Hendo to be suspended?

[DukeBlood]

Did you watch that clip? Come on now. It had nothing to do with Gerald Henderson and Tyler Hans. He was making a joke.

At first I was upset, but then i watched the clip. Was a huge sigh of relief.

[JBDuke]

I doubt this post will last, but my response:

As I said already; he was already leaping when the ball changed direction. It seemed to me he was trying for a horizontal swipe block, not a vertical, up and down block like centers like do. The ball was knocked back by the blond Duke player, TH's head and body were turned, his arm pulled back and down, so that rather than jumping into his side and underarm as he would have and swiping across the top of the hands, instead Henderson came up into TH's now lowered head area... then Henderson started to twist his body back as well to track the ball while now being in mid-air and trying not to come down without good footing and on top of TH, and off balance reacted by bringing his arm back towards the rapidly leaving ball, or more accurately DOWN, as he couldn't bring it BACK from the position he was in, and right into TH's now lowered nose and head... a bad result, for sure, but I really, really don't think intentional.

I think this is literally the physics of what happened, and I think it was just an unfortunate physical and literal "turn for the worse."

As for the players and all being just civil for show but seething and furious and sure it was on purpose inside... I don't buy it. When teams or players or coaches are pissed, they don't mind saying/showing it. That is how you send a message when you feel you need to send one. These guys all know each other, some better than others, all play together (fans take the rivalry much hotter than players often) and I think to them, who have played ball for YEARS and seen all sorts of bad shots, they clearly understand it wasn't intentional. Coach Williams said he knew Gerald and his family (remember, he comes from a serious basketball bloodline, with a father being an NBA player) and didn't believe he meant anything by it. Gerald said, multiple times, that he very much didn't mean to hurt TH. Lawson actually laughed a bit at the whole thing and said some ice would take care of it. Coack K certainly didn't think it was done on purpose. Wright agreed and said it was just part of the game. Come on.

Repeat after me: "I will not post a reply until I have actually read a post and viewed its attachments." Now repeat 50 times.

[VaDukie]

Sorry Lord Ash, after watching the Wade clip again today I thought I'd post it and have some fun. I completely agree with what you have to say.

[phaedrus]

the clip of this play has now been watched millions of times, but i haven't seen anyone mention that hansbrough clearly traveled before the hit. he picks up his pivot foot and moves it about 2 feet forward. maybe we had just taken that for granted.

[BDevilU]

I just caught a brief discussion of the incident again tonight on ESPN, mostly regarding the suspension. ESPN has now cut down the frame and angle so that viewers completely miss the ball being deflected. They showed the replay several times zoomed in on Henderson and his "reckless" attack on poor Hans. They've made it look like Hans was just standing in the lane minding his own business when here comes a flying elbow from Henderson... out of nowhere, pro wrestling style, off the top rope. It could have been a deadball from the footage I just saw. Disgusting, really.

Next, the talking heads... primarily Stacey Dales... wagged those heads and agreed with the severity of the penalties involved. The bombshell came when Stacey attempted to help us understand the mindset and situation of this troubled young Freshman. This is not an exact quote, but she reminded us that he is "just a Freshman in a big game, with a lot of emotion, versus a rival, after being heckled by your own fans..."

At this point, my mind shut down. Huh? Henderson heckled by Duke fans? In this game? Ever? Does someone need to remind Stacey that the Dean Dome is UNC's homecourt and that any heckling must have been from fans in a more sissified shade of blue?

Stacey then went on to discuss Florida State's chances at the big dance... with star player "Al Horton"...

[SeattleIrish]

Well done, VA Dukie. Well done.

s.i.

[Duke15304]

Did anybody else hear Mike and Mike this morning saying the Henderson shoulndt have done it, it was a dirty play, and it is irrevlant that Roy had his starters on the floor, that show has become a joke

[devildownunder]

This is what is so discouraging for me about the last few years. It seems like we just continue to have this non-stop string of controveries that get seized upon and blown all out of proportion. If we win, there's a freaking controversy. If we lose, there's some more controversy. If Coach K says one thing, the context is adjusted to create controversy. Melchionni gets kicked in the face, and it's a 3 second replay, never mentioned again. But let anything make Duke look bad, and you have ESPN, myriad hack writers, and 1000000000 youtube amateur producers piling on. It just never stops these days. I guess it's nice to have attention, because it means you've been successful, but damn it get's old being cast as Darth Vader every week.

when we are racking up yet another 30-win season, all of this hatred is a lot easier to blow off. For us to get to 30 wins this year, we would need a final four run, and that is unlikely, to put it extremely mildly.

