Alec Baldwin may be funny...

[MarineTwinsDad]

With three grown children (twin sons in the Marine Corps directly out of high school), I still can not agree with any sympathy for the response of Baldwin. I kind of agree with the fact that the tape was leaked, in that it provides support for what could be a battered wife syndrome.

For a number of years I was involved in Middle schools. One year I was on Guam, and conferenced with a mother about her son's behavior. When I made a comment that he wasn't always on his best behavior, she turned around and floored him with one swat. After that I learned to make sure both the parent and child weren't in the same place when I suggested changes in behavior.

But Baldwin is a public figure. He knows that what he says reflects on his image. He also shoud have known that whatever he yelled into that phone would have upset his daughter. He did not have an excuse to speak to her that way.

[Bostondevil]

Tecumseh, I never said it was Baldwin at his worst, what I said and keep saying is, we don't know. What we've seen is an incomplete transcript from one voice mail. There may be more, there may not be. There may be worse, there may not be. We don't know. (And I have to add, nor should we.)

[tecumseh]

Boston Devil
I know you did not say it was Baldwin at his worst, but you said supposed they took the most hateful things any of us have said and put them out over the internet. I was just noting these might not be his worst things so the analogy may not be accurate for all we know this may be Alec Baldwin on a good day.

About the only thing I can say in his defense is that I have seem many instances where divorce makes people act badly. The most extreme example recently is that man who wrecked the plane with his daughter on board into his mother in laws house.

[Bostondevil]

Ok, Tecumseh, and I wasn't really making the point about Baldwin, I was thinking that you could perhaps make an argument that we're all abusers if you took the worst things we've ever said and read them out of context with no background information or evidence of a further apology. And maybe we are all abusers and it's a matter of degree. I think most of us aren't of course but that we've probably all said things that examined by the world at large would give people pause. I'm not excusing it, really, I'm just trying to
say that inexcusable things do happen everyday. Now what? Sometimes you have to accept the apology and move on, right?

And my defense of Alec Baldwin is just that I'm really sorry I know this about him because I don't think it's my business and I think it's unfair that I do know this about him.

[The Gordog]

Well, if we're using that standard, there are far worse things that a child molester can do than just touching a child inappropriately over their clothes. There are far worse things that a spouse abuser can do than pushing his wife down the stairs. There are far worse things a mugger can do than stabbing his victim in the arm.

Just because there are far worse things that could have been done does not mean this is not verbal and emotional abuse.

I understand there are extenuating circumstances, most of which we are unaware of. I understand that, from what we can tell, Kim B. is a royal b**tch. None of that excuses the words that he used and the way he chose to use them.

I have to say, I'm surprised at the level of "oh, it's not that bad" and "we've all lost our temper" discussion that I'm hearing regarding this situation, especially from those who have kids.

Feldspar,
I went back and read the linked article and still do not see anything that raises to the level of verbal abuse. There were no threats of physical or emotional violence. Bad parenting, over-the-top exaggeration? Sure. No excuse? Agreed. But abuse? Please show me what was abuse and why.

[feldspar]

Feldspar,
I went back and read the linked article and still do not see anything that raises to the level of verbal abuse. There were no threats of physical or emotional violence. Bad parenting, over-the-top exaggeration? Sure. No excuse? Agreed. But abuse? Please show me what was abuse and why.

I would suggest that you go read up on what exactly is verbal and emotional abuse. It does not neccessitate the threat of violence.

[tecumseh]

Most of us are not totally comfortable with our bodies avoid the nude look in the mirror. Girls when they are entering puberty are at an especially vulnerable age and for a girls father to be calling her a "pig" at such a time can be hurtful in the extreme. I agree with Feldspar on this one this is really out of line.

[captmojo]

Is this any surprise? Not unlike Don Imus, Alec Baldwin is prone to such outbursts. Not knowing the full story from the other side, there still is a way that a father could better handle his situation. The sad and abusive part is that the daughter has had this call exposed to public scrutiny.

For all you psychies out there, would not the release of this be systematic of a manic depressive action? Doesn't the manic usually aim for the jugular, and then later regret it? I'm looking for public response from Ms Basinger but have yet to see it.

I'm no Baldwin fan but I have to step back and see this in context offering benefit of doubt. He did apologize and it's none of my business.

