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  1. #1

    Duke will be fine with Zoubek and Thomas

    Frankly I'm sick of all the PP talk and would just like to move on.

    Truth is Duke is loaded with talent next year (8 HS All Americans) and the addition of PP would only mean the eventual transfer of players like Lance Thomas, Brian Zoubek or Taylor King.

    Zoubek and Thomas should split time at the 5 spot until one of them emerges while Singler will start at the 4 while sharing time with King and David McClure.

    That's a pretty solid front court IMO.

    If anyone doubts Singler's ability to play the 4 just go to Youtube and watch part 1 of the Jordan Classic. He scores in the post against Kosta Koufous (7'1) with a great move from the center of the paint and then a bit later has a great block on a big man on the defensive end.

    Zoubek in his brief playing time last year altered plenty of shots and for those of you who remember gave Hansbrough a fit with his size and length. What Zoubek needs is playing time and he'll get that with PP in Florida.

    And what ever happened to love for Lance Thomas? This time last year Thomas was the center of our attention and was talked about in a very similar way to PP. People raved about Thomas' team first attitude, his non-stop motor, passion and athleticism....sound familiar? Scout.com had Thomas at 18 overall last year and has PP at 15 this year....are they really that different?

    I know some of you consider PP superior and can't miss but remember PP has yet to play a college game yet everyone seems to think he's the second coming of Carlos Boozer...for pete's sake PP isn't even ranked in the top 10 and I'm just sick of all the hype he's getting. There's also no such thing as can't miss prospects in college call these days.

    I'm more than willing to wait on Zoubek and Thomas to develop rather than try to replace then before they even get a chance.

    I know Zoubek and Thomas are in the gym like crazy right now and will both be bigger and stronger come the fall and I for one am quite excited by that.....more excited by that than if PP did decide to come to Duke.

  2. #2
    i agree......but i hope he still signs with duke

  3. #3

    Well Said

    I couldn't agree more.
    PP is way overhyped and will be expected to produce a double double everytime out. How unfair is that?
    Let Thomas and Zoubek mature within the DUKE system.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    I second those thoughts about the current Duke players. Yes, I would like to see Patterson sign with Duke but I won't be crushed. In fact, I expect him not to sign with Duke. Duke will be fine without him. Duke will a bit better with him. I hope he goes with his heart and good luck to him unless he faces Duke at some point in his career.

  5. #5
    I agree as well, however for LT to play a 5 he must put on some weight/muscle Im sure the Staff has had him in the weight room though!

  6. #6
    I think what excites people is that mix of raw power and agility. Zoubek and Thomas, much as I love them, have basically one or the other; Zoubek power, Thomas agility. PP has both; he is built like a MAN, if you know what I mean, and can move just about as fast as any big man I've seen recently. These are traits many of us have seen recently in some of our best players; Brand, Boozer, and, to an extent, Williams (not quite as fast, but still surprisingly quick.) Having PP at the center would allow Thomas more time to develop where he deserves to develop, at the 4, and even allows Kyle to spend time at both the four and the three. I think PP would be a huge positive.

  7. #7
    Thomas and Patterson are very different players. Thomas is a college 3/4 who can be a good position defender, get lots of rebounds, get to the line, generally play within the system offensively and defensively, but he isn't a star on either side.

    Patterson is likely the kind of Shelden Williams type player we will need with the departure of McRoberts. He's longer and bigger than Thomas and is a natural college center. You would likely see Thomas and Patterson playing side-by-side rather than one stepping over the other.

    Zoubek is a work in progress. His (tempo-free) stats this year were actually somewhat encouraging, especially on the defensive side. He was turnover and foul prone (as was Thomas), but that is something that will improve. Keep in mind Zoubek only played 17% of minutes this year or so. Even with Patterson, you are looking at Zoubek playing a solid 30-40% of minutes while Patterson will likely play 55-65% (looking at previous freshman numbers for big men at Duke).

    I'm certainly not anointing Patterson as a savior (because our program is fine), but it's not exactly controversial to claim that Patterson is an element we are missing. We will have guys like Nelson, Smith and Henderson as athletic slashers and solid defenders. Scheyer, Paulus and King are instant offense jump shooting specialists. Singler is the versatile point forward who can shoot, handle or drive and isn't bad defensively either (a more perimeter oriented McRoberts). Thomas and McClure are 3/4 energy guys who will contribute to our rebounding and defense, and may develop more offensively before it's all over. Zoubek is a true center who is a real work in progress. Add in a long, athletic defensively skilled true college 5 (NBA PF) who will likely stay 3-4 years (Patterson) and you have a team with almost everything covered. We'd just need experience and some time playing together and you have there a balanced team offensively and defensively who can go big, go small or go balanced and attack from every angle (driving the lane and kicking, passing around the perimeter in a 4 guard scheme, play inside-out with a big man like Patterson getting 25% of possessions, etc).

