I heard about that. I feel like most people who defend AI defend him for similar reasons. The guy was ferocious, and played every minute (in the game) like it was his last. He's also a cultural icon, so it's easy to see him in a different light. You sort don't want to root against him almost. As a basketball purist, I don't think any of that matters. Kidd played the game with just as much heart and passion. I can say the same for GP, Nowitzki, and Nash. I think there are players on the list (who AI ranks above) that played with just as much heart, but also contributed in every facet of the game (including the playoffs).
Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.
You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner
You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke
I am a Simmons fan, but lines like the following from his just-posted NBA Trade Value Column test my faith:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...ons/100208/one
"Carlos Boozer: Gets a Trade Value DNP because he's a free agent-to-be. I can't tell if the Jazz would trade him, or if anyone wants him. You know what else this means? For the first time ever, no Blue Devils in the top 40! Woohoo! Suck it, Duke! This never would have happened if Mike Krzyzewski was still alive."
I'm not a Simmons fan. He knows the game, but his ballast and bluster make him practically unreadable most of the time, and that's from a guy who has a fair amount of ballast and bluster.
I guess I dont really evaluate columnists based on how they treat my teams, unless they are ridiculous. A lot of times DBR posters disagree but a columnist is still on target.
Simmons point about Boozer is fair. I think there's a perception that Boozer is often injured and completely happy to be a hired gun, moving from team to team based on the bottom ($) line.
I've never been a Celtics fan, but I watched many games in those days...
In addition to the skills already mentioned by others, Russell was the best ever at starting the fast break. He'd grab a rebound, and before even hitting the floor, he was into his motion for a half-court outlet pass. The Celtics thrived on the fast break, and it all started with Bill. He made the players around him better, which you can't say about Wilt.
My biggest issue with the Simmons book was his whole "The Secret" angle.
[whisper]It's TEAMWORK.[/whisper]
What a revelation...
Didn't want to start a whole thread for this, but thought it was an interesting read on how Rasheed Wallace can completely destroy your team:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...7&sportCat=nba
I have only been able to experience Rasheed back from his UNC days a few times on ESPN classic, but do you guys remember him being this obnoxious in college? What a credit to the UNC program, hah.
Do I remember him being that obnoxious? GOD yes. He's one of those guys I couldn't wait to be gone, not for his ability (Jamison fell into that category) but because he was just such an irritant. Truly someone I have never cared for in any capacity. I'm trying to remember if it was on here somewhere or another place where I read the story about how he treated a Trailblazer fan who was there for a signing and was treated well by every player on the team BUT him. Cantreed effectively blew off the fan very harshly. Anyone better remember the specifics of that story?
I'm enjoying the fact that Duke's title must be killing Simmons.
loves Jordan, he was great, he won championships (6) in the NBA, he won (on the coattails of Worthy) one NCAA title. After Worthy left they got beat early in the NCAA the next year by Indiana. Bill Russell was the most dominant player to ever play basketball. If you wanted to win you had to have Russell. Two NCAA titles, 11 NBA titles and a Olympic Gold Medal, when it meant something to do so. I was having a conversation with a friend once and we were talking about who would win if we were to pick our own teams, along the same lines as a NBA draft. He kept saying as long as he could have Jordan, i could have the first pick. I told him we would do it that way and that he had absolutely NO chance of ever beating me. So i took Bill Russell, he took Jordan and then i took Magic, he said, you know what, you're right, its impossible to beat a team with Russell and Magic on it and i agree. Todays fan, drinks from the ESPN koo-ade, why do you think todays kids know nothing of Russell, yet they know everything about Jordan? TV, Jordan became a marketing celeb, yet many of the players who played with Jordan did not and continue to dislike him and his ways. I've seen just about every player to ever play the game in the last 50 years and it would be almost impossible to pick who is what but i'll try. Lew Alcindor (Kareem Abdul Jabbar) was the greatest basketball talent i ever saw. He was the greatest High School, College and Pro player i ever saw BUT if i wanted to start a team, to win a championship, i'd take Russell, he knew how to win and he never quit, thats my take, jmo.
I got this book for Christmas and am very excited to read it. I like Simmons and am even more impressed now that he has been showing respect for coach K and the job he did with the Olympians.
“Those two kids, they’re champions,” Krzyzewski said of his senior leaders. “They’re trying to teach the other kids how to become that, and it’s a long road to become that.”
I am not the fastest book reader in the world. Unfortunately, I only get through about 4 a year or so (quite a few more than Kemba Walker, apparently.) I finally got through this one and it was a very enjoyable one, in my opinion. I agree that it was nice to get a perspective on some of the different eras in the NBA and ABA and how that may have impacted stats and how good players were. One part I didn't necessarily like however is how some earlier players or teams were severely discounted, or eliminated from consideration, because of their era. That was his way to analyze all the information and make rankings and it didn't take away much for me.
