All things Dahntay...

[SupaDave]

I'm with the camp that Dahntay's trip is being blown a bit out of proportion. It should have been a foul if the refs had seen it, but I don't think it is even close to as dirty as an undercut or an elbow directed at the head. I don't think he should be suspended, but with the bar for suspension-worthy incidents being set very low in this year's playoffs (see Derek Fisher and Rafer Alston) it wouldn't surprise me to see him suspended.

All this hoopla made me think of an incident from one of the greatest playoff games ever during the Golden Age (early 80's) of the NBA. Check out Kevin McHale's clothesline of Kurt Rambis on a breakaway in Game 4 of the 1984 NBA finals. McHale was not suspended, ejected or even assessed a technical for that play. He simply got a personal. That illustrates a big difference in how the game is called now and then.

EDIT: ESPN's Marc Stein seems to think that Dahntay may not be suspended solely because of the trip but due to an accumulation of flagrant foul points if the trip is upgraded to a Flagrant 1 foul. He already has 2 flagrant foul points in the playoffs (a Flagrant 1 = 1 point and a Flagrant 2 = 2 points) and a total of 3 points warrants a one game suspension.

Excellent post.

In reality you could just post a clip up of Rick Mahorn's whole career and you would get the picture...

[SupaDave]

And there you have it!! George Karl says "we're not gonna tell Dahntay to stop playing"...

Supa "just might know this game a little bit" Dave...

[Acymetric]

For some reason I'm actually more excited about tomorrow's game than tonight's...possibly a combination of a bigger role (even if its a role some point don't like) for a Duke player and the fact that I like watching Kobe more than watching Lebron.

Plus, even though I'll be pulling for the Nuggets, I expect and look forward to a huge game from Kobe.

[mapei]

The fact that Dahntay is being compared to Rick Mahorn pretty much says it all. If that's what you like about basketball, we like very different things. The fact that the guy went to Duke for a couple of years doesn't change that.

I find the Nuggets (other than Billups) really, really hard to root for. And that goes for their coach, too. I hope one of the other three teams crushes them. If not the Lakers, then the next one in line.

[devilirium]

No dirty plays while at Duke? Ask Jason Clark. I think the Felton was kinda borderline--Dahntay wasn't looking and just wheeled around without much control. I think CP3 was a dirtier player------but I know for a fact that after the Felton episode that the episodes involving dirty play all but vanished. K had a talk with Jones about it, and he did a good job of leading Duke in the tourney. The pushups don't bother me as much, although he would've received a T for taunting these days for that.

[Owen Meany]

From Mark Stein ESPN

NBA upgrades trip to flagrant foul

Denver Nuggets guard Dahntay Jones is on the brink of a one-game suspension after the NBA upgraded his Game 4 trip of Kobe Bryant to a flagrant foul.

The foul -- deemed a flagrant foul 1 by league officials -- is Jones' third flagrant of the postseason and his second in the past two games in the Western Conference finals. That gives Jones three flagrant-foul points in the playoffs, with players receiving an automatic one-game ban when they exceed three points.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4207241

[SupaDave]

From Mark Stein ESPN

NBA upgrades trip to flagrant foul

Denver Nuggets guard Dahntay Jones is on the brink of a one-game suspension after the NBA upgraded his Game 4 trip of Kobe Bryant to a flagrant foul.

The foul -- deemed a flagrant foul 1 by league officials -- is Jones' third flagrant of the postseason and his second in the past two games in the Western Conference finals. That gives Jones three flagrant-foul points in the playoffs, with players receiving an automatic one-game ban when they exceed three points.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4207241

Sounds like KB24 is about to get busy...

[weezie]

you could just post a clip up of Rick Mahorn's whole career and you would get the picture...

Sweet Ricky Mahorn? The man knew how to wear those old short shorts, for sure. Pulling out the chair seems kind of quaint nowadays

[bjornolf]

I was listening to Colin Cowherd this morning, and he was saying that Dahntay Jones got a flagrant foul called for tripping Kobe, and he was lucky it wasn't more. He said it wasn't really "dirty" cause it didn't really endanger Kobe, but it was "cheap". He further said that the league may review the tape and suspend him, and that he's getting a reputation and had three flagrants in the playoffs. On First Take this morning, they showed Kobe saying he just thought it was good defense. I don't watch much NBA, so I'm asking the folks I go to for this, you guys. Has Dahntay become a cheap or dirty player in the NBA, or are these "experts" full of crap?

-Joe

[allenmurray]

Kobe seemed less concerned by it than any of the commentators. Remember, they get paid to talk - therefore there must be something to talk about.

[johaad]

I was listening to Colin Cowherd this morning, and he was saying that Dahntay Jones got a flagrant foul called for tripping Kobe, and he was lucky it wasn't more. He said it wasn't really "dirty" cause it didn't really endanger Kobe, but it was "cheap". He further said that the league may review the tape and suspend him, and that he's getting a reputation and had three flagrants in the playoffs. On First Take this morning, they showed Kobe saying he just thought it was good defense. I don't watch much NBA, so I'm asking the folks I go to for this, you guys. Has Dahntay become a cheap or dirty player in the NBA, or are these "experts" full of crap?

