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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Atlanta, GA/Durham, NC

    Greatest of the decade?


  2. #2
    Boozer as sixth man!?!

  3. #3
    I sure love reading all those toolhole comments!!! It's like Rumblestiltskin tearing himself in half when the magic word was discovered.
    Ha Ha holes .

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxwell1977 View Post
    Boozer as sixth man!?!
    Yeah, that's not accurate at all. The starting lineup was Williams, James/Duhon, Dunleavy, Battier, Boozer/Sanders. Duhon and James didn't start together in any game, and Sanders was the replacement for Boozer in the starting lineup after the injury.

    If you're basing the lineup on who started most during the entire season, the starters should be Williams, James, Dunleavy, Battier, and Boozer. If you're basing the lineup on the NCAA tournament, it was Williams, Duhon, Dunleavy, Battier, and Sanders.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    I'd definitely rank the 2005 UNC team ahead of the 2009 one. That Villanova game in 2005 was a travesty though. That makes me almost as mad as the 2004 Duke loss to Connecticut because of an extreme case of whistle-itis.

    2001 Duke knocked off a loaded Arizona team (Jefferson, Arenas, Woods, Walton) that, had it won that game, probably would have been #1 on this list as well. So I'd say there's a mile between #1 on the list and all the rest.

    I'd probably have put 2007 Florida at the #2 spot though.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    I'd definitely rank the 2005 UNC team ahead of the 2009 one. That Villanova game in 2005 was a travesty though. That makes me almost as mad as the 2004 Duke loss to Connecticut because of an extreme case of whistle-itis.
    I think the Tool's '05 team gets the nod only because the competition they defeated (or "defeated" in the case of Nova) along the way was much higher. Still, I actually wonder if 2009 won't be regarded as the more talented team in the future (and count me as one who is surprised to be writing this). Felton has been mediocre in the NBA, McCants too (though injury didn't help him). The Cookie Monster is coming close to eating himself out of the league. And, as a Hawks fan, I still cry at night knowing we drafted Williams instead of D Williams or Chris Paul. Despite the fact that I was never much of a Lawson fan, I have to admit he played better this past season than Felton ever played. The fact that Ellington developed a pretty effective floor game to compliment his shooting gives him the edge over McCants even if McCants has more raw tools. And the Davis/Hansbrough/Thompson post contingent beats out May even if May played at a higher level than any one of those.

    Also, I would imagine that Hansbrough, Lawson, Ellington, and Davis, while not regarded as highly as the four drafted in 2005, will have similar career paths for the most part.

    That being said, I do wonder how much of this is due to the competition. College basketball simply didn't have many great teams in 2009.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    That Villanova game in 2005 was a travesty though.
    How?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by AnimalFriendly View Post
    How?
    For one thing, a brutal travel call with seconds to go aided the UNC victory. All three analysts in the CBS control center agreed it was a bad call. It nullified a possible and-one that would have tied the game.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonandblue View Post
    For one thing, a brutal travel call with seconds to go aided the UNC victory. All three analysts in the CBS control center agreed it was a bad call. It nullified a possible and-one that would have tied the game.
    The revisionist history that exists re: the end of this game is simply amazing. For one thing, many noted analysts - well over half that I heard discuss this call afterwards, including Rick Majerus, - said that it absolutely was the correct call. But even if it wasn't and the basket had counted instead of being waived off by the travel, the basket would NOT have tied the game. UNC would still have had the ball with a one-point lead AND only seven seconds left. Sure, a team in that situation could still lose by committing a turnover, etc. It's certainly happened before but the odds of it happening have got to be quite low. If you took a sample of 100 games in which team A had possession of the ball under Team B's basket, a one-point lead and only 7 seconds remaining, I would think that Team A wins 90 of those games at least.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnimalFriendly View Post
    ... But even if it wasn't and the basket had counted instead of being waived off by the travel, the basket would NOT have tied the game. UNC would still have had the ball with a one-point lead AND only seven seconds left. ....
    Um, did you forget the foul? If the basket had counted, the player would have been at the line shooting a free throw to tie the game. UNC would not have had the ball and a one-point lead.

    Call it revisionist history if you want, but I watched the game and that's the way I saw it. Would Villanova have won the game? Maybe not. Did they get robbed of a chance to win it? Yes.

    By the way, don't forget that Villanova was without it's top player for the game.

    In contrast, 2001 Duke won each NCAA game by double digits.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Back in the dirty Jerz
    The best line in the article was on the Maryland entry:

    Williams did not have to sweat too much over this team either...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    Um, did you forget the foul? If the basket had counted, the player would have been at the line shooting a free throw to tie the game. UNC would not have had the ball and a one-point lead.

    Call it revisionist history if you want, but I watched the game and that's the way I saw it. Would Villanova have won the game? Maybe not. Did they get robbed of a chance to win it? Yes.

    By the way, don't forget that Villanova was without it's top player for the game.

    In contrast, 2001 Duke won each NCAA game by double digits.
    No, I didn't forget the "foul" because I don't think McCants committed one on the play and every commentator, during and after, said that, even had the travel call not been made, it was highly unlikely that a "foul" would have been called in that situation. Even if a "foul" was called and the Villanova player happened to hit the free throw, Carolina still would then have had the ball and 7 seconds with which to possibly win the game. Maybe you forgot that.

    I don't think Villanova was close to being "robbed"...several unlikely things would ALL have had to have happened for them to have won that game in overtime...it is extremely unlikely they would have somehow won in regulation.

