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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    FB: Duke v. Wake Forest Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

    Well its officially game week and our guys are getting ready to take on Wake Forest a 12:00 p.m. this Saturday (televised on Raycom), so I figured it was about time for us to start prepping too. I think this game is going to tell us a whole lot about the rest of the season.

    Oh, and if you can make it, go to the game! I went two years ago and it was a blast (despite the final score), the Duke section was really rocking that game! I can't make it this year unfortunately, but hopefully we have another good turnout there.

    Wake has won 10 in a row...lets end another losing streak on Saturday! GO DUKE!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    I think this game is going to tell us a whole lot about the rest of the season.
    This is a very important game for both teams. The winner will be in great shape going forward toward bowl eligibility, while the loser will find themselves swimming upstream. Duke must stop Wake Forest's running game as I believe the Demon Deacons will run the ball and then run it some more until we prove we can stop them. I sure the coaching staff is hard at work formulating our defensive strategy. On offense, Sean Renfree proved against Elon he has full control of the team's formidable offensive weapons so I'm confident we can score points when we have the ball. Time of possession and turnovers (as always) will be key statistics in what I expect to be a high scoring game. We will need to run the ball to win.

    Just for fun: Duke 38 - Wake Forest 35.
    Last edited by Bob Green; 09-06-2010 at 01:42 PM. Reason: Spelling
    Bob Green
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    We will need to run the ball to win.
    My son and I went to the Elon game and will also go to the Wake game. My observation was like those on the Elon game thread, the offensive line was great at protecting Renfree for the passing game, but had difficulty opening holes up the middle.

    Would a short passing game with screens and dump-offs to running backs be just as affective as establishing a running game up the middle?

  4. #4
    Dev11's Avatar
    Dev11 is offline Commissioner of Statistics, DBR Podcast
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    Would a short passing game with screens and dump-offs to running backs be just as affective as establishing a running game up the middle?
    Perhaps against opponents with mediocre defenses, but if we start ticking off the number of teams we need to beat to get to a bowl game, the running game will need to improve. Optimism abounds after seeing the performances put in by Snead and Scott on Saturday, and if Cut ever decides to really give Connette the ball in meaningful situations, our offense will be as explosive as any in the ACC.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dev11 View Post
    Perhaps against opponents with mediocre defenses, but if we start ticking off the number of teams we need to beat to get to a bowl game, the running game will need to improve. Optimism abounds after seeing the performances put in by Snead and Scott on Saturday, and if Cut ever decides to really give Connette the ball in meaningful situations, our offense will be as explosive as any in the ACC.
    Agreed...I wonder if we'll ever line him up at a position other than QB in certain situations to make more use of him while he plays behind Renfree?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dev11 View Post
    and if Cut ever decides to really give Connette the ball in meaningful situations, our offense will be as explosive as any in the ACC.
    I'm a bit perplexed by this observation. Do you feel that Connette should be playing more instead of Renfree or do you feel that Connette should be playing at a different position?

    I think it's a little early to see Connette as the key to making Duke's offense even more explosive.

  7. #7
    Not related to this game, but watching MD-NAVY, I just realized:

    Duke plays FOUR teams this year that basically rush 90% of the time. That's a full 1/3 of the schedule! Has that ever happened before?

    (And with a team that's weak in the secondary, this seems like a good development)
    <devildeac> anyone playing drinking games by now?
    7:49:36<Wander> drink every qb run?
    7:49:38<loran16> umm, drink every time asack rushes?
    7:49:38<wolfybeard> @devildeac: drink when Asack runs a keeper
    7:49:39 PM<CB&B> any time zack runs, drink

    Carolina Delenda Est

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dev11 View Post
    and if Cut ever decides to really give Connette the ball in meaningful situations, our offense will be as explosive as any in the ACC.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    I'm a bit perplexed by this observation. Do you feel that Connette should be playing more instead of Renfree or do you feel that Connette should be playing at a different position?

