Inception discussion thread (with spoilers)

[camion]

I am going to spend waaaay too much time reading that page, Murpho!!

--Jason "I am starting to see a clear argument in favor of ending is a dream and a clear argument against it" Evans

I'm sure we all know the ambiguity of the ending is intentional. If there are good arguments both ways then it would seem the intent to ambiguity was successful.


Or was it?

[bfree]

This is fascinating, the actor who played Yusuf talked to NY Magazine about the story, he seems as confused as the rest of us:

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment...o_answers.html

[JasonEvans]

This is fascinating, the actor who played Yusuf talked to NY Magazine about the story, he seems as confused as the rest of us:

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment...o_answers.html

Great article! I especially loved the insight in this line:

Everyone's so concerned about whether the top falls or not, but no one seems to care that Leo walked away without caring. The moment he sees (his children's) faces, he can walk away.

--Jason "I've just become a big Dileep Rao fan!" Evans

[brevity]

--Jason "I've just become a big Dileep Rao fan!" Evans

I was about to post the same article. He has an interesting past, too, with his Jeopardy! and NPR appearances.

I didn't love the central thesis of this analysis from CHUD, but did like the comparison of Cobb's team to a group of filmmakers. I don't think Nolan was making as strong a statement about cinema as Tarantino did with Inglourious Basterds (i.e. people in Hollywood should be more actively political instead of less), but the idea that they share some DNA is appealing.

[JasonEvans]

The theory that the entire movie is a dream seems to be the hip one going around right now. I've read a few columns/blogs about that lately including the one from CHUD.

It may be, but I would hate that explanation. I don't want the entire movie to be a dream (did Bobby Ewing just walk out of the shower?). even if you can piece together scraps here and there that might support that theory, I don't see Chris Nolan doing something like that and giving us real clues to it throughout the movie. What would be the point?

I'll say this-- I can't remember the last time there was a film that inspired so much analysis and discussion and thought. It is a sign of what a wonderful flick this was that so many people care about it and have feelings about it after seeing it.

--Jason "now-- lets all go see it again so the boxoffice numbers climb higher and higher!" Evans

[murpho]

One of the other things that really makes this film great is that even if you don't want to get into the whole analysis of what is going on at the end and throughout is that the film is just "fun" to watch. Visually great, good humor interwoven throughout, great action scenes. Add the whole "what just happened" after you've watched it and that just helps increases the enjoyment this movie provides.

[snowdenscold]

It's neat how they ended the movie with an element of mystery and debate, however, I think the implications of the "it was a dream" theory undermine it. It would essentially be having a twist just for the sake of a twist. Besides, wouldn't he have seen the top stop spinning at some point previous?

[snowdenscold]

In the previously linked article, they differentiate between the Subject and the Dreamer. I (in my first post) thought they were the same. Are they actually different?

[JasonEvans]

Here is a somewhat amusing column from Deadspin about Inception. The author says Inception has become the new thing for fanboys to obsess about and over-analyze. The language in it make it NSFW.

You could dissect this movie to death for ages if you like, and plenty of people already have begun doing this. It's basically supplanted "Lost" for all your theorizing needs. And now I'm reading all these ideas and theories about the flick and it's making me question what I saw and rethink whether or not I had a good time watching it and it's driving me up the !#$%!ing wall. Did I like that? I seemed to when I left the theater. Was that a genuine reaction, OR WAS THAT A DREAM OF SOME KIND?!

Sorta funny.

--Jason "now, lets get back to the theories!!" Evans

[Mike Corey]

I really like the movie as autobiography of Nolan's life as a filmmaker theory.

Perhaps we're spelling Dom's last name incorrectly, and it should be "cob" as in "cob spider" weaving a story for us to follow.

I think there are at least three layers to interpreting this movie, and the least subtle of which is Nolan's insertion of Greek Mythology with the inclusion of Ariadne as the architect. How deeply to pursue that line of thought? I don't know. With Ariadne you draw in Theseus, the minotaur and his labyrinth, the labyrinth's designers Daedelus and Icarus, King Minos, and so forth.

[SuperTurkey]

Well, I assumed the Ariadne angle principally related to her namesake's role giving Theseus a way out of the labyrinth with a ball of thread. Seems to fit her role at the climax of the movie leading Cobb to deal with Mal and find his way back via Saito, possibly giving credence to a theory that Cobb was successful in the end.

[SuperTurkey]

According to IMDB, Inception is the 3rd highest rated movie of all time behind only Shawshank and Godfather I. Seems like a bit much.

[Jderf]

It's neat how they ended the movie with an element of mystery and debate, however, I think the implications of the "it was a dream" theory undermine it. It would essentially be having a twist just for the sake of a twist. Besides, wouldn't he have seen the top stop spinning at some point previous?

First venture into the off-topic section of the boards, so here goes. I don't think the possibility that it was all just a dream undermines the film at all. In fact, it fulfills it. The way I see it, the film ties in heavily with the Duhem-Quine thesis: life is underdetermined.