I believe in not "sparing the rod" but only to the point of it's use to maintain respect. Teddy Roosevelt's quote regarding foreign policy also applies here.Of course there are always exceptions to this rule but I've had success in parenting with this tried and true method. "Speak softly and carry a big stick" means nothing if you don't at least prove you own a stick.

We have become a nation of new age wimps.
time out--gives a kid a chance to sit and plot his next move
gotta wear helmets to bike ride--pads to skate
We kids got injured and learned not to do stupid stuff.

[Clipsfan]

I don't have children, and I do not know how having them will change my perspective, but I have listened to the entire message (I forget the link, but it is on the web as an audio file). Anyway, Baldwin does say a couple things which he probably regrets, but on the whole I don't have a huge problem with what he was trying to tell his daughter. She committed to answering the phone at a set time, understanding that not only is it hard to talk to her dad because her mom is in an incredibly ugly divorce with him and tries to restrict contact but also because he is across the country and is very busy. He basically tells her that he's very upset with her lack of respect and that he doesn't want to have to go across the country just to sort her out, but will if necessary. I think that more parents need to instill respect in their children these days. That doesn't mean I agree with the name calling, and as I don't remember all the details, there may be other elements I disagree with. I still think that the overall message was blown out of proportion due to the name calling, and that the overall message wasn't all that bad. I was yelled at as a child, and punished, and think that it was a good thing on the whole, no matter how much I may have disliked it at the time.

[The Gordog]

I would suggest that you go read up on what exactly is verbal and emotional abuse. It does not neccessitate the threat of violence.

Do you have any suggestions for a succinct summarry of the definition?

What exactly do you think is the most clearly abusive thing he did? Perhaps if we narrow it down to one item it would be easier to understand.

[feldspar]

Perhaps if we narrow it down to one item it would be easier to understand.

Sure thing. A quick Google search turns up these bullets from HelpGuide.org, an online, non-profit resource for mental health, healthy lifestyles and seniors/aging. I've bolded the bullets that I feel apply here:

Verbal or nonverbal abuse of a spouse or intimate partner may include:

• Threatening or intimidating to gain compliance.
• Destruction of the victim’s personal property and possessions, or threats to do so.
• Violence to an animal or object (such as a wall or piece of furniture) in the presence of their partner, as a way of instilling fear.
• Yelling, screaming, name-calling.
• Shaming, mocking, or criticizing the victim, either alone or in front of others.
• Possessiveness, isolation from friends and family.
• Blaming the victim for how the abuser acts or feels.
• Telling the victim that they are worthless on their own.
• Making the victim feel that there is no way out of the relationship.

[Duke4Ever32]

These are examples of abuse of one's partner or spouse - doesn't apply in this case. Certainly a different dynamic is in play in the context of one's spouse vs. in the context of one's child.

[The Gordog]

Sure thing. A quick Google search turns up these bullets from HelpGuide.org, an online, non-profit resource for mental health, healthy lifestyles and seniors/aging. I've bolded the bullets that I feel apply here:

Verbal or nonverbal abuse of a spouse or intimate partner may include:

• Threatening or intimidating to gain compliance.
• Destruction of the victim’s personal property and possessions, or threats to do so.
• Violence to an animal or object (such as a wall or piece of furniture) in the presence of their partner, as a way of instilling fear.
• Yelling, screaming, name-calling.
• Shaming, mocking, or criticizing the victim, either alone or in front of others.
• Possessiveness, isolation from friends and family.
• Blaming the victim for how the abuser acts or feels.
• Telling the victim that they are worthless on their own.
• Making the victim feel that there is no way out of the relationship.

Threatening to gain compliance? Are you serious? That is way too vague. I always say, don' tmake me give you a time out. Threatening to harm the child is what's relevant, and I heard no threats of harm in this example.

Yelling? Come on. That's sad, upsetting to the child. I tell my kids that if their safety is a t stake I WILL yell. Name-calling is wrong, I agree, so is mocking, but it's hardly abuse.

Criticizing? Hardly abuse. And at some point, people should be shamed when they do something terribly wrong. What parent of a teenager has never said, "You should be ashamed of yourself?"

Generalizing his criticizm to say she's worthless is probably the worst thing he did.

Making all this public strikes me as far worse abuse.