    I think it's a little early to see Connette as the key to making Duke's offense even more explosive.
    Sounds like Dev11 is emulating another friend of ours here and substituting Connette for Zac Asack and Renfree for Thad Lewis. In Cutcliffe I trust. He knows what the hell he's doing when it comes to QB's, both how to develop them and how to use them.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    Sounds like Dev11 is emulating another friend of ours here and substituting Connette for Zac Asack and Renfree for Thad Lewis. In Cutcliffe I trust. He knows what the hell he's doing when it comes to QB's, both how to develop them and how to use them.
    See my signature. (Though Connette has to be better than Asack, I'm just saying).
    <devildeac> anyone playing drinking games by now?
    7:49:36<Wander> drink every qb run?
    7:49:38<loran16> umm, drink every time asack rushes?
    7:49:38<wolfybeard> @devildeac: drink when Asack runs a keeper
    7:49:39 PM<CB&B> any time zack runs, drink

    Carolina Delenda Est

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    My son and I went to the Elon game and will also go to the Wake game. My observation was like those on the Elon game thread, the offensive line was great at protecting Renfree for the passing game, but had difficulty opening holes up the middle.

    Would a short passing game with screens and dump-offs to running backs be just as affective as establishing a running game up the middle?
    This is basically how the West Coast offense works. The idea is that these play give you many of the same things you get from running. They're high consistency plays that (hopefully) cause the defense to tighten up and open deep plays. You still need enough of a running game to grind clock late, but the short passing game sets up draws (which were some of our more effective running plays vs. Elon). However, these types of plays don't set up play action. Our success running against Elon may have been mixed, but we did it often enough and well enough that they had to respect it on the play action, which made up many of our successful passes.

    However, the system as it is traditionally practiced is very complicated. The quarterback is usually making passes before the recievers actually cut, based on reads made prior to the snap. The recievers have a lot of pass patterns to memorize, some of which are option routes where they need to make the same read as the QB, or the play won't work. On a pro team, there's usually plenty of time to learn the offense provided you can retain some key players. On a college team, you've got less experienced players and less time to teach the system.

    Having said that, there is merit to using shovels and screens as "long handoffs". They provide a way to use recievers as runners, which makes sense for us (since our recievers are our best playmakers). Our WRs are our biggest playmakers, and this would give us an extra way to get them in on the action. We could get a simillar effect with the occasional jet sweep or end around. However, this doesn't really fix the issue of run blocking (screens usually still require blocking from a puller, and the end around exacerbates the problem by developing slowly).

    One thing I noticed on a few plays was motioning a tight end to the H-back position. I think this was intended to improve run blocking by giving us a lead blocker (since we don't usually use a fullback), but it didn't look like it was executed effectively.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by loran16 View Post
    Not related to this game, but watching MD-NAVY, I just realized:

    Duke plays FOUR teams this year that basically rush 90% of the time. That's a full 1/3 of the schedule! Has that ever happened before?

    (And with a team that's weak in the secondary, this seems like a good development)
    I don't see it as a good development. I recall the Carolina game last year where Ryan Houston absolutely killed us on the ground. Navy and Army are a different ballgame altogether from GTech, because GTech has a QB who can pass half-decently and takes care of the football a lot better, too. And VTech, who runs a lot (I presume that's the 4th?) does a lot of running through their mobile QB - that's something we've had trouble with in the past.

  12. #12

    Duke/Wake bowl chances

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    This is a very important game for both teams. The winner will be in great shape going forward toward bowl eligibility, while the loser will find themselves swimming upstream.
    This is absolutely true. Duke plays a pretty nasty schedule this year, and it is imperative that they win all the "winnable" games. Otherwise, they put themselves in a situation where in order to become bowl eligible, they have to pull something off against a highly ranked opponent.

    I think, realistically, we will lose one game we "ought" to win, and I hope we are able to surprise someone in the national polls.

