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  1. #1

    Roy Williams Needs the Waaaaambulance...

    What were your impressions of the game tonight?
    “It was unfortunate. Again, we spent the whole night watching them shoot free throws. I didn’t feel that things were going the way that I would like for them to at any point with that part of it. But the first quarter we came out and we weren’t intense at all. We weren’t aggressive at all. They were much more aggressive than we were. Then I think we started playing better. The whole part of the game, though – the middle of the second quarter we started making some shots and in the third quarter we came out and we made a bunch of shots and that’s when, all of a sudden, the lead expanded. We made several threes and then, all of a sudden, they started missing some shots and [had] long rebounds.

    “And we went 2-3 zone. I honestly can’t remember any time in my life I’ve ever played a 2-3 zone – just a straight 2-3 zone. We’ve matched up at times, but we just did that because I didn’t know if we were going to have enough people to finish the game because of the foul situation. At one point tonight, they had shot 46 free throws and we had shot 22, so we just did that to have enough people to finish the game.”

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Bowie, Maryland

    Question

    How is Carolina allowed by the NCAA to play a game this early? I thought there were rules that prohibited teams working out together in the summer?
    The Terrapin Assassin

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Roxboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedevil114 View Post
    How is Carolina allowed by the NCAA to play a game this early? I thought there were rules that prohibited teams working out together in the summer?
    College teams are allowed one overseas exhibition trip every five years under NCAA rules.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedevil114 View Post
    How is Carolina allowed by the NCAA to play a game this early? I thought there were rules that prohibited teams working out together in the summer?
    I guess you don't remember that Duke did it a few years back and UNC also did it back in 2005.

    I think the two teams that UNC faced combined to make 78 pts from the line while UNC took only 64 free throws combined for the two games. That seems like a huge disparity from the line, especially since UNC gets all the calls!

    Player FG-FGA 3FG-FGA FT-FTA
    Reb.
    O-D-Total
    PF TP A TO B S Min
    Dexter Strickland* 3-7 0-0 4-5 0 1 1 4 10 5 2 0 0 28
    Kendall Marshall* 3-6 0-1 0-0 3 1 4 3 6 8 2 0 2 30
    John Henson* 6-10 1-1 3-9 5 10 15 3 16 2 2 2 0 27
    Harrison Barnes* 9-13 4-5 1-2 3 2 5 5 23 2 3 0 1 28
    Tyler Zeller* 5-9 0-0 4-4 3 3 6 5 14 2 0 1 0 15
    Leslie McDonald 8-13 2-5 7-8 0 2 2 4 25 0 1 0 0 17
    Will Graves 3-5 1-2 0-0 2 3 5 4 7 1 0 0 0 13
    Justin Watts 2-7 0-2 1-2 1 3 4 2 5 2 2 1 1 15
    Reggie Bullock 6-11 2-4 3-3 1 5 6 2 17 1 1 0 2 26
    Team 0 1 0 0 3 0 0
    Totals 45-81 10-20 23-33 18 30 48 32 123 23 16 4 6 199
    FG% 1st Half: 20-39 51.3% 2nd Half: 25-42 59.5% Game: 45-81 55.6%
    3FG% 1st Half: 3-9 33.3% 2nd Half: 7-11 63.6% Game: 10-20 50.0 %
    FT% 1st Half: 10-16 62.5% 2nd Half: 13-17 76.5% Game: 22-33 69.7%
    Deadball rebounds: 11


    This is the UNC box score from last night. On Wednesday, Zeller had 25 pts and 14 reb. and Strickland had around 25 pts. HB had over 20 pts in both games. Seems like Strickland will start over Bullock, at least at this point.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Roxboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    This is the UNC box score from last night. On Wednesday, Zeller had 25 pts and 14 reb. and Strickland had around 25 pts. HB had over 20 pts in both games. Seems like Strickland will start over Bullock, at least at this point.
    It looks like Zeller and Watts both played 15 minutes while Henson played 27. Was this consistent with the first game?

    After reading further, Zeller finished with 14 pts and 6 reb but 5 fouls, so maybe that is why he only played 15 minutes.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by nocilla View Post
    It looks like Zeller and Watts both played 15 minutes while Henson played 27. Was this consistent with the first game?

    After reading further, Zeller finished with 14 pts and 6 reb but 5 fouls, so maybe that is why he only played 15 minutes.

    It did appear to be a foul fest. LD2 didn't play either game because of a twisted ankle. Looks like he could have played but Roy didn't want to risk it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    especially since UNC gets all the calls!
    kong...that's OLD School....everyone knows that Butler gets all the calls now....

