All things Dahntay...

[Jim3k]

Denver won by 19; Jones's play must have been worth it. He only got called for 2 personals. Bryant only hit 2 of 10 3pt attempts.

[Lightz]

Here was tonight's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QuSZqvwpxk

[Kewlswim]

he's also being called out on TWO very "un-sportsmanlike" (dirty) plays. Pushing Kobe in the back and then deliberately tripping kobe were dirty plays. I love DJ, but man, he's gotta know that is just un-cool...

he doesn't need to do that crap...

I love Dahntay (as I do other Duke graduates), but he should be suspended a game for tripping Kobe. That was bush league at best. I don't think for a second he didn't know what he was doing.

Jones knock it off!! You are talented, use your talent. :-(

GO DUKE!!

[mcdukie]

Very surprised at Dahntay for tripping Kobe. He needs to man up on that one and admit he got caught up so that he doesn't look any worse.

[weezie]

Yeah, the pushing wasn't hard or fierce, kind of like Dahntay realized he would be tossed and slightly pulled back on it...plus Nene seemed to hold Kobe from really being damaged, but the tripping was bad, bad. D Jones did not learn that at Duke.

[Billy Dat]

If Dahntay ever admitted that he tripped Kobe on purpose, he might be looking at a suspension so he should keep his mouth shut.

That being said, I found both the push and the trip to be ridiculously bush league and agree with the sentiments of others that he doesn't need to resort to that cheap garbage. He's playing very well otherwise, he doesn't need to do that kind of stuff.

[SupaDave]

Some of you need to look at the overall picture. I don't necessarily think that Dahntay WANTED to trip up Kobe but there has been an edict to stop Kobe at all costs direct from the coaching staff.

Not to mention it appears that the entire Nuggets team is playing with that same chippy attitude as evidenced by K-Mart trying to break Gasol's arm last night.

Honestly the games have a huge amount of football energy to them. Kobe has already had to get an IV and I'm not sure how many of you have ever tried posting people up and then running the length of the court but it's about as tiring as you can get.

What I saw was a DB getting beat on a pass and trying to trip the WR - which is illegal in football too but is also a measure of the desperation at which Dahntay is putting his defense on the line.

I doubt he will get in any trouble with the organization and based on that towel over his head he knows that he lost it for a minute there.

[johaad]

I stepped away from the game when this happened. The only video I can find of it is very blurry. To me, it looks like he MAY just have been trying to catch up to Kobe and then Kobe hit his shoe. I can't say for sure yet though because of the extreme blurryness of the video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I just saw an HD video of it. I now unfortunately believe it was dirty. I just hope it was a "heat of the moment" type of thing. Here is the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6BWYMjTs3c

[Owen Meany]

Very surprised at Dahntay for tripping Kobe.

Unfortunately, I am not surprised. Although I never saw it mentioned on DBR before, Jones actually created some controversy earlier this year for tripping a Suns player who had crossed him over and passed him on his way to a game winning shot. The Suns players were angry after the game (the refs missed the call). Terry Porter stated that "Jones had tripped guys three or four times prior to that play. ... our referees are some of the best in the world, they should know guys' tendencies and what they do." The Suns sent video to the league office. The player who was tripped commented that "that's how he (Jones) plays. Oh yeah, the player in question was Grant Hill. And Phoenix isn't the only team with a problem with Jones either, FWIW.


I agree with Hill - that is how Jones plays. He is chippy and always in danger of "crossing the line". He often did things that made me cringe as a Duke fan - such as the push ups over the fallen Virgina player that some fans seem to remember fondly. I was always surprised that Coach K allowed some of Jone's behavior. Its a shame because he was a really good player and seemed very well-spoken and likable off the court. But I was always afraid that he was going to do something that would turn really bad and that it would amp up the "Duke hate" even more. I wish him luck and am glad he's found his niche in the NBA - but I hope he gets called out for this and any other dirty play he commits, just as I do for any other player.

[johaad]

Unfortunately, I am not surprised. Although I never saw it mentioned on DBR before, Jones actually created some controversy earlier this year for tripping a Suns player who had crossed him over and passed him on his way to a game winning shot. The Suns players were angry after the game (the refs missed the call). Terry Porter stated that "Jones had tripped guys three or four times prior to that play. ... our referees are some of the best in the world, they should know guys' tendencies and what they do." The Suns sent video to the league office. The player who was tripped commented that "that's how he (Jones) plays. Oh yeah, the player in question was Grant Hill. And Phoenix isn't the only team with a problem with Jones either, FWIW.


I agree with Hill - that is how Jones plays. He is chippy and always in danger of "crossing the line". He often did things that made me cringe as a Duke fan - such as the push ups over the fallen Virgina player that some fans seem to remember fondly. I was always surprised that Coach K allowed some of Jone's behavior. Its a shame because he was a really good player and seemed very well-spoken and likable off the court. But I was always afraid that he was going to do something that would turn really bad and that it would amp up the "Duke hate" even more. I wish him luck and am glad he's found his niche in the NBA - but I hope he gets called out for this and any other dirty play he commits, just as I do for any other player.

