Carlyle Cup

[chrishoke]

Women's tennis had a chance to bring home the cup today but lost to the heels 4-1 in C.H. in the 2nd round of the NCAA tourny. The score remains tied. Last chance is w0omen's lacrosse.

[chrishoke]

Women's tennis had a chance to bring home the cup today but lost to the heels 4-1 in C.H. in the 2nd round of the NCAA tourny. The score remains tied. Last chance is w0omen's lacrosse.

Well, the last chance to break the tie is gone - Duke held up its end of the bargain beating J. Hopkins 12-7 but the heels are getting killed by Virginia.
GTHCGTH

[adam]

Did Duke's thumping of UNC in lax today have any affect on The Cup? Just wondering.

[chrishoke]

Did Duke's thumping of UNC in lax today have any affect on The Cup? Just wondering.

No - we had already beat them twice - can you say hat trick.

[duketaylor]

Unfortunately the Holes retain the Cup, tying 13-13. GTHC, GTH!!!

[The Gordog]

Unfortunately the Holes retain the Cup, tying 13-13. GTHC, GTH!!!

What a rediculous system where there is no tie-breaker hierarchy !

GTHC! GTH!!!!

[KBCrazie]

What a rediculous system where there is no tie-breaker hierarchy !

There should be a "total wins" criterion that is used in the event of a tie. Presumably Duke would then get credit for "burying" Carolina in LAX and any other competitions where they went beyond simply winning the series by one game. Anyone know if that would have brought us the cup this year?

[ikiru36]

Sorry for bringing this thread back up to the top!

I don't know the whole formula but could each school receive an extra half point (or whatever) for actually winning the NCAA title in a relevant sport? That seems like a valid sign of additional dominance and it might help each side avoid having to root for the other to survive long enough to meet so as to get a point back (as happened this year with women's lax, I think). It seems silly (and somewhat revolting) to have to root for UNC in something, to win the Carlyle Cup. Also, it means that for every team, they still have a chance to impact the Cup race up until when their season is completely over.

I don't even know if it would make a difference this year (as I have no idea how many N.C.s UNC may have won). Separately, the fact that there can be a tie seems stupid so they've at least got to fix that somehow.

Go Duke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hughgs]

Sorry for bringing this thread back up to the top!

I don't know the whole formula but could each school receive an extra half point (or whatever) for actually winning the NCAA title in a relevant sport? That seems like a valid sign of additional dominance and it might help each side avoid having to root for the other to survive long enough to meet so as to get a point back (as happened this year with women's lax, I think). It seems silly (and somewhat revolting) to have to root for UNC in something, to win the Carlyle Cup. Also, it means that for every team, they still have a chance to impact the Cup race up until when their season is completely over.

I don't even know if it would make a difference this year (as I have no idea how many N.C.s UNC may have won). Separately, the fact that there can be a tie seems stupid so they've at least got to fix that somehow.

Go Duke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This would make sense if the idea of the Carlyle Cup was to award the best athletic department. However, it's about the head-to-head competition between the two schools.

[ikiru36]

This would make sense if the idea of the Carlyle Cup was to award the best athletic department. However, it's about the head-to-head competition between the two schools.

Fair enough and absolutely valid I imagine.

(though I really thought it was created to help sell jewelry :0)

Let's at least get a current year's performance tie breaker in there/no way for there to be a numerical tie.

Go Duke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pdth78]

This is basically an "Athletic Dept. Match Play" set up using (I assume) all of the sports both schools offer.

By my count, Duke and Carolina competed 33 times in the 2006-07 season Carlyle Cup. Duke won 19 of those events.

Since match play is applied, only 26 points are available. I will call it "modified" Match Play since Football, Mens Basketball, and Womens Basketball each are worth 2 points instead of 1 like all the other sports.

If the arrangement was purely Match Play (one point for each sport)...Duke would win 12-11. The double weighting of B-ball is not as dramatic for us...these teams play at least 2-3 times each year to earn the 2 points. One game of FB is a bad deal for Duke when 2pts are at stake. It would be fairer to all the competitors if the scoring was brought back to 1 point per eligible sport.

[hughgs]

This is basically an "Athletic Dept. Match Play" set up using (I assume) all of the sports both schools offer.

By my count, Duke and Carolina competed 33 times in the 2006-07 season Carlyle Cup. Duke won 19 of those events.

Since match play is applied, only 26 points are available. I will call it "modified" Match Play since Football, Mens Basketball, and Womens Basketball each are worth 2 points instead of 1 like all the other sports.

If the arrangement was purely Match Play (one point for each sport)...Duke would win 12-11. The double weighting of B-ball is not as dramatic for us...these teams play at least 2-3 times each year to earn the 2 points. One game of FB is a bad deal for Duke when 2pts are at stake. It would be fairer to all the competitors if the scoring was brought back to 1 point per eligible sport.

It's not quite that easy. The competition has to account for the difference between the scholarships that the different schools offer and also for the revenue sports as recognized by the different schools. This is part of the rational given for changing the scoring a few years ago.

[pdth78]

Why do scholarships need to muddy this water?

Mens Lax involved 2 nationally ranked programs and ONE point was available.

Football weighs in with 2 points for the leats mediocre program.

Simplify.

[hughgs]

Why do scholarships need to muddy this water?

Mens Lax involved 2 nationally ranked programs and ONE point was available.

Football weighs in with 2 points for the leats mediocre program.

Simplify.

National rankings don't matter. Once again, it's a contest between UNC and Duke, not how well UNC and Duke do nationally.

I'm not defending the point system, just relating the reasons I read concerning the changes to the point system that was made in the past. One cited reason was that the sports are not equally endowed. A prime example was wrestling. Swimming was also cited a couple of years ago, but the scholarship discrepancy may be changing since Duke got a new coach.

[gep]

Hi... I'm not on either side of this debate on tie-breakers... but as I read through these posts, it occurred to me that, most probably, this discussion of tie-breakers would not be happening if Duke currently had the Cup, and would keep it in case of a tie. I think Duke and UNC had to come up with something, and if it needs tweaking, I hope the powers-that-be can agree on something. (just my 2 cents)... thanks...