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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavabe View Post
    You could do us all a favor, and start rooting for the Holes!
    If it will work, maybe I can be hypnotized .

    And to BlueDevilJay: Crouch has very good taste! I had to google Abby Clancy to find out who she is, and she is well worth googling!! Alas, I read the Gerrard jersey offer too late. DVR'd the match. Arsenal thoroughly outplayed Liverpool.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Yadkinville NC
    Yeah words can't quite describe how gutted I am that we aren't heading to the Kop with a 2-1 or even 3-1 lead. How much more dominant can we be without scoring?? Normally Arsenal are accused of trying to dribble the ball into the net, but that wasn't the case today, it was more unlucky than anything. And on Bendtner's save, for some reason the commentator said he was offside, but there was a defender ON THE GOAL LINE, but they still flagged for offsides anyways...Ive been in the sport for nearly 30 years, but am I missing something on the offside rule? There was a defender behind him.

    Regardless, he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. RVP should have killed the match off after supersub Walcott sent him through with one of his trademark speed dashes to the touchline, then cut it back for RVP in front of net...and he totally bottled the chance.

    Oh well, I know Pool fans will take it, but I think Arsenal are still in good shape despite failing to kill the tie off at home. We did the same with Milan earlier, dominated them at home, went to San Siro needing to do the same thing, and did it in style. The Kop dind't keep many of our shots out last season in a FA and Carling sweep within 3 days, and I think we are going through with either a 1-0 or 2-1 scoreline in 6 days. Liverpool never even LOOKED like scoring yesterday and their lone goal was the result of a lucky bounce (similar to Fabregas' goal at the Reebok on Saturday). For all the grief Gallas gets, he did a number on Torres yesterday.

    Up the Arsenal, Come on YOU GOONERS!!!!

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Yadkinville NC
    Quote Originally Posted by killerleft View Post
    If it will work, maybe I can be hypnotized .

    And to BlueDevilJay: Crouch has very good taste! I had to google Abby Clancy to find out who she is, and she is well worth googling!! Alas, I read the Gerrard jersey offer too late. DVR'd the match. Arsenal thoroughly outplayed Liverpool.
    Dude...Abby has just become the new model for the British equivilent of AXE body spray...I dont see how she is attracted to Crouch though. A few others you should look up, Ashley Cole's wife Cheryl (Cole or Tweedy), whom he just got caught cheating on, what a MORON. Keeley Hazell is another nice British number.

    I used to be in love with Victoria Beckham before she decided to go all anorexic and looks like a toothpick.

    Sorry, you can't discuss world football without discussing the WAGs from England

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Partly Orlando, FL partly heard Sandpoint, ID
    Offsides rule is two defensive players have to be between the offensive player and the goal line(actually now at the same distance as or between). It makes no differentiation between the keeper and anyone else. Typically that means one defender must be behind the offensive player, because the keeper will be as well. On the play in question, the keeper was out of the net, and ahead of Bendtner, so there was only 1 defender between him and the goal line.

    To add further confusion, there was actually a defender out of bounds behind the goal line, having followed whoever it was that made the cross(if you look at a replay, you'll see the two of them tumble off to the left of the goal).

    I'll be surprised if Arsenal advances. Yeah, they were the completely superior team on Tuesday, but Liverpool at home is a different club, and Benitez is about as good as they get at making appropriate adjustments between legs to move his squad on. Add in Van Persie not being 100% and I expect things to go to the 'pool.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Yadkinville NC
    That was why they called the offsides then, because that defender had carried across the goal line and was technically out of bounds at the time the ball reached Bendtner. And yes the keeper counts as a defender in the "two defender" scenario, as when playing forward, I always can beat the offside trap by staying with the last defender and breaking as soon as the ball is hit. I was wondering yesterday if that defender who was in the goal was considered to be out of bounds since he fell across the goal line as the ball was coming in. I did see that defender there which is why I was confused about the offside call, as he was "behind" Nick in terms of position on the field. Either way, just bad luck for Nick on that one.

    I agree too that Liverpool is a different beast at home, but our team last year was not all that different from this years squad (I'd even suggest we are BETTER this year) and we took both there, against full Liverpool squads, and I think they can do it again. I really hope so, as this is the only trophy we are left playing for now. Had we lost those two last season, I wouldn't have the confidence heading into the 2nd leg that I do, and I figure your anti-Arsenal bias might play a slight role in your prediction

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lexington, KY

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Deslok View Post
    Offsides rule is two defensive players have to be between the offensive player and the goal line(actually now at the same distance as or between). It makes no differentiation between the keeper and anyone else. Typically that means one defender must be behind the offensive player, because the keeper will be as well. On the play in question, the keeper was out of the net, and ahead of Bendtner, so there was only 1 defender between him and the goal line.