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by dougc33 View Post
    What were your impressions of the game tonight?
    “It was unfortunate. Again, we spent the whole night watching them shoot free throws. I didn’t feel that things were going the way that I would like for them to at any point with that part of it. But the first quarter we came out and we weren’t intense at all. We weren’t aggressive at all. They were much more aggressive than we were. Then I think we started playing better. The whole part of the game, though – the middle of the second quarter we started making some shots and in the third quarter we came out and we made a bunch of shots and that’s when, all of a sudden, the lead expanded. We made several threes and then, all of a sudden, they started missing some shots and [had] long rebounds.

    “And we went 2-3 zone. I honestly can’t remember any time in my life I’ve ever played a 2-3 zone – just a straight 2-3 zone. We’ve matched up at times, but we just did that because I didn’t know if we were going to have enough people to finish the game because of the foul situation. At one point tonight, they had shot 46 free throws and we had shot 22, so we just did that to have enough people to finish the game.”
    We need those refs to call ALL their ACC games this year.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    I guess you don't remember that Duke did it a few years back and UNC also did it back in 2005.

    I think the two teams that UNC faced combined to make 78 pts from the line while UNC took only 64 free throws combined for the two games. That seems like a huge disparity from the line, especially since UNC gets all the calls!

    Player FG-FGA 3FG-FGA FT-FTA
    Reb.
    O-D-Total
    PF TP A TO B S Min
    Dexter Strickland* 3-7 0-0 4-5 0 1 1 4 10 5 2 0 0 28
    Kendall Marshall* 3-6 0-1 0-0 3 1 4 3 6 8 2 0 2 30
    John Henson* 6-10 1-1 3-9 5 10 15 3 16 2 2 2 0 27
    Harrison Barnes* 9-13 4-5 1-2 3 2 5 5 23 2 3 0 1 28
    Tyler Zeller* 5-9 0-0 4-4 3 3 6 5 14 2 0 1 0 15
    Leslie McDonald 8-13 2-5 7-8 0 2 2 4 25 0 1 0 0 17
    Will Graves 3-5 1-2 0-0 2 3 5 4 7 1 0 0 0 13
    Justin Watts 2-7 0-2 1-2 1 3 4 2 5 2 2 1 1 15
    Reggie Bullock 6-11 2-4 3-3 1 5 6 2 17 1 1 0 2 26
    Team 0 1 0 0 3 0 0
    Totals 45-81 10-20 23-33 18 30 48 32 123 23 16 4 6 199
    FG% 1st Half: 20-39 51.3% 2nd Half: 25-42 59.5% Game: 45-81 55.6%
    3FG% 1st Half: 3-9 33.3% 2nd Half: 7-11 63.6% Game: 10-20 50.0 %
    FT% 1st Half: 10-16 62.5% 2nd Half: 13-17 76.5% Game: 22-33 69.7%
    Deadball rebounds: 11


    This is the UNC box score from last night. On Wednesday, Zeller had 25 pts and 14 reb. and Strickland had around 25 pts. HB had over 20 pts in both games. Seems like Strickland will start over Bullock, at least at this point.
    Actually with Zeller and Barnes both fouled out, and Macdonald, Graves and Strickland all with 4 fouls, Roy had to go with a 2-3 zone just to have someone besides Henson-Watts-Bullock-Marshall to put on the floor.

    Without Larry Drew II and Justin Knox, I would not read too much into minutes played to infer starters or actual PT come OOC.

    You know Zeller is going to start but based on this game top minutes went to Henson-Barnes-Bullock- Strickland-Marshall, two sophs and three frosh.

    Even without the fouls, Roy would want to give his frosh plenty of reps against the inferior competition.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ACCBBallFan View Post
    Actually with Zeller and Barnes both fouled out, and Macdonald, Graves and Strickland all with 4 fouls, Roy had to go with a 2-3 zone just to have someone besides Henson-Watts-Bullock-Marshall to put on the floor.

    Without Larry Drew II and Justin Knox, I would not read too much into minutes played to infer starters or actual PT come OOC.

    You know Zeller is going to start but based on this game top minutes went to Henson-Barnes-Bullock- Strickland-Marshall, two sophs and three frosh.

    Even without the fouls, Roy would want to give his frosh plenty of reps against the inferior competition.
    Am I reading the box correctly, and that Marshall had 8 assists to 2 turnovers?? Eventhough it was against inferior competition, I have to admit that it's still a pretty nice stat. It will be interesting to see if Roy goes with Strickland first as the back-up point ahead of Marshall during the regular season. The Raleigh News and Observer mentioned Strickland as the point guard for the team during their games in the Bahamas.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    I guess you don't remember that Duke did it a few years back and UNC also did it back in 2005.
    I remember Duke doing that and so far we've only done it one time for the men's team. There is nothing illegal about these trips; but I really wonder how effective they are in preparing teams for the regular season when you are playing against such inferior opponents. I realize the benefit is the extra practice time and supposed bonding time; but once the trip is over, you still have to wait about 2 months before practiciing again. So whatever you gained during the trip, you have to rebuild (IMO) that back again once the official practice season begins.