-Joe

The clip with Kobe saying it is good D, is more of a joke. Kobe was clearly biting his tongue. He knows how easy it is to get fined 25,000 by the NBA (Phil Jackson was fined that much for comments after the game). I still say that particular play was slightly dirty. I really believe that Dahntay was trying to stop Kobe by any means necessary. I don't think he wanted to trip him to hurt him, but more likely got caught up in the moment. I will say that many on this board have very different opinions on this play.

To sum up, I don't consider Dahntay a dirty player. I just think he made a mistake in one play. The other plays people point to are clearly not dirty or cheap, just intentional fouls. He is certainly not Bruce Bowen or Laimbeer-esque.

[SupaDave]

Thought I'd merge this threads...

[SupaDave]

The fact that Dahntay is being compared to Rick Mahorn pretty much says it all. If that's what you like about basketball, we like very different things. The fact that the guy went to Duke for a couple of years doesn't change that.

I find the Nuggets (other than Billups) really, really hard to root for. And that goes for their coach, too. I hope one of the other three teams crushes them. If not the Lakers, then the next one in line.

You mean 19 NBA seasons, one NBA championship, still employed by the NBA Rick Mahorn? Yeah - I'm sure there's nothing to like there if you like your basketball hands off.

And there's many things to like about the Nuggs - Dahntay's re-birth, Smith's growth, Carmelo's maturation, Birdman's reclamation, Kenyon Martin being injury free, NeNe's cancer story, and that's like the only guys that play! Maybe you have an aversion to tattoos or something...

[hq2]

I agree it's hard to like the Nuggets; too may 'toos and too thuggy. Nonetheless, I do admire their toughness, and Dahntay is definitely adding to that. He's actually lucky to be on a team where he doesn't have to score that much; he can just play D, run the floor and shoot layups and dunks. He can do that, anyway; doesn't have to rely too much on that (questionable) jumper.

[GoingFor#5]

I think the trip was more out of frustration than anything. He looked over, saw that Kobe had beat him and was making a beeline for the bucket so he tripped him without thinking about it. It wasn't so much intentional; just a split second reaction in a moment of basketball panic. If he was able to reach out and grab Kobe like players do all the time, nothing would have been said, but he was only in position to reach his foot out. A flagrant foul is fair, but I don't think he's dirty because of it.

[arnie]

You mean 19 NBA seasons, one NBA championship, still employed by the NBA Rick Mahorn? Yeah - I'm sure there's nothing to like there if you like your basketball hands off.

And there's many things to like about the Nuggs - Dahntay's re-birth, Smith's growth, Carmelo's maturation, Birdman's reclamation, Kenyon Martin being injury free, NeNe's cancer story, and that's like the only guys that play! Maybe you have an aversion to tattoos or something...

Thug coach coaching thug players (tatoos are irrelevant to this). However, I kind of enjoy it - particularly with King Jackson as the opposition. Just wish John Roche had kicked Karl a little harder.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

Flagrant 1, Flagrant 2, technical, accumulation of technical fouls, accumulation of flagrants...this reminds me of the National State of Emergency--what do those colors mean again?

I think Dahntay did wrong. Period. If I were the commish I would have suspended him because I don't like that style of play. However, people seem to like it. So, we have this system setup to make sure that nobody gets too out of hand, but it seems too arbitrary to me. Fouls are changed in severity, technicals are taken away, etc.

Let the refs, ref I guess. When does the NCAA season start again?

GO DUKE!

[DukieBoy]

Hi,

Flagrant 1, Flagrant 2, technical, accumulation of technical fouls, accumulation of flagrants...this reminds me of the National State of Emergency--what do those colors mean again?

I think Dahntay did wrong. Period. If I were the commish I would have suspended him because I don't like that style of play. However, people seem to like it. So, we have this system setup to make sure that nobody gets too out of hand, but it seems too arbitrary to me. Fouls are changed in severity, technicals are taken away, etc.

Let the refs, ref I guess. When does the NCAA season start again?

GO DUKE!

Absolutely agreed. I'm both a big Lakers and Duke fan. However, I was irate when I saw this. I hate dirty players, and that was a flat out intentional trip.

[SupaDave]

Absolutely agreed. I'm both a big Lakers and Duke fan. However, I was irate when I saw this. I hate dirty players, and that was a flat out intentional trip.

I think the article on the front page is a great. In the last couple of paragraphs you also get to see Dahntay's point of view on it all.

[Newton_14]

I just think Dahntay is playing hard D. Defense is what got him back into the league and a big reason why the Nuggets are where they are. The trip was not that big of a deal to me. Like others said, it is commonplace in the NBA to reach out and grab a guy when beat to prevent an easy basket. It was an intentional foul, nothing more, nothing less, and it certainly was not an attempt to hurt anyone.

His role in this series is to get into Kobe's grill and harass the heck out of him. I think the whole thing is being overblown. This is nothing compared to the 80's brand of NBA Playoff basketball, when driving to the basket meant risking getting your head knocked off (just ask Rambis).

I do not like Karl but I am pulling for the Nuggets and hope to see a Magic/Nuggets Finals which will insure a Duke player getting a Championship..