    My prediction is that Duke/UNC will be our bowl "play-in" game. Settle in for a fantastic season!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by PumpkinFunk View Post
    I don't see it as a good development. I recall the Carolina game last year where Ryan Houston absolutely killed us on the ground. Navy and Army are a different ballgame altogether from GTech, because GTech has a QB who can pass half-decently and takes care of the football a lot better, too. And VTech, who runs a lot (I presume that's the 4th?) does a lot of running through their mobile QB - that's something we've had trouble with in the past.
    The Fourth is Maryland, who passed less than Navy yesterday.
    <devildeac> anyone playing drinking games by now?
    7:49:36<Wander> drink every qb run?
    7:49:38<loran16> umm, drink every time asack rushes?
    7:49:38<wolfybeard> @devildeac: drink when Asack runs a keeper
    7:49:39 PM<CB&B> any time zack runs, drink

    Carolina Delenda Est

  14. #14
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by PumpkinFunk View Post
    I don't see it as a good development. I recall the Carolina game last year where Ryan Houston absolutely killed us on the ground. Navy and Army are a different ballgame altogether from GTech, because GTech has a QB who can pass half-decently and takes care of the football a lot better, too. And VTech, who runs a lot (I presume that's the 4th?) does a lot of running through their mobile QB - that's something we've had trouble with in the past.
    Right. We need to be careful about projecting too much from one game - just because Duke struggled defensively against one pass-happy opponent doesn't mean that Duke's run defense isn't also problematic. Given the troubled state of Duke's defensive line, that's probably the case.

  15. #15
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    Looks like Wake is getting 2 players back earlier than expected earlier than expected. Givens (lead the team in touchdown receptions with 8 as a sophomore) and Smith (backup DE who played every game last season) were originally suspended for 2 games for violating team rules, but had that reduced to 1 game after practice yesterday. Looks like their QB will have a little more help against us...

  16. #16
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    Norfolk, VA
    Here is a nice article on Sean Renfree and Ted Stachitas:

    http://fayobserver.com/articles/2010...637?sac=Sports

    the article doesn't contain any new information, but it is always nice to see Duke receive attention in the press.
    Bob Green
    DBR Survivor Football Champion
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    Looks like Wake is getting 2 players back earlier than expected earlier than expected. Givens (lead the team in touchdown receptions with 8 as a sophomore) and Smith (backup DE who played every game last season) were originally suspended for 2 games for violating team rules, but had that reduced to 1 game after practice yesterday. Looks like their QB will have a little more help against us...
    "If you're scared, say you're scared." Wake's calling in reinforcements already.




    (Acy -- how was the view of the game from the folks in Elon?)

  18. #18
    Duke needs to pin their ears back and rock WF like they did NC State last year. Wake is younger than normal but Grobe is too good of a coach to discount. You don't make mistakes against his teams or he makes you pay. Duke wants a bowl, they need to win Saturday. The Bama game is not as important as Wake.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Right. We need to be careful about projecting too much from one game - just because Duke struggled defensively against one pass-happy opponent doesn't mean that Duke's run defense isn't also problematic. Given the troubled state of Duke's defensive line, that's probably the case.
    Yep, especially since the improved secondary was supposed to be a relative strength going into the season, while the D-line was a major weakness.

    I think our best hope for this game is that our blitz schemes consistently get to Wake's freshman QB, and he gets rattled and taken out of his game. The big key for this will be if our exposed secondary is aware of the action (and looking for the ball more), and not giving up huge plays on simple mistakes... they'll need to hold their own without too much help.

    I think that will be a recurring theme this season... our defense will need to be blitzing and attacking to be effective, but this will put more pressure on the secondary to be solid and reliable when left in single coverage.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RelativeWays View Post
    Duke needs to pin their ears back and rock WF like they did NC State last year. Wake is younger than normal but Grobe is too good of a coach to discount. You don't make mistakes against his teams or he makes you pay. Duke wants a bowl, they need to win Saturday. The Bama game is not as important as Wake.
    I'm positive Cutcliffe and the team both are focused on Wake only..but Alabama is a huge distraction. Cutcliffe talked to the team about it, how it will be hard to avoid the comments from friends and family, and even more than that the ticket requests. But they will all be focused. You are exactly right on Grobe. I'm thinking Elon exposed more for him and his staff than Wake's blowout win showed Cut and company. I'm expecting another classic battle between these two teams.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

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