Duke will get revenge in the ACC tournament.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hudson Valley
    OK Give an example

    When did Duke try to run up the score? Give a specific example
    Same situation (whoever we have in the game) we are try to dribble out the clock - not trying to run up the score

    Cite a specific example

  13. #53

    Right on, brother!

    Dude, I love you! You completely hit the nail on the head! Why was Hansbrough in the game at that point? He totally deserved what he got. It is obvious that Gerald did not mean to hurt him, but because it was Hansbrough, Gerald gets suspended for a game. If it was Terry, Wright, or Lawson, there would be no suspension. But because it was good ol' boy Tyler, he has to sit out the State game. I hope the ACC steps in and looks at this and sees the truth! I have lost all respect for Tyler, because apparently he can dish it out but he can't take it! As for Roy, it sure looks to me like he ran up the score, but K won't say anything because he has too much classy and dignity. Bottom line: Hansbrough got what he deserved! Go Gerald Henderson!!

  14. #54
    At first I thought he did it on purpose. But as I watched it two things told me it was accidental:

    *He didn't go straight into him or his face.

    *He swiped down in a motion towards the ball.

    This was an unfortunate thing. I agree that now for the next 3 years he's going to be labled as a dirty player - at least to the UNC folks. I'd be really curious as to whether Ellington comes to his friends side or keeps "mum" on it.

    Hansborough is a physical player. He's not dirty to me. His style of play is that he forces his will on other players. It's physical. You have to react to it and give it back or he'll force that will and he'll have the upper hand not only for a play, but a game, a season, and a career.

    I've seen him get in some testy situations. I think he keeps his calm pretty well. But he has to know it, agressive and physical play, is what he gives and is what he's going to get back. When that happens and people miss - it's gonna hurt. I think that is what happened here.

    It will be interesting to see what K says, what Henderson says, as with Hansborough and Ellington. Not to mention the league itself.

  15. #55

    Well Sportscenter just said

    Henderson will receive a one game suspension. Seems DukeUsul already figured this out though so thanks... ESPN also didn't really give their input about whether it seems an accident or not.

  16. #56

    T had it comin'

    When you add:

    T "I'm a tough guy" + Run up the score Roy + less than 20 to play + I'm going to dunk on a walk-on...then what do you expect? A hard foul, which is what it was and the result was more than UNC bargained for.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    He's not saying we try to run up the score, he's saying that K leaves his starters in a lot, which is true.

    Try to keep up.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph-Wiggum View Post
    As a UNC fan, there were 4 things I didn't like about that play (other than Hansbrough's broken nose of course):

    1). Hansbrough shouldn't have been in the game.

    2). Hansbrough shouldn't have gone up for a dunk.

    3). It was an extremely hard foul, but I'm not sure if it was intentional.

    4). Dewey Burke should've taken the free-throws, damn it!
    ralph, thanks for the levelheaded response. I really wish we could take that play back.

    I also wish the fans at the game were more like you. I was spit at for wearing a duke shirt when T was hammered. Luckily they missed.

  19. #59
    I totally agree. Roy was just trying to show up Coach K for his 100th victory. Plain and simple. You guys can block this if you want...but you know it's true too. And if you didn't crack a smile at Hansbrough bleeding and crying...you're not a TRUE Duke fan. A true Duke fan HATES all things UNC...period.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    I agree. We've certainly kept our starters in as long.

    But if Hansblahblah is going to go back up at that point to pad stats instead of kick it back out to his guards to end the game, I have no problem with a hard foul. Gotta stick up for your team. It sucks about the unintentional elbow, but he put himself in that position by trying to run it up with 3 Duke guys hanging on him.

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