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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Cumulative Plus/Minus, 2010

    Updated through the Butler NCAA Tournament game -- final season totals.

    INDIVIDUALS
    Kyle Singler 2,799-2,166 (+633) (94-60, 65-40, 72-36, 79-50, 64-53, 56-49, 69-73, 80-71, 80-40, 55-30, 69-47, 81-47, 74-53, 84-58, 67-66, 67-36, 87-70, 74-86, 60-45, 70-54, 68-85, 82-61, 64-61, 64-54, 73-50, 81-74, 67-55, 62-42, 61-26, 72-79, 76-48, 48-31, 76-72, 65-61, 54-22, 68-51, 68-53, 67-61, 75-57, 61-59)
    Jon Scheyer 2,853-2,228 (+625) (92-58, 65-40, 77-41, 77-50, 64-53, 63-53, 67-69, 77-69, 88-45, 63-34, 84-62, 87-49, 70-53, 84-63, 65-69, 76-47, 84-66, 74-86, 60-47, 63-56, 74-85, 86-65, 66-63, 64-54, 69-46, 72-62, 67-55, 60-42, 61-31, 68-74, 80-46, 57-46, 71-70, 60-58, 70-39, 68-48, 70-57, 78-71, 75-54, 57-52)
    Nolan Smith 2,562-2,082 (+480) (XX, XX, 78-46, 78-49, 64-53, 68-57, 59-67, 62-60, 64-39, 63-30, 75-55, 71-37, 72-50, 79-60, 52-57, 69-49, 90-68, 74-88, 54-45, 70-52, 64-81, 86-65, 66-63, 64-53, 67-53, 79-70, 67-53, 62-45, 40-31, 70-77, 75-47, 53-44, 65-66, 53-49, 69-34, 68-53, 65-51, 78-71, 68-55, 61-59)
    Lance Thomas 1,911-1,472 (+439) (73-41, 43-29, 47-30, 37-34, 34-27, 48-36, 27-40, 68-57, 43-33, 48-15, 52-45, 47-33, 52-37, 73-41, 16-25, 33-29, 33-21, 58-79, 49-36, 60-39, 62-63, 72-57, 38-32, 25-25, 46-28, 66-47, 53-35, 40-33, 37-24, 44-36, 42-16, 35-28, 54-47, 36-35, 45-20, 49-38, 57-44, 49-42, 63-48, 57-47)
    Brian Zoubek 1,449-1,083 (+366) (46-25, 32-20, 27-27, 45-16, 29-27, 36-26, 15-19, 36-33, 58-27, 39-20, 57-32, 39-23, 33-14, 24-24, 33-32, 31-23, 12-23, 26-21, 24-20, 27-15, 2-9, 26-24, 42-37, 16-13, 40-21, 59-53, 52-36, 39-29, 29-13, 51-55, 49-20, 24-15, 60-55, 41-40, 35-18, 43-31, 38-26, 38-37, 50-39, 46-45)
    Miles Plumlee 1,266-1,016 (+250) (46-36, 42-29, 70-30, 55-46, 27-23, 30-30, 50-39, 13-10, 48-29, 21-10, 27-27, 63-30, 37-39, 32-23, 29-30, 39-23, 81-47, 16-27, 36-25, 29-26, 43-51, 20-19, 11-15, 18-13, 19-18, 10-12, 14-13, 28-19, 31-28, 21-24, 33-30, 29-29, 17-19, 22-19, 30-26, 23-16, 29-27, 34-27, 28-18, 15-14)
    Andre Dawkins 955-790 (+165) (34-24, 49-32, 48-31, 67-34, 32-24, 31-27, 43-43, 43-34, 68-52, 34-17, 15-16, 53-21, 8-3, 14-9, 22-26, 31-35, 27-23, 21-23, XX, 16-14, 26-32, XX, 4-2, 19-10, 22-16, 19-25, 6-11, 24-19, 29-31, 20-24, 23-13, 13-15, 12-8, 19-17, 17-22, 2-9, 8-8, 20-24, 10-5, 6-11)
    Mason Plumlee 906-765 (+141) (XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, 15-15, 10-12, 47-29, 25-20, 26-15, 56-17, 22-16, 36-38, 51-46, 41-32, 32-21, 24-28, 11-13, 15-22, 31-20, 45-25, 24-27, 48-43, 37-32, 13-22, 9-13, 27-17, 34-28, 14-26, 28-24, 26-20, 29-31, 29-26, 28-24, 17-11, 13-13, 26-22, 15-9, 2-8)
    Ryan Kelly 431-359 (+72) (27-26, 37-20, 46-17, 51-28, 6-5, 8-11, XX, 11-9, 56-27, 19-19, 15-16, 41-14, 2-0, 2-5, 0-4, 5-14, 4-11, 3-2, 6-4, 0-2, 15-19, 9-11, 15-15, 2-5, 8-10, 6-5, 0-4, 7-10, 6-18, XX, 2-4, 0-2, 1-2, XX, 14-10, 2-6, 2-4, XX, 3-0, XX)
    Olek Czyz 129-99 (+30) (62-36, 19-17, 23-20, 23-15, XX, 0-2, XX, XX, 2-9, N/A-TRANSFER)
    Jordan Davidson 88-84 (+4) (XX, 9-9, 14-7, 4-7, XX, 0-2, XX, XX, 9-5, 11-7, 0-0, 15-2, XX, 2-2, XX, 3-7, 0-0, XX, XX, XX, XX, 4-6, XX, XX, 4-6, XX, XX, 1-4, 4-10, XX, 2-1, 0-0, XX, XX, 3-5, 0-2, 0-2, XX, 3-0, XX)
    Casey Peters 11-13 (-2) (2-0, XX, 0-5, 2-3, XX, XX, XX, XX, 2-5, XX, XX, 5-0, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, 0-0, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, 0-0, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX)
    Steve Johnson 35-38 (-3) (4-4, 9-9, 3-5, 2-3, XX, 0-2, XX, XX, XX, 2-3, 0-0, 12-2, XX, 0-2, XX, XX, 0-0, XX, XX, XX, XX, 0-2, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, 3-5, XX, 0-1, XX, XX, XX, 0-0, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX)