    A person could argue that these types of trips worked really well for UNC 5 years ago; and the jury is still out on how well it will make this UNC team become; but I still wonder if that time spend really does make a team better. Personally, I think having players hangout together and playing pick-up ball during the summer as well as doing the private scrimmages in the fall are much better for improving team chemistry and skills than these trips.
    Last edited by JBDuke; 08-13-2010 at 01:19 PM. Reason: fixed quote tag

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Talking Duke Overseas Trips

    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kong123 View Post
    I guess you don't remember that Duke did it a few years back and UNC also did it back in 2005.
    I remember Duke doing that and so far we've only done it one time for the men's team. There is nothing illegal about these trips; but I really wonder how effective they are in preparing teams for the regular season when you are playing against such inferior opponents. I realize the benefit is the extra practice time and supposed bonding time; but once the trip is over, you still have to wait about 2 months before practiciing again. So whatever you gained during the trip, you have to rebuild (IMO) that back again once the official practice season begins.
    Actually Duke has had three overseas trips, two back in the 1980s and a 2002 trip to the Bahamas during the four-day fall break in early October. [See link from the Duke hoops book by John Roth.] This last, needless to say, raised some eyebrows, although legal under the rules at the time. Trips are allowed when schools are not in session. The 2002 trip -- advantageous for an inexperienced team after the loss of JWill, Dunleavy, and Boozer -- enabled Duke to essentially have Midnight Madness in late September. Yikes!!! What a stink that caused. The rules were thereafter changed.

    sagegrouse

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Actually Duke has had three overseas trips, two back in the 1980s and a 2002 trip to the Bahamas during the four-day fall break in early October.
    I thought the 2002 trip was to England, not the Bahamas.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom B. View Post
    I thought the 2002 trip was to England, not the Bahamas.
    Wow, was it really that long ago? IIRC, I believe it was England also.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Talking London, not the Bahamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom B. View Post
    I thought the 2002 trip was to England, not the Bahamas.
    You are absolutely correct! I didn't even read the whole piece I cited. Here's the skinny on overseas trips --

    1983: France
    1988: Spain and Greece, including some tournaments. IT was here that undersized center John Smith became a three-point shooter.
    2002: London, for a couple of exhibitions

    I still think I remember a Bahamas trip, but maybe it was the women's team.

    sagegrouse

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Partly Orlando, FL partly heard Sandpoint, ID
    Having attended the games in London, yes, they were there. The women, back in 2004, played in the Junkanoo Jam down in the Bahamas, but that was a tournament that was part of the regular season a la the Maui Classic type event.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Actually Duke has had three overseas trips, two back in the 1980s and a 2002 trip to the Bahamas during the four-day fall break in early October. [See link from the Duke hoops book by John Roth.] This last, needless to say, raised some eyebrows, although legal under the rules at the time. Trips are allowed when schools are not in session. The 2002 trip -- advantageous for an inexperienced team after the loss of JWill, Dunleavy, and Boozer -- enabled Duke to essentially have Midnight Madness in late September. Yikes!!! What a stink that caused. The rules were thereafter changed.

    sagegrouse
    I stand corrected...Thanks for the clarification. But my point is still the same in that I wonder how much the overseas trips really help and prepare a team for the regular season.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    I stand corrected...Thanks for the clarification. But my point is still the same in that I wonder how much the overseas trips really help and prepare a team for the regular season.
    Can't hurt. And I remember when this rule first came in, and Duke was one of the first to use it, everyone crabbed that K was taking some unfair advantage.

    With a young team, coming off a dysfunctional year, any time together with the coaches has to be a good thing I would think.

  19. #19

    overseas trips

    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Actually Duke has had three overseas trips, two back in the 1980s and a 2002 trip to the Bahamas during the four-day fall break in early October. [See link from the Duke hoops book by John Roth.] This last, needless to say, raised some eyebrows, although legal under the rules at the time. Trips are allowed when schools are not in session. The 2002 trip -- advantageous for an inexperienced team after the loss of JWill, Dunleavy, and Boozer -- enabled Duke to essentially have Midnight Madness in late September. Yikes!!! What a stink that caused. The rules were thereafter changed.

    sagegrouse
    The reason the 2002 trip to London caused such a stink was two-fold. The main one was that by going in October, instead of the summer, K was able to take along his freshmen.