I did appreciate his final rankings for Kareem (who he, annoyingly to me, always refers to as a ninny, but he did have a nice write-up about him), Magic and Larry and enjoyed his discussions about why he ranked players above or below others.
I also generally like Simmons brand of humor, though I didn't need to read some of his cruder references. I agree his first hand interview are highlights of the book and the Walton discussion was a nice ending.
His Russell vs. Wilt discussion was fascinating to me and I always enjoy when Olympic Fan chimes in with his perspective on GOAT from time to time. After reading that well researched chapter, I would find it hard to argue for Wilt over Russell as a basketball player that gives his team a better chance to win.
I agree with your point that Duke fans may often appreciate his valuation of a basketball player, which makes it all the more frustrating when he goes on his anti-Duke rants. I would expect he appreciates the way Duke plays and has at times shown an appreciation for coach K, but the anti-Duke angle is one of his shticks and probably just an irrational hatred from childhood, like his anti-Yankee, anti-Laker sentiment.
I actually mostly enjoyed the footnotes, as I would look forward to the additional information that many of them provided.
I never did get tired reading the book, but agree that some of the frat boy humor, race and sexist discussions may take away from his well-researched and passionate discussion of the NBA. I guess that is what some of his fanbase reads him for.
I was surprised to see Horry ranked as highly (or at all) as he was, enjoyed his rationale for it, but would still have to disagree with Simmons there. I don't disagree with his ranking of Pippen and think Pippen would make a great documentary. I wonder if Pippen is at least partially responsible for the draft combine picks like Olowokandi, because of how he came out of nowhere, showed very well at pre-draft camps and then turned out to be a fabulous pro.
I really enjoyed your post and unfortunately, it is way too old to give sporks for it.
“Those two kids, they’re champions,” Krzyzewski said of his senior leaders. “They’re trying to teach the other kids how to become that, and it’s a long road to become that.”
If El Dirko makes the Finals, he jumps up Simmons' pyramid list a few spots (37th in the first edition of the book; may have moved up in the paperback). But imagine this: Dirk leads the Mavs to titles this year and next, winning the Finals MVP twice, then fades away in 2017.
Does he leap into the top 10 of all-time? That's basically the arc of Hakeem's career, although Hakeem was an all-time great defender. Dirk's ceiling at this point is around 13th/14th. But he's probably working his way into Barkley(19)/Malone(18) range now.
Here's some career stats hilights:
1st, 2nd or 3rd team all-NBA for 11 straight seasons now.
28th alltime in scoring (including ABA); chance to make top 5-6 with 4-5 more seasons.
2007 MVP.
Also, Jason Kidd (42) could be rising as well. He's 3rd on the all-time 3-pointers made list, 3rd on the steals list and 2nd on the assists list behind Stockton. He could leap past Gary Payton (40), Steve Nash (38) and Sam Jones (33) among point guards.
Kobe was upgraded to #8 in the paperback (I think) and probably missed a chance of cracking the top 5 with a title and Finals mvp this year. He's got maybe 1-2 more title chances left unless the Lakers pull off a monster trade (Dwight Howard).
I agree Dirk has a chance to move up in Simmons' rankings, but I think those are some pretty huge hypotheticals about multiple titles and Finals' MVPs. I think if he leads the team to the finals this year, he probably moves up, but I am not willing to make predictions beyond that. Otherwise, you can make predictions about anyone who leads a team to a championship will move up these rankings and I think that is fair. E.g. Derrick Rose moves in if Chicago were to win, same with Durant for OKC. LeBron and Wade move up if Miami wins. The figures you state about Nowitzki are pretty compelling though.
I agree that Kidd could be moving up as well, but I have a hard time seeing him pass Nash, unless he plays quite a bit longer than Nash, since Nash is still playing and playing better than Kidd.
I doubt Kobe would have cracked the top 5 with a title and MVP, but who knows. I would think the Lakers had a better title opportunity this year than they will next year, but I guess that is why they play the games.
“Those two kids, they’re champions,” Krzyzewski said of his senior leaders. “They’re trying to teach the other kids how to become that, and it’s a long road to become that.”
If Kobe were to win another title and Finals MVP, he'd have 6 titles and 3 Finals MVPs. That puts him ahead of Duncan's 4 titles and 2 MVPs and up their in the Magic and Larry conversation. When Kobe eventually retires, he's probably going to either be 2nd all-time in scoring behind Kareem or 3rd behind Malone. Not bad.
It's just cool to speculate about all this stuff because of the guys that are active players now who are already top 50. Guys like LeBron, Rose and Durant are so young that it's a lot harder to project where they wind up. LeBron could easily go down as the greatest player to never win a title (top 20), or he could win 2 titles and be a top 10, or he could win 5 and be top 5-6.
I really do hope these guys stay healthy. It's kinda sad to think about where Chris Paul might have gone. I suspect he wont play the massive number of minutes to be in league with Shaq, Kobe, Duncan and Dirk.