    PER 40 MINUTES
    Olek Czyz +19.7
    Brian Zoubek +19.6
    Kyle Singler +17.6
    Lance Thomas +17.3
    Jon Scheyer +17.0
    Miles Plumlee +15.3
    Nolan Smith +14.2
    Andre Dawkins +13.8
    Ryan Kelly +12.7
    Mason Plumlee +11.8
    Jordan Davidson +2.9
    Steve Johnson -5.0
    Casey Peters -10.0

    LINEUPS
    Scheyer-Smith-Singler-Thomas-Zoubek (x144) 82-572 (+210)
    Scheyer-Smith-Singler-Thomas-Miles (x118) 528-416 (+112)
    Scheyer-Smith-Singler-Mason-Zoubek (x57) 190-146 (+44)
    Scheyer-Smith-Singler-Thomas-Mason (x32) 133-100 (+33)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Singler-Mason-Miles (x19) 57-28 (+29)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Singler-Thomas-Zoubek (x20) 72-44 (+28)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Singler-Mason-Zoubek (x15) 52-28 (+24)
    Scheyer-Smith-Singler-Mason-Miles (x67) 245-222 (+23)
    Scheyer-Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Zoubek (x20) 100-80 (+20)
    Scheyer-Singler-Thomas-Czyz-Zoubek (x3) 33-13 (+20)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Singler-Kelly-Zoubek (x10) 33-17 (+16)
    Scheyer-Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Miles (x21) 74-61 (+13)
    Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Thomas-Miles (x10) 32-20 (+12)
    Scheyer-Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Kelly (x10) 25-13 (+12)
    Scheyer-Smith-Dawkins-Thomas-Zoubek (x14) 30-19 (+11)
    Scheyer-Singler-Thomas-Kelly-Miles (x3) 12-4 (+8)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Singler-Thomas-Miles (x16) 45-38 (+7)
    Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Mason-Miles (x7) 25-18 (+7)
    Scheyer-Singler-Thomas-Czyz-Miles (x5) 20-13 (+7)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Singler-Kelly-Miles (x4) 17-11 (+6)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Singler-Thomas-Kelly (x2) 10-4 (+6)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Thomas-Kelly-Miles (x4) 11-6 (+5)
    Scheyer-Smith-Singler-Miles-Zoubek (x2) 5-0 (+5)
    Davidson-Peters-Johnson-Kelly-Mason (x2) 5-0 (+5)
    Davidson-Dawkins-Czyz-Kelly-Miles 5-0 (+5)
    Scheyer-Smith-Dawkins-Kelly-Zoubek (x7) 21-17 (+4)
    Scheyer-Smith-Thomas-Kelly-Mason (x4) 11-7 (+4)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Singler-Czyz-Miles (x2) 10-6 (+4)
    Scheyer-Smith-Kelly-Mason-Zoubek (x2) 6-2 (+4)
    Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Kelly-Miles (x4) 8-5 (+3)
    Scheyer-Singler-Czyz-Kelly-Miles (x3) 15-12 (+3)
    Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Thomas-Kelly (x3) 5-2 (+3)
    Scheyer-Davidson-Singler-Thomas-Miles 5-2 (+3)
    Smith-Dawkins-Czyz-Kelly-Miles 5-2 (+3)
    Davidson-Johnson-Czyz-Miles-Zoubek 3-0 (+3)
    Smith-Singler-Thomas-Kelly-Miles 3-0 (+3)
    Davidson-Dawkins-Kelly-Mason-Zoubek 3-0 (+3)
    Scheyer-Smith-Singler-Kelly-Miles (x9) 27-25 (+2)
    Smith-Dawkins-Thomas-Kelly-Miles (x5) 11-9 (+2)
    Scheyer-Smith-Dawkins-Kelly-Miles (x3) 7-5 (+2)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Singler-Miles-Zoubek 8-6 (+2)
    Smith-Singler-Thomas-Mason-Zoubek 6-4 (+2)
    Smith-Dawkins-Thomas-Czyz-Zoubek 4-2 (+2)
    Peters-Dawkins-Johnson-Kelly-Miles 2-0 (+2)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Thomas-Kelly-Mason 2-0 (+2)
    Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Kelly-Mason 2-0 (+2)
    Davidson-Dawkins-Singler-Kelly-Mason 2-0 (+2)