    Interesting that you remember how Villanova was without its best player but you overlook that Felton...for the only time during the 2005 season which was interesting to say the least...fouled out of the game. I don't remember how much time was left but it was well before the last minute. Both teams were the recipient of questionaable calls in that game - if Felton was around for the last few minutes, Villanova probably never gets anywhere near as close as they did at the end anyway.

  13. #13
    Serveral unlikely things such as McCants missing 1 of 2 from the line and then Lowry hitting a 3? Hmm... those things did actually happen.

    Felton fouled out w/ 2 minutes left in the game. 2 of Villanova's starters fouled out later in the game. There was a lot of foul trouble going around for guards that game.

    I don't think anyone is saying Villanova would have won the game if not for the traveling call but I think it's hard to dispute that they had their chance to win the game taken away from them. They were making a run and Carolina was tightening up a bit. Anything could have happened.

    Kind of funny that you think Felton fouling out w/ 2 minutes left after playing 34 minutes of the game is comparable to Villanova playing without Sumpter (their only talented big man).

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC

    See for yourself. start at 1:10

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnftIKoaQ4w

    Carolina fans know they didnt deserve that one.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnftIKoaQ4w

    Carolina fans know they didnt deserve that one.
    On a thread that declares Duke 2001 the "Team of the Decade," I have no idea why we are complaining about Carolina. As Coach K said during the post game ceremonies in Minneapolis in 2001 when a "GTHC" chant broke out in the upper deck, "Cut that out."

    Or, as the Kennedys said during the 1960 presidential campaign, "Don't get mad, get even." If Carolina won a championship or two, we should do the same.

    sagegrouse

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by InSpades View Post
    Serveral unlikely things such as McCants missing 1 of 2 from the line and then Lowry hitting a 3? Hmm... those things did actually happen.

    Felton fouled out w/ 2 minutes left in the game. 2 of Villanova's starters fouled out later in the game. There was a lot of foul trouble going around for guards that game.

    I don't think anyone is saying Villanova would have won the game if not for the traveling call but I think it's hard to dispute that they had their chance to win the game taken away from them. They were making a run and Carolina was tightening up a bit. Anything could have happened.

    Kind of funny that you think Felton fouling out w/ 2 minutes left after playing 34 minutes of the game is comparable to Villanova playing without Sumpter (their only talented big man).
    No, I meant two unlikely things like UNC losing possession while up by 1 point with less than 10 seconds to go - I can't remember the last time that happened/maybe it happened recently/I just don't remember it - combined with Villanova actually hitting a winning shot.

    When Felton fouled out I think UNC was up by 8. Granted, they should have protected the lead better even without him, but I think they would have had he been in there.

    Anything can always happen but it would have taken a very unlikely confluence of events for Villanova to have actually won that game - it would have had to have been in overtime, if at all. If you feel that Villanova had their chance to win "taken away"...well okay, I don't agree with that, but even if I did, I think it's also fair to state that their chance was really small.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnftIKoaQ4w

    Carolina fans know they didnt deserve that one.
    I didn't get that impression at all from reading some of the comments.

    Out of curiousity, did The Play Caller ever weigh in on the end of the UNC/Villanova game in 2005? I've always found his commentary on this site to be extremely interesting but wasn't sure if he had started writing columns that far back.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA/Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    On a thread that declares Duke 2001 the "Team of the Decade," I have no idea why we are complaining about Carolina. As Coach K said during the post game ceremonies in Minneapolis in 2001 when a "GTHC" chant broke out in the upper deck, "Cut that out."

    Or, as the Kennedys said during the 1960 presidential campaign, "Don't get mad, get even." If Carolina won a championship or two, we should do the same.

    sagegrouse
    Well we're talking about the entire top 10 here. I think it's fair game to discuss the merits of anyone's championship. You just have to remember that a lot of pieces have to fall into place for ANY team to win one...

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia

    Clarification

    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnftIKoaQ4w

    Carolina fans know they didnt deserve that one.
    Thanks for the clip. After watching that a few times (something unfortunately the refs don't have the opportunity to do), I am not sure how you can agree with the call. I think the point has definitely been made that you need some things to go your way to win a championship.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by AnimalFriendly View Post
    No, I meant two unlikely things like UNC losing possession while up by 1 point with less than 10 seconds to go - I can't remember the last time that happened/maybe it happened recently/I just don't remember it - combined with Villanova actually hitting a winning shot.

    When Felton fouled out I think UNC was up by 8. Granted, they should have protected the lead better even without him, but I think they would have had he been in there.

    Anything can always happen but it would have taken a very unlikely confluence of events for Villanova to have actually won that game - it would have had to have been in overtime, if at all. If you feel that Villanova had their chance to win "taken away"...well okay, I don't agree with that, but even if I did, I think it's also fair to state that their chance was really small.
    They didn't need to lose possession. Villanova would have fouled (just like they did when they were down 4) and then UNC would have to hit free throws (which they didn't do). It's hard to argue that sequence of plays would have gone any differently. So at best you have Villanova with the ball down 2. They would have needed to hit a shot to win and Lowry actually did hit a pretty amazing shot on Villanova's next possession. Obviously this would be different as you'd play different defense if you're up 2 instead of 4.

    There's also the argument that if you do blow the whistle in that situation then 9 times out of 10 it is called a foul on the defense. It very likely wasn't a foul but it certainly wasn't a walk either. If you call the foul then it's a tie game and while UNC has the ball they are without Felton and if it goes to OT it has to be advantage to 'Nova.

    I just think you are underestimating the chance that 'Nova had in that game.

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