Duke will be fine with Zoubek and Thomas

[The Gordog]

This is blatantly unfair. McClure IS a winner, even at the college level. McClure is the "glue guy" who contributes all the intangibles; he gets the extra offensive rebound when we really need it, the extra loose ball that changes the outcome of the game, the extra blocked shot when it's tight, etc. He plays like a winner, even in college.

In the midseason when we won five ACC games in a row, McClure was an important factor in each and every one of them. Things changed after he injured his knee in the Boston College game. If his knee heels up properly and he gets back to 100%, you will again see McClure do every little thing the team needs him to do.

I agree with everything you said, I just don't think it automatically means we will win because he's on the team.

[CMS2478]

I agree with everything you said, I just don't think it automatically means we will win because he's on the team.

I won all my t-ball games when I was 5, but that didn't guarantee success when I moved up to fast-pitch...we were awful.

[ScreechTDX]

Zoubek is extremely clumsy around the basket and has horrible hands. When he gets the ball in the post he travels/offensive fouls 2/3 of the time.

He needs playing time to get better at those things, nothing in the offseason is going to make that miraculously better. Lance in the player with the real potential and i expect him to be 10X better next year. He's already got the mid range game, he just doesnt take the shots. In addition, once he gets stronger he will get more confidence at going for the baset and cleaning up everyone's garbage.

We will have a good season without PP. But, we will lack a nasty post scoring threat for at least 2 more years.

[RelativeWays]

I am very optimistic and confident with the 07-08 line-up we have, Patterson or no Patterson. Those who are hoping to dance on the casket of Duke basketball should have gotten their jollies last season, they will be very disappointed next season.

[johnb]

Zoubek is extremely clumsy around the basket and has horrible hands. When he gets the ball in the post he travels/offensive fouls 2/3 of the time.

He needs playing time to get better at those things, nothing in the offseason is going to make that miraculously better. Lance in the player with the real potential and i expect him to be 10X better next year. He's already got the mid range game, he just doesnt take the shots. In addition, once he gets stronger he will get more confidence at going for the baset and cleaning up everyone's garbage.

We will have a good season without PP. But, we will lack a nasty post scoring threat for at least 2 more years.

Zoubs had trouble getting his footwork organized while posting up, but I don't see him as clumsy, and I thought his "hands" were fine. In fact, he struck me as unusually smooth and quick for a 7 footer.

Both of those guys have the potential for super sophomore years.

If the coaching staff wants PP, then I'd be happy to see him show up in September. But there are lots of ways that it could work out just as well or better if he decides to go to Florida or Kentucky.

[jawk24]

If you honestly believe your comment about being fine with Zoubek and Thomas, then you need to be committed.

[thebur]

I agree 100%, it would be great to have Patterson but without him we have decent size, and we have a coaching staff that has made some pretty nasty runs with teams that utilized a similar amount of size to what we would have without Patterson. The 1999 Final Four team with Taymon and Burgess averaging a combined 25 minutes a game was similar in size, but made a great run. We will see how Thomas develops, I think like many others he will make some significant strides this year, and Zoubek will become reliable. If not a double digit scorer yet he will be at least a solid contributor.

All that being said, Patrick would take us to the next level and I really hope that this Alex Legion quote is just him having some fun and throwing the trail off... stranger things have happened in recruiting. C'mon down to Durham Mr. Patterson, let's win some trophies.

[Patrick Yates]

Given his size and athleticism, Duke needs may be hurting us. DeCourcy's article on the front page were chilling to me. He believes that PP, who is apparanly more athletic than I believed, may want to work on his J and transition to SF while in College. At Duke, that is hightly unlikely.

At best he could play a Shane type PF at Duke, but given the way recruiting has gone recently, He could be chained to post for 3-4 years. Given PP's already maxed out frame, he cannot get big enough to excell the way that Shel, or Booz did, over time. For him to have a career, he needs to be able to move to the wing, and Duke has developed a habit of making kids play up a position size wize, rather than down, which PP needs/wants.

We need him in the post, almost exclusively. If he does not want to play exclusively in the post, then we are indeed a bad fit for him. On a going forward basis we are very crowded at the SF, WF, and WG, which are largely interchangeable under K. Any player capable of playing more in the post will spend the majority of his minutes there.

Patrick Yates

(say what you will about PP's motives, but stringing Duke along and then ditching us at the end will make him a folk hero in some circles)

[mepanchin]

If you honestly believe your comment about being fine with Zoubek and Thomas, then you need to be committed.

I mean, obviously it depends what you mean by fine. With or without Patterson, I didn't think we would be competing for a national championship next season, but I thought with a sophomore Patterson and a mostly unchanged lineup from what we'll have next year, plus the prospect of a freshman Monroe, we had a very good chance in 2008-2009.