The ending is ambiguous because the plot and life itself are ambiguous. You can't know if it was a dream or not, eventually you have to take a "leap of faith," as the characters in the film say. That's why Nolan did not include a single transition scene (a scene where a character is moving from one place to another solely to inform the viewer of his movements) in the entire film. Just like in a dream, you never know just how you got where you are. I don't think Nolan did this to imply it was all just a dream, but to keep it ambiguous, to make sure that the viewer understands that if you want to feel for the characters in the film (or any film or life in general), you have to make the "leap of faith."

[JasonEvans]

According to IMDB, Inception is the 3rd highest rated movie of all time behind only Shawshank and Godfather I. Seems like a bit much.

Well, there is always a recency effect with this kind of thing. More current movies tend to get rated up a bit. After all, the people who have seen them tend to be the folks who were most excited to see them and went opening weekend. I think I noticed that Toy Story 3 was the #1 movie (or darn close to it) on IMDB a couple weeks ago. My bet is that Inception will settle in somewhere in the top 50 of all time. That may be a tad high, but the IMDB crowd tends to like sci-fi.

--Jason "I need to look-- but I think Dark Knight, Memento, and Prestige are all in the Top 250" Evans

[SuperTurkey]

Well, there is always a recency effect with this kind of thing. More current movies tend to get rated up a bit. After all, the people who have seen them tend to be the folks who were most excited to see them and went opening weekend. I think I noticed that Toy Story 3 was the #1 movie (or darn close to it) on IMDB a couple weeks ago. My bet is that Inception will settle in somewhere in the top 50 of all time. That may be a tad high, but the IMDB crowd tends to like sci-fi.

--Jason "I need to look-- but I think Dark Knight, Memento, and Prestige are all in the Top 250" Evans

Yep, recency is definitely a major factor. But the Dark Knight remains at 11 (which, I would also argue is criminally high), so Nolan definitely appears to be an IMDB darling.

[JasonEvans]

Nolan films and where they rank on IMDB

Inception - #3
Dark Knight - #12
Memento - #29
The Prestige - #73
Batman Begins - #108
Insomnia - outside the top 250

Are all of these high? Yup. So what. The IMDB crowd loves Nolan and there is probably some "I loved his other films so I am gonna rate this one high" effect going on with some of these (I am looking at you, The Prestige).

Of course Inception is not the 3rd best movie of all time. Dark Knight is not the 12th best film ever made. But I've got no problem with this. They were extremely enjoyable and daring. They did bold things that excited audiences and they were easy to like and appreciate. Is it such a crime that the voters of IMDB rates them that high?

--Jason "I wonder if some of the anti-blockbuster backlash will hurt Inception at the Oscars the way it did Dark Knight and Avatar the past couple years" Evans

[DevilHorns]

Nolan films and where they rank on IMDB

Inception - #3
Dark Knight - #12
Memento - #29
The Prestige - #73
Batman Begins - #108
Insomnia - outside the top 250

Are all of these high? Yup. So what. The IMDB crowd loves Nolan and there is probably some "I loved his other films so I am gonna rate this one high" effect going on with some of these (I am looking at you, The Prestige).

Of course Inception is not the 3rd best movie of all time. Dark Knight is not the 12th best film ever made. But I've got no problem with this. They were extremely enjoyable and daring. They did bold things that excited audiences and they were easy to like and appreciate. Is it such a crime that the voters of IMDB rates them that high?

--Jason "I wonder if some of the anti-blockbuster backlash will hurt Inception at the Oscars the way it did Dark Knight and Avatar the past couple years" Evans

I'm surprised Insomnia gets so little love. I really liked that film.

[WannabeDukie]

I watched the movie over a week ago now and have one question that I have not seen anyone ask on here. If my memory serves me correct. Cob talked on the phone to his kids while he was in reality. Did he not talk to a women, that I assumed was Cob's mom, prior to his children getting onto the phone? IF this event happened in reality, would she not have been present at the end? Just another small tid bit I cant seem to piece together. Great movie.

[brevity]

Perhaps we're spelling Dom's last name incorrectly, and it should be "cob" as in "cob spider" weaving a story for us to follow.

The flashback/memory of Leo's character in his kitchen with his lawyer (?) -- when he agrees to flee the country -- shows a plane ticket in the name of Cobb, Dominick. So it's Cobb, as in Cobb salad, combining healthy and unhealthy elements for us to sift through.

I watched the movie over a week ago now and have one question that I have not seen anyone ask on here. If my memory serves me correct. Cob talked on the phone to his kids while he was in reality. Did he not talk to a women, that I assumed was Cob's mom, prior to his children getting onto the phone? IF this event happened in reality, would she not have been present at the end? Just another small tid bit I cant seem to piece together. Great movie.

The kids were with their grandmother, presumably Michael Caine's wife and Marion Cotillard's mother. I think we hear her in the background while Cobb talks directly with his children. Also, the daughter sounds like she'd be older than the girl in Cobb's repeated memories.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I haven't seen the movie, but on the CBS Morning Show they had an 11 year old do reviews this morning. It cracked me up when he referred to the "Ellen Page character"! She's the dippy girl in the Cisco commercials.