Apple Sues HTC

[alteran]

Wake up and smell the vindictiveness, Google.

Looks like Apple / Steve Jobs has decided to start a patent war.

Ostensibly an action against HTC, this looks like a shot directly into the bow of Google. WindowsMobile and Android phones are cited, but the software patents complaints are all against the Android phones.

I find it hard to believe Apple's real play is to extort a percentage from HTC, I think their real goal is to scare the bejeezus out of Android manufacturers and get them to move on.

Apple might succeed, but sometimes these patent wars go spectacularly badly for the initiator.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Slight (?) thread hijack here.

My wife just got a business provided smart phone - our first venture in that direction. It's a Samsung Omnia, based on Windows Mobile 6.1 Professional. She has just started learning about it so we have no feedback yet, but that's not the point of this post. The 5 posted Verizon user ratings are horrible for the phone.

Two weeks ago I was in a Best Buy down in Ft. Lauderdale just before closing time. There happened to be a Palm rep there, and he showed me a little bit about the Palm Pre (I was looking for something to get my netbook online where I had no internet access - again not the point of this post, but the Palm Pre provides a 5-user wifi hot spot). He talked about aps. He said that within the next couple of months, there would be thousands (I think he actually said close to 100,000) aps released for the Palm Pre, which would make it a very attractive phone. Have any of you mavens heard this?

[DevilAlumna]

Slight (?) thread hijack here.

My wife just got a business provided smart phone - our first venture in that direction. It's a Samsung Omnia, based on Windows Mobile 6.1 Professional. She has just started learning about it so we have no feedback yet, but that's not the point of this post. The 5 posted Verizon user ratings are horrible for the phone.

Two weeks ago I was in a Best Buy down in Ft. Lauderdale just before closing time. There happened to be a Palm rep there, and he showed me a little bit about the Palm Pre (I was looking for something to get my netbook online where I had no internet access - again not the point of this post, but the Palm Pre provides a 5-user wifi hot spot). He talked about aps. He said that within the next couple of months, there would be thousands (I think he actually said close to 100,000) aps released for the Palm Pre, which would make it a very attractive phone. Have any of you mavens heard this?

The Omnia's an "eh" phone, now about a year too old. I suggest looking for a product called SBP Suite (or SPB?), which will allow for a lot more customization of the phone UI.

You can make that phone a wifi router too - there's a program called, appropriately enough, WMWiFiRouter. It's got a free 30-day trial.

Windows Mobile also now has an App marketplace. It's kind of silly to me, since I've been able to buy 3rd party software for windows mobile devices since 2003, but this is a more tightly integrated phone experience.

Therefore, I'm not surprised that Palm is getting in on the "Apps craze;" Nokia has an app store too.

[hc5duke]

This is ridiculous. HTC should sue them right back. They've been around much longer in the field, and Apple is probably infringing on many of their patents. Google should get involved as well and sic their lawyers on this.

He said that within the next couple of months, there would be thousands (I think he actually said close to 100,000) aps released for the Palm Pre, which would make it a very attractive phone. Have any of you mavens heard this?

Best Buy employees are typically incompetent and lying sacks of fetid materials. Palm Pre does have a nice development platform, but they have very few developers willing to spend the time on such a small market. It's ridiculous (damn I keep using that word) to suggest that a store that currently has ~1000 apps would grow larger than the more established, better distributed Android market (30,000). I think the guy is lying to you to "get you behind the wheels of this phone today", so to speak.

Windows Mobile also now has an App marketplace. It's kind of silly to me, since I've been able to buy 3rd party software for windows mobile devices since 2003, but this is a more tightly integrated phone experience.

I think the main difference is (at least on Palm, though I imagine it's similar on WinMo) that the small time developers can get in on the action. Before, you had to establish relationships with the carriers and/or platform providers just so you can get a foot in the door, and this was not possible for a small development team to do. Now, you pay ~$100 and you're in.

[A-Tex Devil]

Best Buy employees are typically incompetent and lying sacks of fetid materials. Palm Pre does have a nice development platform, but they have very few developers willing to spend the time on such a small market. It's ridiculous (damn I keep using that word) to suggest that a store that currently has ~1000 apps would grow larger than the more established, better distributed Android market (30,000). I think the guy is lying to you to "get you behind the wheels of this phone today", so to speak.

Further hijacking this thread, I can't agree more about the Best Buy employees.

My dad gave me a Blu Ray for xmas -- the Sony with the Wifi. Really good product. Well they told him it had streaming video (specifically NetFlix) like the other Sony DVD player which is otherwise a step down in quality. Wrong. I went to Best Buy near me, and they repeated the claim. I asked them to show me, and they couldn't. They assumed it did since the lower quality player did. I kept that Blu Ray, though, because it actually is quite excellent, no streaming video aside.