[Tirade]

If it was possible to take this EXACT same situation from Sunday’s game, but change some of the variables: Rewind 2 years, change venues to Cameron, and swap out Henderson for McCants and Tyler for JJ. How would you all feel if McCants hammered JJ across the nose resulting in him having to wear a face mask through the post-season…even if it wasn’t an intentional blow?

[kjo3444]

Why would you celebrate a #1 seed. That would be not quite as ridiculous as cutting down the nets for tying for the best record during a conference regular season while playing an unbalanced scheduled.

I guess that you missed where he said ACC tournament champions? I thought you actually had to- you know - have some reading COMPREHENSION to respond to columns.

Perhaps, though, you were ignoring the conference titles. Coach K has won 3 titles in 22 years of playing in the NCAA tournament against a field of 64(65). He has 78.2 winning percentage. He has won a title 13.6% of the time. There has't been a coach with as good of a record since Wooden. The closest was Bob Knight, with 3 titles in 24 appearances but only a 66.7 winning percentage. Dean Smith is nowhere near with two title in 27 years, nor is Roy Williams with only one title in 17 years. The Braves (also my team) won one title in 14 years against a field of 8 for 10 of those years and field of 4 for 4 of those years. They comiled a 52.9 winning percentage.

Man, am I silly. Feeding the trolls.

NOTE edited Dean from one to two titles. Thanks Indoor66! I guess I either wanted Georgetown to not throw the ball away or Webber not to call that timeout. Anyway point still stands 3/22 > 3/24 > 2/27

The original post compared Duke to the Yankees. In my opinion, they are only comparable in that the fan bases are geographically similar.

I am not trolling - my point was (and continues to be) that the Yankees win WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS, including 6 in the last 10 years, whereas Duke has won 1 in the last 14. So...not so much, and the original post is incorrect in my opinion. Hence my point that Duke is more like the Angels, who have also won 1 championship title in the last 14 years.

If you want to discuss ACC regular season success (and clearly you do and should, given how well Duke has done), then as I stated, the more apt comparison is to the Braves, who do well in the regular season, and then crap the bed when the post season comes calling. Nothing to be ashamed of, but let's differentiate between the Yankees success and Duke's.

[throatybeard]

The original post compared Duke to the Yankees. In my opinion, they are only comparable in that the fan bases are geographically similar.

In what respect? The degree of geographic dispersion, or the nature of it? (Primarily, but not exclusively east coast).

If it's merely degree, arguably a bunch of other teams have national fanbases. Carolina has more apparel sales than we do and you see their gear all over the country. The Red Sox, Cubs, Cowboys, Lakers, and Notre Dame all have at least as dispersed fanbases.

[Duvall]

I am not trolling - my point was (and continues to be) that the Yankees win WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS, including 6 in the last 10 years,

Look, why don't you come back when you have your facts straight, and an argument worth making? I'm sure we'll get off to a better start then.

[DankeShane]

The original post compared Duke to the Yankees. In my opinion, they are only comparable in that the fan bases are geographically similar.

I am not trolling - my point was (and continues to be) that the Yankees win WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS, including 6 in the last 10 years, whereas Duke has won 1 in the last 14. So...not so much, and the original post is incorrect in my opinion. Hence my point that Duke is more like the Angels, who have also won 1 championship title in the last 14 years.

If you want to discuss ACC regular season success (and clearly you do and should, given how well Duke has done), then as I stated, the more apt comparison is to the Braves, who do well in the regular season, and then crap the bed when the post season comes calling. Nothing to be ashamed of, but let's differentiate between the Yankees success and Duke's.

I agree. I absolutely despise the Duke = Yankees comparison, because even though lots of people hate the Yankees, they have the largest base of support in baseball. I saw a poll on ESPN last year where people voted on their favorite club and the Yankees eclipsed everyone else, it was like 40% of all voters said they were Yankees fans, the next closest was 15% Red Sox or something.