Now that is a far more unclear prospect because we will be depending on guys to improve who fit a different archetype than Patterson does. Occasionally I read posts on various forums of people thinking that without Patterson, we'll be middle of the pack ACC and a bubble team. Surely you can't think that is the case? Thomas and Zoubek are maligned precisely because we have had guys like Shelden Williams, Carlos Boozer, Elton Brand, and yes, even Josh McRoberts who came in big, strong and fairly well prepared to play at this level. Zoubek and Thomas resemble players we had before the renaissance in 1998 who need a bit more seasoning, but turn out to be excellent players who are efficient at both ends of the floor, experienced and full of energy and spirit.

My gut feeling is, without Patterson, our offense is much better this coming year than it was last year, but our defense may suffer a little (that really will depend on how many minutes Zoubek can play). After some seasoning, Zoubek/Thomas will show a noticeable amount of improvement. Then, in 09 (hopefully) we land Monroe who can then learn from experienced and skilled forwards to improve a great deal over his freshman year. I still think next year we are #2 or possibly #3 in the ACC, and a potential 2-4 seed with a good chance at an exciting tournament run if we are playing well and get a good draw. I also still think with some luck (no injuries, etc) and some recruiting luck, we can compete for a national championship in 09.

[ACCBBallFan]

Zoubs had trouble getting his footwork organized while posting up, but I don't see him as clumsy, and I thought his "hands" were fine. In fact, he struck me as unusually smooth and quick for a 7 footer.
.

You are both right. Zoubek's hands with respect to catching the ball were fine. With respect to protecting the ball and holding it high rather than bringing it down where Wojo could reach it and knock it loose, Zoubek needs to lost that habit.

[MrBisonDevil]

Match Duke talent vs. every other ACC team. Match Duke talent against every other D1 NCAA team. We match up nicely.

Duke is blessed to have 6 kids coming back who started more than 10 games and averaged more than 15mpg each. We carry over experience into '07-'08. How many games did Duke lose by a few points? Experience will erase similar loses in '07-'08. Also, Duke lost 1 player and gained (at least) 3 All-Americans. I'll take that sway any year. IMO, Duke has improved.

I think we will improve by 5-9 games (including ACC & NCAA tourneys). I don't have any worries about '07-'08 (not one). Duke will be fine and continue to be hated because of our success...

[ron mckernan]

First and foremost, this thread needs bumped up above all the PP threads. Zoubek & Thomas are both gonna be wayyyy better with a year of strength training, coaching, practice, and game experience.

But, I was thinking...if you have to play smallball, next year might be the year to do it. Hansbrough's the notable exception, but next year will be missing a lot of good bigs and heavy on guards. No Oden, Durant, Brandan Wright, Julian Wright, Aaron Grey, Noah, Horford, Randolph Morris, BC's suspended shot-blocker. Maybe no Thaddeus Young, Hibbert, USC & Wash. big guys. Kevin Love's good, but a freshman. I'm sure there will be some new stars at PF & C, but no one of the Oden/Durant/Wright/Hibbert variety.

So, whereas last year, sneaking into the Final 4 was impossible without going through at least one stud big man, next year could look very different.

[ScreechTDX]

Up for Zoubek and Lance becoming the "Danger Duo" in '07-'08.

[freedevil]

I would like to see K let Lance display his offensive skills.

I hate the people on IC (I'm vomitting even invoking their input), but every now and then they have a point - many a big man has been relegated to setting picks, rebounding, and taking charges while at Duke. Let Lance put the ball on the floor, and let's not rely on two people to get all our points.

Go DUKE!

[ACCBBallFan]

First and foremost, this thread needs bumped up above all the PP threads. Zoubek & Thomas are both gonna be wayyyy better with a year of strength training, coaching, practice, and game experience.

But, I was thinking...if you have to play smallball, next year might be the year to do it. Hansbrough's the notable exception, but next year will be missing a lot of good bigs and heavy on guards. No Oden, Durant, Brandan Wright, Julian Wright, Aaron Grey, Noah, Horford, Randolph Morris, BC's suspended shot-blocker. Maybe no Thaddeus Young, Hibbert, USC & Wash. big guys. Kevin Love's good, but a freshman. I'm sure there will be some new stars at PF & C, but no one of the Oden/Durant/Wright/Hibbert variety.

So, whereas last year, sneaking into the Final 4 was impossible without going through at least one stud big man, next year could look very different.

I agree with you. As far as the weakened ACC despite what some UNC fans are saying on their boards Duke will finish above 500.

It is not even a given that UNC will again sweep Duke who improved more than any ACC team in net adds minus nets subtractions with Singler Smith and King minus Josh. UNC has Graves minus Wright minus Terry minus Wes Miller.

But even if you concede 2 losses to UNC where would the other 6 losses come from?