    Also, I think we don't have much to worry about regarding transfers. Our 97-98 team had 9 guys playing over 30% of the minutes successfully, with another 2 over 10%. The only guy who had substantial playing time who transferred was Chris Burgess and we have to assume it was because his father had delusions of grandeur for his son (he was improving, and his playing time would have been substantial over the next 2 years). Michael Thompson played 4.44% of minutes in 03, and 0.74% in 04. Boateng played 3.46% and then transferred. Boykin played 4.84% and then immediately transferred at the start of this past year. These were guys who never played.

    I suppose you could look at Mike Chappell but I'm not sure if he transferred due to playing time concerns or what, because he played 28.8% and 36.0% in his two seasons at Duke and was improving.

    Anyway, I agree that we will be fine without him, but let's not give up at this point. If we get Patterson we can legitimately have a range of expectations that include a Final Four. Otherwise, we will see a lot of small ball and will be a less versatile and more volatile/risky team relying more on 3s than if we had a guy like Patterson.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Western North Carolina

    Nowhere near Boozer

    PP is at least an inch shorter, and 15 - 20 lbs lighter than Boozer. Personally, I have not seen anything that indicates his post moves are that developed.

    I agree with the above poster who thinks that PP would force a transfer. PP is more ready to compete immediately, even more prepared that BZ or LT who have a year of experience. But, PP has a low ceiling imho. He has made a living by out muscling people in HS. At 6-8 (ish, looks closer to 6-7) and 225-235, he aint out muscling many people in College. TH will destroy him. Not close.

    I am not certain that BZ and LT will be better than PP. But they could be better, maybe significantly so, in 2-3 years.

    I would love to get PP. He would help, no doubt. But, he is not a saviour of this, or any, program.

    This goes double for Lucas at the pg. I think many programs are dodging a bullet known as mediocrity with this kid. He is just good enough to deter an elite PG, but not good enough to truly dominate. Anchor.

    Patrick Yates

  9. #9

    Zoubek and Lance

    Quote Originally Posted by mepanchin View Post
    Anyway, I agree that we will be fine without him, but let's not give up at this point. If we get Patterson we can legitimately have a range of expectations that include a Final Four. Otherwise, we will see a lot of small ball and will be a less versatile and more volatile/risky team relying more on 3s than if we had a guy like Patterson.
    Fine may be too strong a word, perhaps adequate is more descriptive.

    I also doubt there would be much danger of Zoubek or Lance transferring if Patrick comes to Duke.

    If anything the three would make each other better practicing against one another every day. Zoubek would get used to playing against a true power player and Lance playing against a quick front line guy, and vice versa for Patrick playing every day with and against Lance.

    Similarly Patrick would get accustomed to practicing against the 7 footers he will face in the NBA, though they would be more skilled than Zoubek as he continues to improve.

    I am not sure what UK and UF offer Patrick in the way of guys as big as Zoubek or as quick as Lance. Though on the one hand that may help his short term goal of freshman PT, it could hinder his linger term goal of improving enough to be a bona fide NBA Power guy.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    I've thought this for some time. Let Thomas and Zoubek develop and wait for Monroe.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    I agree with VaDukie. I think the potential of Zoubek and L. Thomas outweigh the hype of PP. Overated?? I think so. Our team will be fine with the talent we've got -- and really can do without PP. I truly don't want to even think about transfers. Enough is enough. We already have the talent, passion and drive to challenge for our next National Championship. Go Devils!

  12. #12
    I think you can't deny that the Duke team would be better with PP. I also think Duke would be fine with Zou and LT.

    I hope we get him, but if we don't its no big deal.

  13. #13

    Be careful what you wish for

    Quote Originally Posted by dukemomLA View Post
    I agree with VaDukie. I think the potential of Zoubek and L. Thomas outweigh the hype of PP. Overated?? I think so. Our team will be fine with the talent we've got -- and really can do without PP. I truly don't want to even think about transfers. Enough is enough. We already have the talent, passion and drive to challenge for our next National Championship. Go Devils!