Not only is Duke loathed, but we have to have one of the smallest fan bases in college sports of the major schools.

[throatybeard]

In the last 10 seasons (1997-2006), the NYY have three titles, in 1998, 1999 and 2000. Not six. They also had one in 1996.

As to the purported similar degree to which the Braves and Duke are "crapping the bed" in the post season, the comparison is irrelevant.

The Braves and the NYY play in a best-of-5/7 eight-team (three-round) tournament, founded upon a six-month RS. Duke plays in a single-elimination, 64-team (six round) tournament, founded on basically a 3-month RS. The comparison is apples to broccolini.

[bird]

In soccer I hear discussion sometimes whether a game result is "fair" -- which I take to mean that the score actually reflects the comparative quality of play on the field. Soccer results can be random, a lucky strike can outweigh otherwise dominant play.

Which leads me to the following point: the amount of randomness (luck) in deciding game outcomes varies between sports.

My guess is that the results of (American) football games more closely track the actual quality of the teams and play in an individual game than most major sports. On the other hand, results in individual baseball games are comparatively random. Hence, a one-game championship is OK in football, but a multigame series is needed in baseball.

I would rank college basketball as more random than the average sport. Indeed, I think the randomness is quite comparable to baseball.

Here's how I would rank some sports from less random to more random:

Swimming
Track (running events)
NFL football
(American) collegiate football
Ice Hockey
NBA basketball
Collegiate basketball
Soccer
LAX
ML Baseball

[kjo3444]

In the last 10 seasons (1997-2006), the NYY have three titles, in 1998, 1999 and 2000. Not six. They also had one in 1996.

As to the purported similar degree to which the Braves and Duke are "crapping the bed" in the post season, the comparison is irrelevant.

The Braves and the NYY play in a best-of-5/7 eight-team (three-round) tournament, founded upon a six-month RS. Duke plays in a single-elimination, 64-team (six round) tournament, founded on basically a 3-month RS. The comparison is apples to broccolini.

Regardless of whether it is 6 or 4, both are still way more than 1 in 14.

You are correct in that the formats of the seasons (RS and Post) are apples to broccolini. The original point made that i am refuting was the overall success of the two teams.

Again, the Yankees win WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS (4 in 11 years, as my researchers have since confirmed). Duke doesn't - Duke does well in the regular season. Your format discussion may explain some of the "WHYs", but it doesn't address the fact that the RESULTS (the original point) are apples to broccolini.

[oso diablo]

And even if all the Duke fans think it was an accident, there's no way to convince anybody else to believe that.

you're probably right, but i'm just going to tell folks that i agree with Coach Williams and Wayne Ellington.

[phaedrus]

I would rank college basketball as more random than the average sport. Indeed, I think the randomness is quite comparable to baseball.

Here's how I would rank some sports from less random to more random:

Swimming
Track (running events)
NFL football
(American) collegiate football
Ice Hockey
NBA basketball
Collegiate basketball
Soccer
LAX
ML Baseball

maybe true if you're talking about a single game, but if you're talking about winning championships, the 7-game series are necessarily least random, and 6 consecutive single-elimination games are most random (although sometimes a college football season is basically 12 single-elimination games). how many championships would we have since '99 if they played 7-game series? 99? 00? 02? 04? 05? 06? how often does the best team in the country win? half the time, if that? it's the nature of college basketball - you get the most exciting weeks in sports, you lose a fair way to reward the best team.

[throatybeard]

As long as you're snipping on the front end (1996) and ignoring the previous 18 years when the NYY didn't do a thing, please note that Duke won 3 titles in 11 seasons.

[basketball_fan]

Ok...Boston College January 28, 2007. Duke is up by 12 with 1:09 to play. Henderson checks in to join McRoberts, Paulus, Nelson, and Scheyer. Paulus hits Nelson for a layup with :24 left. All five players are on the court when the game ends.

If you want one specific to UNC, go back to the 2003 ACC Tourney. Chris Duhon plays the entire 40 minutes even though Duke is up 17 (after a Duhon assist) with 1:00 minute to play.

This tactic of leaving starters in at the end of a game, even with a double digit lead, is not unique to UNC.