    To add further confusion, there was actually a defender out of bounds behind the goal line, having followed whoever it was that made the cross(if you look at a replay, you'll see the two of them tumble off to the left of the goal).

    I'll be surprised if Arsenal advances. Yeah, they were the completely superior team on Tuesday, but Liverpool at home is a different club, and Benitez is about as good as they get at making appropriate adjustments between legs to move his squad on. Add in Van Persie not being 100% and I expect things to go to the 'pool.
    I have to agree with Des on this one. Rafa manages CL games differently from his Premiership ones. Yesterday's object was to pack it in for a tie, plain and simple. His rotation of stars is designed for just such a tourney. And remember ... Torres in the Kop is a lot different (if we knew why, we'd be managing the team).

    I saw that tumble as well ... rather bizarre. And Des's observation was spot on. You need two ...it need not be the keeper.

    The strategy is SO different when you play away. It's my one biggest issue with CL vs. EPL. It also probably explains why Liverpool haven't won the home awards during Rafa's tenure.

    It will be interesting at the Kop.
    Cheers,
    Lavabe

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Yadkinville NC
    Yeah it def will be. Here's to at least a good match there, win or lose.

    And here is a link for the Abby Clancy lovers...I mean DANG!!!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1773

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Yadkinville NC
    As well, THIS article confirms to me beyond any doubt as to why a penalty wasn't called on Kuyt when he took Hleb down in the box during the first half. Supporter of either side or a neutral, there is no way you can say the tackle on Hleb wasn't a penalty. And now this article is released regarding Kuyt and the referee...figures.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...e_id=1779&ct=5

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Partly Orlando, FL partly heard Sandpoint, ID
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevilJay View Post
    As well, THIS article confirms to me beyond any doubt as to why a penalty wasn't called on Kuyt when he took Hleb down in the box during the first half. Supporter of either side or a neutral, there is no way you can say the tackle on Hleb wasn't a penalty. And now this article is released regarding Kuyt and the referee...figures.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...e_id=1779&ct=5
    Actually, I thought he didn't call a penalty because Hleb flopped it. If he'd at least tried to fight through it and gone down the ref might have called it. But he tried to make it look worse than it was and just went straight down. The ref looking right at the play could see Hleb play it up, and probably felt he couldn't call a penalty when he wasn't absolutely certain the fall was the result of a tug rather than a dive. For just that reason I was kind of glad he didn't call it(note, I'm not actually disputing that it could have legitimately been called a penalty - though I don't think it was the 100% obvious call as you claim - but anything that penalizes flopping isn't a bad thing)

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Yadkinville NC
    I agree with you about the penalizing diving. I just didn't see this one as a flop from Hleb, he certainly doesn't have the reputation for diving, like Eboue does, can't stand that kid. If the ref saw it as a dive, I'd agree with not calling it, or maybe even handing Hleb a yellow for diving, but a call should have been made one way or another, there was clearly enough contact to warrant it.

    That being said, that call was not the reason we didn't beat them yesterday, we failed to take advantage of our numerous other chances, so I'm in no way trying to suggest the ref cost us the W, just saying we should have had a penalty there, IMO.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Observation and Question about Diving

    About diving: lots of time I get it, that is, that that is what happened. In the penalty box, it is pernicious. Perhaps changing the hard-fast penalty kick for a foul would clean things up.

    But, here's what I don't know, having never played the game. A number of times, the guy with the ball has a defender try to tackle it while the guy with the ball is in the process of changing direction. Seems to me he faces the prospect of getting hurt or diving over the attempted tackle. If he dives and avoids the unavoidable contact and thereby gives up the ball, isn't it "right" to call the tackle a foul even though the tackler did not take the guy's legs because the guy dove?