Later I decided to get the Sony Bravia TV. NetFlix's website said that the XBR streamed NetFlix. Best Buy had a sale on which beat the Sony Store by a significant margin. I went to multiple Best Buys and asked if the TV streamed NetFlix, and they all said no. I asked NetFlix and the Sony Store and they both said it would stream no problem, just download the firmware when I install the TV. All of the Best Buy guys insisted NetFlix and Sony (!!) were wrong, but I gambled and bough the TV at a cheaper price at Best Buy anyway. I took it home, downloaded the firmware, and voila, I have a nice little setup and am addicted to streaming NetFlix.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Further hijacking this thread, I can't agree more about the Best Buy employees.

My dad gave me a Blu Ray for xmas -- the Sony with the Wifi. Really good product. Well they told him it had streaming video (specifically NetFlix) like the other Sony DVD player which is otherwise a step down in quality. Wrong. I went to Best Buy near me, and they repeated the claim. I asked them to show me, and they couldn't. They assumed it did since the lower quality player did. I kept that Blu Ray, though, because it actually is quite excellent, no streaming video aside.

Later I decided to get the Sony Bravia TV. NetFlix's website said that the XBR streamed NetFlix. Best Buy had a sale on which beat the Sony Store by a significant margin. I went to multiple Best Buys and asked if the TV streamed NetFlix, and they all said no. I asked NetFlix and the Sony Store and they both said it would stream no problem, just download the firmware when I install the TV. All of the Best Buy guys insisted NetFlix and Sony (!!) were wrong, but I gambled and bough the TV at a cheaper price at Best Buy anyway. I took it home, downloaded the firmware, and voila, I have a nice little setup and am addicted to streaming NetFlix.

Where's Chuck and that BuyMore when you need it!

[alteran]

This is ridiculous. HTC should sue them right back. They've been around much longer in the field, and Apple is probably infringing on many of their patents. Google should get involved as well and sic their lawyers on this.

I'm sure they will. They've been doing phones and PDAs much longer than Apple, and undoubtedly have more than enough handheld, cell phone, and smartphone IP to countersue.

I'm not sure I see what Apple is thinking.

[alteran]

He talked about aps. He said that within the next couple of months, there would be thousands (I think he actually said close to 100,000) aps released for the Palm Pre, which would make it a very attractive phone. Have any of you mavens heard this?

I agree with hc5, the BB rep was blowing smoke. I'd blame stupidity more than anything, they don't get commissions, unless I'm mistaken.

The hotspot is pretty cool if you had a big use for that.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I agree with hc5, the BB rep was blowing smoke. I'd blame stupidity more than anything, they don't get commissions, unless I'm mistaken.

The hotspot is pretty cool if you had a big use for that.

The guy was a Palm rep, supporting the promotion that BB had going on that weekend. He didn't work for BB.

Thanks for the links above to the Palm Pre reviews and aps. I did learn that the wifi hot spot costs $40/month, so that I'm not interested in. And if I had a smart phone, why would I even need to carry my netbook for internet browsing, other that for larger screen size?

The reason I was in BB to begin with was to buy one of the Virgin Mobile usb G3 connectors for the netbook. It costs ~$100 and you can buy bandwidth for as little as $10 for 5 hours, $20 for 12 hours of browsing, which would have been fine for the week I needed it (the unused time expires after 10 days). But all the Best Buys in Raleigh (before I left) and in Ft. Lauderdale were out of them and they were on back order. Either they work so well that they couldn't keep them on the shelf (OK, I can't keep that sarcasm with a straight face, even sitting here at my desk) or they have been withdrawn from sale for a rework. I wish one of the carriers, any damn one of them, would rent a usb connector by the week or month and not have an airtime contract requirement. I need the thing only a couple or four weeks a year - no way I'm signing up for something that has a monthly contract of $40 to $60.

[alteran]

The guy was a Palm rep, supporting the promotion that BB had going on that weekend. He didn't work for BB.

Thanks for the links above to the Palm Pre reviews and aps. I did learn that the wifi hot spot costs $40/month, so that I'm not interested in. And if I had a smart phone, why would I even need to carry my netbook for internet browsing, other that for larger screen size?

Ahh, it was a Palm rep. That's different, then. In the words of Emily Litella, "never mind."

I wish one of the carriers, any damn one of them, would rent a usb connector by the week or month and not have an airtime contract requirement. I need the thing only a couple or four weeks a year - no way I'm signing up for something that has a monthly contract of $40 to $60.

+1

I want something very similar-- a pay-per-minute data plan on my phone. I don't want to use it hardly at all-- I just want it to be there when I need it. You can do this with voice and SMS on cell phones. Heck, I'm willing to pay a premium for that. I'm just not willing to up my cell bill literally $55 a month JUST to get data on rare occasions.