    I don't know if PP is overhyped, but I do know we need him! Josh leaves awfully big shoes to fill. We need as much frontcourt depth as possible. Although McDonald's AAs are nice to have on ones roster, it does not guarntee success. How many McDonalds AAs did VCU have? PP helps Duke return the elite level much sooner. The alternative may be another transition year as most ACC players will improve in the summer not just Duke's. Do the right thing PP and get ready for Maui in November!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wherever the wind blows and the leaves dance.

    Thomas and Zoubek

    I think some people are expecting too much improvement from Thomas and Zoubek for this coming year. I don't think that either of these guys will start on a consistent basis next season. But I also don't think that patterson will fit that role either, though he wuold be another piece like Thomas and Zoubek that could be used in certain situations. The ACC is a big adjustment from HS ball and I don't think that Patterson looked that dominant in the HS games I saw to lead one to believe that he would make an effortless transition (like Shelden Williams) in his first year in the ACC.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Goldsboro, NC
    I have already stated on this board before and I hold to it, that we would be a much better team next year with Patterson....duh, no brainer there. However, in the bigger scheme of things, if we don't get Patterson that means Z and Thomas will have to play major minutes and that is what they are lacking to develop into great players. They may struggle at first, but by the their junior years they should be great. Add Monroe (possibly) to an experienced Thomas and Z and we will be stacked in the post in two years.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by VaDukie View Post
    I've thought this for some time. Let Thomas and Zoubek develop and wait for Monroe.
    That sounds like a great plan to me, that is as long as we land Monroe. I've heard before that we were pretty confident we were gonna get a big time player (Wright) and then it fell through and we were left back at the drawing backboard!

  17. #17

    Injuries, Foul Trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ash View Post
    I think what excites people is that mix of raw power and agility. Zoubek and Thomas, much as I love them, have basically one or the other; Zoubek power, Thomas agility. PP has both; he is built like a MAN, if you know what I mean, and can move just about as fast as any big man I've seen recently. These are traits many of us have seen recently in some of our best players; Brand, Boozer, and, to an extent, Williams (not quite as fast, but still surprisingly quick.) Having PP at the center would allow Thomas more time to develop where he deserves to develop, at the 4, and even allows Kyle to spend time at both the four and the three. I think PP would be a huge positive.
    To be a championship level team, we need depth at the 4 and 5 positions. Florida made that point in the finals of the NCAA's this year by bringing in at least 4 power players to contest Oden.

    What Duke has is a light Singler, probably a bulked up Thomas and a stronger Zoubec. An injury or foul trouble to one player and we get into a weak position against teams with multiple bigs. Sure we have McClure and King, but can they really be effective inside against the bigs of other teams?

    What Patterson would give us is another strong and quick inside player who could share time with the others and give us a championship contending team. Frankly I don't know how time would be apportioned and no doubt some people would be disappointed but the team would be better.

  18. #18

    Zoubek, Lance and Patrick

    Quote Originally Posted by CMS2478 View Post
    I have already stated on this board before and I hold to it, that we would be a much better team next year with Patterson....duh, no brainer there. However, in the bigger scheme of things, if we don't get Patterson that means Z and Thomas will have to play major minutes and that is what they are lacking to develop into great players. They may struggle at first, but by the their junior years they should be great. Add Monroe (possibly) to an experienced Thomas and Z and we will be stacked in the post in two years.
    I completely agree.

  19. #19
    Getting Patterson would be huge. No offense to LT and Z, but I think it's plainly obvious that PPat is a level of talent a notch or two above those guys. He's one of the best rebounders and shotblockers in his class (better than LT here) with enough quickness to allow Duke to switch on screens and play Duke-type defense (better than Z here). With PPat on the roster, Duke could, with some luck, get to a Final Four in 08 or perhaps even win it all (with a lot of luck). Getting PPat effectively doubles Duke's window of opportunity to do major damage in the NCAA tournament from one to two years (after the 09 season, it's very questionable whether guys like Singler and Henderson will still be around, and Paulus graduates). To double your opportunity like that is huge.

  20. #20

    Thomas not a 5

    LT can be a good 4 but it is unwise to think that he could be a good 5. Z, on the other hand, could be a good 5 if he keeps developing, tho that might not be til his Jr. year, it's just such a long process for big men like him. He can do it tho. McClure needs to add a reliable jumper to his game so he can be more of a swing 3/4, cuz he just isn't tall or beefy enough to be a legit answer as a 4. I don't see how adding PP would be a bad thing although i do remember how much hype this board was generating last year for LT. LT had a nice year for a Fr. but was far from dominating anyone. In that light, adding PP would certainly be a bonus, but it's a bit early to annoint him with some special redemptive power.

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