    Davidson-Smith-Singler-Mason-Miles 2-0 (+2)
    Davidson-Dawkins-Kelly-Mason-Miles (x7) 15-14 (+1)
    Scheyer-Smith-Singler-Thomas-Kelly (x5) 8-7 (+1)
    Scheyer-Smith-Dawkins-Thomas-Mason (x5) 5-4 (+1)
    Smith-Dawkins-Thomas-Kelly-Zoubek (x2) 4-3 (+1)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Thomas-Kelly-Zoubek (x2) 3-2 (+1)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Thomas-Czyz-Miles 7-6 (+1)
    Scheyer-Singler-Kelly-Mason-Miles 5-4 (+1)
    Davidson-Dawkins-Thomas-Czyz-Miles 1-0 (+1)
    Scheyer-Smith-Singler-Kelly-Zoubek (x17) 37-37 (+0)
    Scheyer-Smith-Singler-Kelly-Mason (x7) 17-17 (+0)
    Davidson-Dawkins-Johnson-Kelly-Mason (x5) 12-12 (+0)
    Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Kelly-Zoubek (x4) 10-10 (+0)
    Scheyer-Smith-Dawkins-Kelly-Mason (x3) 0-0 (+0)
    Scheyer-Singler-Thomas-Czyz-Kelly (x2) 4-4 (+0)
    Davidson-Johnson-Czyz-Kelly-Miles 9-9 (+0)
    Smith-Dawkins-Czyz-Kelly-Zoubek 4-4 (+0)
    Smith-Singler-Kelly-Mason-Zoubek 4-4 (+0)
    Scheyer-Davidson-Smith-Kelly-Zoubek 4-4 (+0)
    Davidson-Dawkins-Thomas-Czyz-Kelly 2-2 (+0)
    Scheyer-Smith-Thomas-Kelly-Zoubek 2-2 (+0)
    Davidson-Smith-Dawkins-Thomas-Kelly 2-2 (+0)
    Scheyer-Smith-Dawkins-Thomas-Kelly 2-2 (+0)
    Scheyer-Singler-Czyz-Kelly-Zoubek 0-0 (+0)
    Davidson-Smith-Johnson-Thomas-Zoubek 0-0 (+0)
    Scheyer-Smith-Dawkins-Miles-Zoubek 0-0 (+0)
    Davidson-Smith-Dawkins-Miles-Zoubek 0-0 (+0)
    Davidson-Dawkins-Johnson-Thomas-Kelly 0-0 (+0)
    Scheyer-Singler-Thomas-Kelly-Zoubek 0-0 (+0)
    Scheyer-Davidson-Smith-Thomas-Zoubek 0-0 (+0)
    Scheyer-Davidson-Singler-Thomas-Kelly 0-0 (+0)
    Davidson-Peters-Johnson-Thomas-Kelly 0-0 (+0)
    Smith-Dawkins-Kelly-Mason-Miles 0-0 (+0)
    Scheyer-Smith-Dawkins-Mason-Zoubek (x3) 2-3 (-1)
    Davidson-Dawkins-Thomas-Kelly-Mason (x2) 10-11 (-1)
    Davidson-Johnson-Kelly-Mason-Miles (x2) 0-1 (-1)
    Davidson-Peters-Johnson-Czyz-Kelly 2-3 (-1)
    Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Mason-Zoubek (x6) 7-9 (-2)
    Scheyer-Smith-Dawkins-Thomas-Miles (x5) 10-12 (-2)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Singler-Thomas-Mason (x5) 7-9 (-2)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Kelly-Mason-Miles (x4) 2-4 (-2)
    Davidson-Smith-Dawkins-Kelly-Mason (x3) 4-6 (-2)
    Smith-Singler-Thomas-Kelly-Zoubek (x2) 3-5 (-2)
    Scheyer-Thomas-Czyz-Kelly-Miles (x2) 0-2 (-2)
    Scheyer-Davidson-Dawkins-Thomas-Kelly 0-2 (-2)
    Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Czyz-Zoubek 3-5 (-2)
    Dawkins-Johnson-Singler-Thomas-Miles 2-4 (-2)
    Davidson-Dawkins-Thomas-Kelly-Miles 0-2 (-2)
    Davidson-Dawkins-Johnson-Czyz-Kelly 0-2 (-2)
    Davidson-Johnson-Thomas-Kelly-Mason 0-2 (-2)
    Davidson-Peters-Dawkins-Kelly-Mason 2-5 (-3)
    Scheyer-Smith-Dawkins-Mason-Miles (x15) 31-35 (-4)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Kelly-Mason-Zoubek (x6) 10-15 (-5)
    Smith-Dawkins-Kelly-Mason-Zoubek (x4) 4-9 (-5)
    Scheyer-Smith-Thomas-Kelly-Miles (x3) 0-5 (-5)
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Singler-Kelly-Mason (x2) 0-5 (-5)
    Davidson-Peters-Johnson-Czyz-Zoubek 0-5 (-5)
    Scheyer-Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Thomas (x26) 78-84 (-6)
    Smith-Dawkins-Thomas-Czyz-Miles 2-9 (-7)
    Scheyer-Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Mason (x13) 30-41 (-11)
    Smith-Dawkins-Singler-Thomas-Zoubek (x8) 4-16 (-12)