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Yadkinville NC
    Well, therein is where Deslok's term is more appropriate, in flopping. When I say the word dive, I mean a player going to ground in an attempt to draw a foul on the opponent, when the challenge did not cause him to go to ground, in other words, falling down as a way of play acting. Now for a player to actually have to dive, as in jump forward to hurdle an opposing player that is attempting and succeeds in stealing the ball, no, that is not in the rules a foul, as no contact was made, and the defender succeeded in playing the ball.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevilJay View Post
    Well, therein is where Deslok's term is more appropriate, in flopping. When I say the word dive, I mean a player going to ground in an attempt to draw a foul on the opponent, when the challenge did not cause him to go to ground, in other words, falling down as a way of play acting. Now for a player to actually have to dive, as in jump forward to hurdle an opposing player that is attempting and succeeds in stealing the ball, no, that is not in the rules a foul, as no contact was made, and the defender succeeded in playing the ball.
    Let me refine it. You see guys slide tackle when and the guy with the ball has started a cut, and he goes to ground, literally in a dive, perhaps after making contact with the sliding foot and perhaps not. The ref whistles it a foul. It does not appear that the foot caused the dive or fall, rather that that was the diver's choice. It seems a righteous play, but I do not know because I never played. Anyway, the call is frequently made even though there was no "deliberate" dangerous play and no actual trip. Is that a "good" call or an example of diving that draws a call that shouldn't have been made?

    It seems that that call is included in the controversy over dives that are designed to draw a call when a guy is going to lose the ball righteously. I guess I want to know whether a defensive (against injury) dive that draws a foul call against the defender is considered "good" soccer and good refereeing.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lexington, KY

    Red face Liverpool 1, Arsenal 1

    Well, today's tussle in the EPL was loaded with substitutes. Crouch started (Torres came in at the 80th minute mark), and Gerrard came in at the 66th minute mark. Big starters were subs today. Crouch scored just before the half. Bendtner scored shortly after the start of the 2nd half.

    The next game w/these two is at Anfield for CL. I expect Torres and Gerrard will start, now that they are fresh.

    Today's tie probably hurt Gunners in their attempt to reach the top of the table.

    Cheers,
    Lavabe

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Partly Orlando, FL partly heard Sandpoint, ID
    Pretty ugly game to send Liverpool through. Both sides seemed to be off their games with more than a few unforced errors. The penalty looked worse than it was, without replay it looked rather clear but 2nd viewing makes it a tough call to be one to send Arsenal home with.

    And Chelsea picks up a very late goal of their own to edge past Fenerbache.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lexington, KY

    Thumbs up Rafa and the CL

    Quote Originally Posted by Deslok View Post
    Pretty ugly game to send Liverpool through. Both sides seemed to be off their games with more than a few unforced errors. The penalty looked worse than it was, without replay it looked rather clear but 2nd viewing makes it a tough call to be one to send Arsenal home with.

    And Chelsea picks up a very late goal of their own to edge past Fenerbache.
    Here's the soccernet description:http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?id=238333&cc=5901

    Sometimes Rafa outsmarts himself with the rotation. I wonder what would have happened had he not pulled Crouchy. Sounds like the Crouch substitution led to a defensive lapse, that had Gunners draw even VERY late.

    Sounds like a "soft" penalty in the box from the description, but Arsenal should have been back on D faster. No excuse that some Gunners were "celebrating" which ultimately led to Liverpool's break.

    Glad to see that Crouch/Torres played well. On to Chelsea!
    Cheers,
    Lavabe

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Naptown, IN
    I'm not a soccer fan now, but I will be by 2010. I will be in Capetown, South Africa, June 17 - 24th, 2010.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Deslok View Post

    And Chelsea picks up a very late goal of their own to edge past Fenerbache.
    Chelsea would have advanced anyway with a 1-0 win. Assuming a 1-0 finish at the Bridge, aggregate=2-2, Chelsea had 1 away goal while Fenerbache had none.

    GO BLUES!!

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Deslok View Post
    Pretty ugly game to send Liverpool through. Both sides seemed to be off their games with more than a few unforced errors. The penalty looked worse than it was, without replay it looked rather clear but 2nd viewing makes it a tough call to be one to send Arsenal home with.

    And Chelsea picks up a very late goal of their own to edge past Fenerbache.
    I thought today's CL Liverpool-Arsenal match was one of the most exciting I have ever seen. Yes, both seems looked sloppy with the ball at times, but that does not take away from the excitement and spirit of the match. All the goals were well taken and the penalty was the right call. All and all, a great match and congratulations to Liverpool for a gutty win.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavabe View Post
    Here's the soccernet description:http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?id=238333&cc=5901

    Sounds like a "soft" penalty in the box from the description, but Arsenal should have been back on D faster. No excuse that some Gunners were "celebrating" which ultimately led to Liverpool's break.

    Lavabe
    In basketball it would be called a ticky-tack foul. It's the Gunners fault though...just poor defense. Arsenal's season pretty much paralleled Duke bball. We here's to next year. With England out of Euro 2008, it's going to be a long spell without football for me.

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