Playing MD twice (lost Strawberry Ibekwe, Mike Jones, their 7 footer and Parrish Brown);

Playing NCS twice could be close (lost Atsur and gained a forward)

Playing UVA twice (lost Singletary JR Reynolds and Cain, not sure what they gained) and won’t have the favorable ACC unbalanced schedule they had last year

Playing Miami twice which negates the not conceded UNC losses

Playing BC at Home (lost Dudley and Marshall and Sean Williams and Duke beat them twice last year);
Playing Clemson at Home (lost Mays and one of their guards and finished behind Duke last year)
Playing GT at Home could be close (lost Crittenden, Young and Mario West, get Lewis clinch back and a forward)
Play @ FSU (Lost Thornton, former JUCO Jerel Allen and possibly Mims not sure what they gained)
Play @ VA Tech (lost Coleman Collins, Dowdell, Gordon, Sailes, Krabbendan and a recruit reneged)
Play @ WF (lost Visser and Drum gained a forward)

So hard to imagine Duke not finishing in top third of ACC even with small ball.

As you say, lots of non-ACC top teams also lost more than they gained, but Duke's NCAA prospects likely involved not getting matched up against a team with dominant bigs and ability to live or die by the 3, but by then Zoubek, Lance, the three recruits et all will have gotten PT by default and presumably will be more ready than last year.

[Boston Dukie]

To be clear, even in the absolute best case, Zoubekis no Burgess.

Burgess had his problems, but he was the #1 or #2 rated highschool player, almost went directly to the NBA, and was much more athletic and polished than Zoubek. His confidence took a hit when he met Brand and Battier, but he was worlds better than Zoubek.

I don't think it was a mistake by the Duke staff to miss out on Patterson (if he is more comfortable somewhere else, he should go somewhere else, and I hope he does well), but it was a huge mistake by the staff to be left with Zoubek as our only legitimate #5. They had to know McRoberts was leaving (or highly likely) and I don't understand why they didn't have other recruits in the pipeline. Especially after watching Zoubek play this past year, he needs a ton of work, and in a best case is a decent player in a couple of years.

He is very slow and clumbsy, and his post moves are robotic. He is 7-1 and didn't dunk the ball the entire year! I bet that is the first time in the last 20 years, that an ACC player 7 ft or taller who played as many minutesd as Zoubek did went the whole year without dunking the ball.

This team really lacks athleticism as well - with Paulus, Scheyer, McClure, King, and Zoubek all sub-par athletes.

I think Lance Thomas will be very good, and will surprise people, but he is just too small to be our biggest player on the court.

I can only hope this means we get 2 real inside players (Monroe and some one else) next year.

This will be small ball like never before!

[10B13]

I seem to recall that he had at least one and maybe two dunks last year, but couldn't identify which games they might have been.

In any event, he needs serious agility drills more than anything else, not just with his feet, but his hands.

[SilkyJ]

I don't think it was a mistake by the Duke staff to miss out on Patterson (if he is more comfortable somewhere else, he should go somewhere else, and I hope he does well), but it was a huge mistake by the staff to be left with Zoubek as our only legitimate #5. They had to know McRoberts was leaving (or highly likely) and I don't understand why they didn't have other recruits in the pipeline. Especially after watching Zoubek play this past year, he needs a ton of work, and in a best case is a decent player in a couple of years.

I said something similar on another thread, and forgot to mention that we DID have boateng AND jamal. Before they transfered. Boateng would have been a legit 5 and jamal, while a more natural fit to guard the 4, could have spelled at the 5 with his tenacity and bulk.

[johnb]

It would be nice to have a set of 6'11" bruisers around whom we could assemble all of our wings.

Unfortunately, there aren't many legitimate 5's in college who would earn 20 minutes/game at Duke. If there were, they would have ben placed on our radar screen, and we likely would have recruited them. When we do recruit a 7 footer who is fairly athletic, they don't get PT since they aren't as effective as our shorter guys. I'm not sure that Zoubek will get more than 10 minutes a game next year, and he won't if he doesn't work on his footwork, but--with a few years of work--I bet he gets 10 minutes per game in the NBA, and I think he has more potential than either Boateng and Boykin.

[Classof06]

I seem to recall that he had at least one and maybe two dunks last year, but couldn't identify which games they might have been.

In any event, he needs serious agility drills more than anything else, not just with his feet, but his hands.

For being 7 foot, I think Zoubek is extremely agile, on the defensive side of the floor at least. I think it's just a matter of him getting used to the speed of the game. In HS, he could probably post up, get the ball, and then think about what he was going to do for a second. In college, that second turns to less than half a second, and you could tell Zoubek struggled with the physicality and the speed. But if we're talking natural God-given agility, then Zoubek's fine for his size. Now we need to see him add strength.