    NET +/-
    Code:
    Name        Net+/-     +/-On  +/-Off    +/-    +/-    +/-
    ******        per 40    per 40  per 40  On Tot Off Tot Net Tot
    Singler       15.92     17.63     1.71    633      7     626
    Scheyer       12.39     17.01     4.62    625     15     610
    Zoubek         6.79     19.62    12.83    366    274      92
    Czyz           3.82     19.67    15.85     30    610    -580
    Thomas         3.64     17.33    13.70    439    201     238
    Mi. Plumlee   -1.20     15.29    16.49    250    390    -140
    Dawkins       -3.08     13.84    16.92    165    475    -310
    Kelly         -3.86     12.69    16.55     72    568    -496
    Ma. Plumlee   -6.07     11.75    17.82    141    499    -358
    Smith        -11.27     14.23    25.50    480    160     320
    Davidson     -13.56      2.91    16.47      4    636    -632
    Johnson      -21.32     -5.00    16.32     -3    643    -646
    Peters       -26.13    -10.00    16.13     -2    642    -644
    Last edited by Jumbo; 04-10-2010 at 01:08 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

  3. #3
    I have a question regarding +/-, how does FTs play into this stat? Is it completely not used in calculating +/-, is the +/- awarded to the players who was on the floor when the foul was committed, or awareded to the player who is the on floor when the FT is taken?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam Filter View Post
    I have a question regarding +/-, how does FTs play into this stat? Is it completely not used in calculating +/-, is the +/- awarded to the players who was on the floor when the foul was committed, or awareded to the player who is the on floor when the FT is taken?
    Awarded to the guys on the floor when the foul was committed.