Seriously, won't somebody out there sell me data for 50 cents a minute? I've got my money right here!

I was whining about this to my brother, and I think I said something like, "isn't capitalism supposed to solve this? Capitalism doesn't work!"

His answer was, "absolutely capitalism works. Just not for consumers."

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE
I wish one of the carriers, any damn one of them, would rent a usb connector by the week or month and not have an airtime contract requirement. I need the thing only a couple or four weeks a year - no way I'm signing up for something that has a monthly contract of $40 to $60.

+1

I want something very similar-- a pay-per-minute data plan on my phone. I don't want to use it hardly at all-- I just want it to be there when I need it. You can do this with voice and SMS on cell phones. Heck, I'm willing to pay a premium for that. I'm just not willing to up my cell bill literally $55 a month JUST to get data on rare occasions.

Seriously, won't somebody out there sell me data for 50 cents a minute? I've got my money right here!

I was whining about this to my brother, and I think I said something like, "isn't capitalism supposed to solve this? Capitalism doesn't work!"

His answer was, "absolutely capitalism works. Just not for consumers."

Sure capitalism works. Government just needs to get the hell out of the way! Not wanting to go all PPB on this, but my friend, maybe WE need to be the capitalists to put this thing together! There's capital to be made here!

[alteran]

Sure capitalism works. Government just needs to get the hell out of the way! Not wanting to go all PPB on this, but my friend, maybe WE need to be the capitalists to put this thing together! There's capital to be made here!

I can almost hear the theme music from Animal House during the "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor" speech.

Let's GO!!!!

Seriously, Tracfone offers per-minute data, but they only let you use very primitive, uhm, fones.

[littlejohn]

A few things to consider:

1) Just because you've been around longer than a competitor doesn't mean you invented all there is, in whatever industry segment you're in. There are a LOT of has beens in the computer world still around, however, new & old competitors alike "out invent" & seek patent protection for their intellectual properties in the same market segment all the time.

2) It would seem more likely if Apple had tromped on HTC's patents, HTC would have filed suit before, or certainly shortly after, the iPhone came out. This would seem to especially be true with the success of the iPhone. If Apple had infringed on my patent, think of the money I could collect from them with such a popular product.

3) Microsoft is at the fringes of this, as I believe they have had agreements in place for years with Apple over mobile applications.

4) HTC is a far easier target than Google, just based on resources. Plus, IF Apple gets a win under its belt, it is much easier in the future to snub out anyone else who is infringing on their intellectual properties.

[DukeUsul]

I enjoyed this article and thought some of you might as well.

http://daringfireball.net/2010/03/th...c_patent_thing

[hc5duke]

1) Just because you've been around longer than a competitor doesn't mean you invented all there is, in whatever industry segment you're in. There are a LOT of has beens in the computer world still around, however, new & old competitors alike "out invent" & seek patent protection for their intellectual properties in the same market segment all the time.

There are lots of worthless patents, a lot of which are filed to cover their own butts so ridiculous lawsuits like this doesn't happen. One prime example of ridiculous patent from Apple's lawsuit is "Unlocking a device by performing gestures on an unlock image". Really, Apple?

2) It would seem more likely if Apple had tromped on HTC's patents, HTC would have filed suit before, or certainly shortly after, the iPhone came out. This would seem to especially be true with the success of the iPhone. If Apple had infringed on my patent, think of the money I could collect from them with such a popular product.

Or the other patent holders aren't stupid enough to go after other companies with worthless patents. Again the main reason for filing these patents is like playing the arms game in Cold War - you build weapons not necessarily to use it, but in hoping that the other guy doesn't use it against you.

4) HTC is a far easier target than Google, just based on resources. Plus, IF Apple gets a win under its belt, it is much easier in the future to snub out anyone else who is infringing on their intellectual properties.

Right. Which is why the patent system is broken, and why this case makes a lot of people angry, including Apple backers. The ironic part of all this is that Apple is well known for copying a Xerox product at the beginning stages of the company.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Stray - are you still thrilled with your Moto Android? Sam's Club is selling them for $129.99 this weekend on Verizon. I'm getting tempted.

[alteran]

Interestng analysis on a law site.

Short version-- HTC has been criminally negligent in filing for patents and is an easy target. Apple has traditionally avoided lucre-based patent litigation, so this is likely about strangling Android.

The only things standing in Apple's way are the possibility that HTC has a lot of patents filed-but-not-yet-approved or submarine patents (similar but hard to explain), or that Google gets involved.

EDIT

Found this, too.

DaringFireball aren't koolaid drinking Apple fanboys by any stretch (and it's a great blog if you're interested in Apple), but you won't find too much critical of Apple there except for this.