    Under the rules at the time, only upperclassmen could make the overseas trip in the summer. When Duke went to Spain in the summer of '83, it really helped Dawkins, Alarie, Henderson and company -- but incoming point guard Tommy Amaker couldn't join them.

    A summer trip in 2002 wouldn't have helped a lot for a team that was going to be heavily dependent on freshmen (three started the 2002-03 opener -- Redick, Williams and Randolph with Dockery, Melchionni and Thompson off the bench). By going in October, the freshmen were enrolled and eligible for the 10 days of pretrip practice and the tour ... and the timing worked out that when they returned just in time for the official Oct. 15 start of practice -- giving that team a huge head start.

    You are daggum right that outsiders -- especially the UNC crowd -- screamed bloody murder.

    But there was another element to the trip -- that fall, Duke's top recruiting target was Luol Deng, the nation's No. 2 rated prospect (behind a guy named LeBron James). Deng just happened to be from London ... although he was in prep school in Connecticut at the time, his parents were still in London and the trip gave K and his staff a chance to court them.

    Oh the horror! Oh the outrage!

    Of course, everything K did was perfectly legal -- he was just the first to realize the benefits of taking the NCAA-allowed foreign tour in October instead of July or August. Within a year, other coaches were doing it too ... all over the country (in fact, I think -- not sure -- that UNC's 2005 trip to the Bahamas was in the fall).

    The NCAA recently changed its rules to allow freshmen who were (1) enrolled in summer school and (2) cleared by the NCAA clearinghouse to join their team on foreign trips. That's why its perfectly legal for UNC to take Prince Harry and Reggie Blowhard along with them.

    PS Duke basketball history was impacted by another foreign trip --one they didn't take. K had scheduled a tour of Australia for the summer of 1994, but when he saw the spring semester grades of his team, he was so disappointed with their performance that he cancelled the trip and suggested they needed to spend the offseason in summer school. Well, the Aussie promotors protested to the new Duke president, Nan Keohane, about K's decision, and her response was to suggest that K didn't have the authority to make that decision without administrative approval. The whole thing precipitated a showdown as K publically flirted with a job offer from the Portland Trail Blazers over a long weekend until Nan got the message that K runs the basketball program. He never had any interference from her after that.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    The reason the 2002 trip to London caused such a stink was two-fold. The main one was that by going in October, instead of the summer, K was able to take along his freshmen.

    Under the rules at the time, only upperclassmen could make the overseas trip in the summer. When Duke went to Spain in the summer of '83, it really helped Dawkins, Alarie, Henderson and company -- but incoming point guard Tommy Amaker couldn't join them.

    A summer trip in 2002 wouldn't have helped a lot for a team that was going to be heavily dependent on freshmen (three started the 2002-03 opener -- Redick, Williams and Randolph with Dockery, Melchionni and Thompson off the bench). By going in October, the freshmen were enrolled and eligible for the 10 days of pretrip practice and the tour ... and the timing worked out that when they returned just in time for the official Oct. 15 start of practice -- giving that team a huge head start.

    You are daggum right that outsiders -- especially the UNC crowd -- screamed bloody murder.

    But there was another element to the trip -- that fall, Duke's top recruiting target was Luol Deng, the nation's No. 2 rated prospect (behind a guy named LeBron James). Deng just happened to be from London ... although he was in prep school in Connecticut at the time, his parents were still in London and the trip gave K and his staff a chance to court them.

    Oh the horror! Oh the outrage!

    Of course, everything K did was perfectly legal -- he was just the first to realize the benefits of taking the NCAA-allowed foreign tour in October instead of July or August. Within a year, other coaches were doing it too ... all over the country (in fact, I think -- not sure -- that UNC's 2005 trip to the Bahamas was in the fall).

    The NCAA recently changed its rules to allow freshmen who were (1) enrolled in summer school and (2) cleared by the NCAA clearinghouse to join their team on foreign trips. That's why its perfectly legal for UNC to take Prince Harry and Reggie Blowhard along with them.

    PS Duke basketball history was impacted by another foreign trip --one they didn't take. K had scheduled a tour of Australia for the summer of 1994, but when he saw the spring semester grades of his team, he was so disappointed with their performance that he cancelled the trip and suggested they needed to spend the offseason in summer school. Well, the Aussie promotors protested to the new Duke president, Nan Keohane, about K's decision, and her response was to suggest that K didn't have the authority to make that decision without administrative approval. The whole thing precipitated a showdown as K publically flirted with a job offer from the Portland Trail Blazers over a long weekend until Nan got the message that K runs the basketball program. He never had any interference from her after that.
    Another great in-depth history lesson. Thank you.

    Reggie Blowhard (heh-heh)-we have a winner


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