  5. #5
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    Feb 2007

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

  7. #7
    There must be a mistake, how can Plumlee, Smith, Czyz, Thomas have negative +/- per 40 stats when they are net positive overall?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Question Seeming Problems in Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Now updated through the UConn game ...
    Jumbo:

    I may be missing something, but Nolan is +83 but a -5.8 on a 40-minute basis. I don't think that's possible.

    Also, same problem with Miles, Olek, Lance and Jordan.

    sagegrouse

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam Filter View Post
    There must be a mistake, how can Plumlee, Smith, Czyz, Thomas have negative +/- per 40 stats when they are net positive overall?
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Jumbo:

    I may be missing something, but Nolan is +83 but a -5.8 on a 40-minute basis. I don't think that's possible.

    Also, same problem with Miles, Olek, Lance and Jordan.

    sagegrouse
    Whoops! Copied the wrong column -- that was net (on-court vs. off-court). Fixing now -- thanks guys!

  10. #10
    Also, I think Nolan's numbers might be incorrect in the net +/- and maybe in other categories. He missed 2 games, so his total should be lower in "+/- off."

    I see that Mason is also calculated on the net without ever playing. That stat is completely meaningless the way it is calculated right now. I don't understand it. If Mason came in and played 40 minutes and we won by 158, he would be back to zero, even though he only played in one game.
    Last edited by FireOgilvie; 11-29-2009 at 12:41 AM.

  11. #11
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by FireOgilvie View Post
    Also, I think Nolan's numbers might be incorrect in the net +/- and maybe in other categories. He missed 2 games, so his total should be lower in "+/- off."
    Those two games count as "off court." After all, he wasn't on the court!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Those two games count as "off court." After all, he wasn't on the court!
    Okay, but the whole point is to compare how well the team does while the player is playing versus not playing within games. Nolan's numbers are flawed because he didn't play at all in two blowouts against weak competition. Now that he is back and playing a higher percentage of games against stronger competition, his numbers are lowered by the first two games he didn't play, even though we probably would have won by more if he COULD have played. I guess as long as everyone understands that the net +/- numbers don't actually mean anything for Nolan, it's fine.

  13. #13
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by FireOgilvie View Post
    Okay, but the whole point is to compare how well the team does while the player is playing versus not playing within games. Nolan's numbers are flawed because he didn't play at all in two blowouts against weak competition. Now that he is back and playing a higher percentage of games against stronger competition, his numbers are lowered by the first two games he didn't play, even though we probably would have won by more if he COULD have played. I guess as long as everyone understands that the net +/- numbers don't actually mean anything for Nolan, it's fine.
    Right or wrong, this is how the season-long stat is recorded. Think about baseball -- if you swing for the fences and hit a deep fly ball to left with no one one base and it's caught, the hitter's batting average decreases, but if there's a runner on third and he scores, it doesn't count as an at-bat. It's possible to have differing points of view on the value of a stat.

    Similarly, if, say, Lance Thomas had missed the first two games instead of Nolan, Duke had won a pair of blowouts, and then he returned and Duke played a couple of closer games, not only would no one be objecting to on-court/off-court including games missed; some would use it as an opportunity to bash Lance.

    I agree with you that Nolan sort of gets the short end of the stick here, but it will equalize over time and there are other stats in the chart that show his value.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

  15. #15
    I agree Nolan will equalize over course of 30 games.

    More than anything else Jumbo's stats show coach K is using Kelly wisely, as he always does with Zoubek.

    Looking at the first set of On court Off court and differencing,

    +20 Kelly
    +7 0r 8 Dawkins, Scheyer, Singler, Zoubek
    +2 Mikes

    -12 Lance
    -13 Nolan is an abberation due to suspension for 2 blowouts

  16. #16
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    Feb 2007

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Connersville, IN
    So, the basis of plus/minus is the points scored by us vs. them while that certain player is on the court right?

  18. #18
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieBoy View Post
    So, the basis of plus/minus is the points scored by us vs. them while that certain player is on the court right?
    Yup. And lineup combos as well.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

  20. #20
    If I see one tiny mistake, I hope I'm not being obnoxious in pointing it out. If it isn't worth fixing, don't do it. I just noticed that this line is wrong.
    Scheyer-Dawkins-Singler-Mason-Miles (x3) XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, XX, 4-2, 12-6 = 16-8 (+6)

    16-8 is +8, not +6. I don't know whether this mistake also translates in the individual stats or not.

    Thanks for doing the stats.

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