I'm not saying that you are fabricating this story but I can only say what I have found. I have not seen anywhere that Hill says "this is how he plays" or something like that. I do know the play you speak of. That to me, was not a dirty play. It was more of a "wrong place wrong time" type of thing. Here is a link to that video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-zxh...layer_embedded

[Owen Meany]

I'm not saying that you are fabricating this story but I can only say what I have found. I have not seen anywhere that Hill says "this is how he plays" or something like that. I do know the play you speak of. That to me, was not a dirty play. It was more of a "wrong place wrong time" type of thing. Here is a link to that video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-zxh...layer_embedded

The play worked. Forward Grant Hill had Denver's Dahntay Jones isolated and put a crossover dribble on him that turned him around as Hill passed him. The NBA office will see that, too, because the Suns are sending league video to point out what happened next. Jones stuck his right foot in front of Hill's left foot, tripping him. Suns coach Terry Porter said Jones had done it at other times in the game.

"That's how he plays," Hill said of Jones.

Hill got a shot off as he banged into Nuggets center Nene, but it had no chance once he fell, leaving the score tied and leading to Phoenix's 119-113 overtime loss.

"They blew the call," said Hill, who had a season-high 25 points and added eight rebounds. "I got fouled. I got tripped. And I got hit by Nene. The trip was pretty obvious. You'd think one of the officials out there would have the angle. I know not everyone can see the play, but there were three seconds left. It was tough, hard-fought game and you put yourself in position to win. I have the ball and got a chance to get to the basket, and I get tripped. It's not like I'm going to just fall."

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/messages/chrono/13026558



This is from an article that defends the refs for not making the call
"The play in question happens about 25 seconds into this clip, where you can see Dahntay Jones subtly use his right leg to knock Hill off balance once he leaves his feet to take the shot attempt.

Looking at the replay (multiple times), Jones absolutely stuck that right leg out and sort of upended Hill as he went to the basket. And sure, as Hill said, there was contact from Nene once he was in the air. But should he have gotten the call?"



I appreciate the video, but the quality is so poor that I am unable to see Jones leg with any clarity. What I do see is Hill clearly beating Jones with the crossover, heading for the rim, Jones sliding up beside Hill, then Hill falling for no apparent reason. I also see Jones pulling his arms down to his sides - classic Jones "I didn't do anything" gesture that I saw many times while he was at Duke.


For me, its pretty simple - this fits Jones M.O. (or his tendencies, as Porter put it), so he has lost the benefit of the doubt. Hill, on the other hand, is not one to make baseless claims and call out people for being dirty (which he did with his "that's how he plays" comment). I will trust Hill on this one. And the other comments I read that Jones tripped Hill, presumably from others who saw tv footage, which is much clearer than youtube footage. The comments from Hill and Porter weren't brief, throw away comments either. Porter stated that Jones had done it several times in that game and that he was sending footage to the league (I realize nothing was done - as Porter said "They'll review it, but I don't know that in the history of the NBA they've ever taken a call back,").


I could be mistaken. Its possible he was unfairly accused of tripping Hill. If so, its an incredible coincidence that he got caught blatantly doing the exact same thing yesterday against Kobe. To me. the only thing out of character for Jones was that he was so blatant with this trip. As with any player, he obviously tries to be subtle with his chippy behavior - then its harder to pin him down for plays like those on the Suns game. But I think it fits a pattern of behavior that I first saw at Duke - which I hate to admit. I have fond memories of his time at Duke (like when he came a fraction of a second from a Jeff Capel-like half court heave of either tieing or beating unc at the Dean Dome). But I felt his sportsmanship left a lot to be desired. If he were not a Duke player I feel that he would be one of the more disliked players on this board, and not because of how good he is.

[johaad]

I appreciate you finding that quote. I completely understand where you are coming from but I still have to disagree. To me, DJ isn't dirty. He is a tough defender. I do believe that last night's kobe trip was a dirty play. I do not (from what I can see in the blurry video and my recollection) believe the Suns play was dirty. But just because a player has one dirty play, doesn't mean he is a dirty player. I don't recall any dirty plays at Duke. I know some point to the push ups after the dunk. In my mind, that was (and is) Dahntay's swagger. He is a somewhat cocky player (not overly cocky though). He is probably the least cocky player on the Nuggets. I will never believe that the Grant Hill play was intentional. Now, the Kobe play, I think is him getting caught up in the moment and trying to intentionally stop Kobe. I think it was a mistake and somewhat dirty, but not one that is worth us comparing him to the NBA's dirty players (ex: Laimbeer, Bowen, etc.)

[SupaDave]

When it comes to the NBA's tough defenders - Dahntay is pretty average. There is grabbing, pulling, and pushing the entire game...

[johaad]

When it comes to the NBA's tough defenders - Dahntay is pretty average. There is grabbing, pulling, and pushing the entire game...

Sure, he's no Shane Battier, but he does hold his own. And he seems to do a good job of getting in people's heads.

[ojaidave]

The play worked. Forward Grant Hill had Denver's Dahntay Jones isolated and put a crossover dribble on him that turned him around as Hill passed him. The NBA office will see that, too, because the Suns are sending league video to point out what happened next. Jones stuck his right foot in front of Hill's left foot, tripping him. Suns coach Terry Porter said Jones had done it at other times in the game.

"That's how he plays," Hill said of Jones.

Hill got a shot off as he banged into Nuggets center Nene, but it had no chance once he fell, leaving the score tied and leading to Phoenix's 119-113 overtime loss.

"They blew the call," said Hill, who had a season-high 25 points and added eight rebounds. "I got fouled. I got tripped. And I got hit by Nene. The trip was pretty obvious. You'd think one of the officials out there would have the angle. I know not everyone can see the play, but there were three seconds left. It was tough, hard-fought game and you put yourself in position to win. I have the ball and got a chance to get to the basket, and I get tripped. It's not like I'm going to just fall."

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/messages/chrono/13026558



This is from an article that defends the refs for not making the call
"The play in question happens about 25 seconds into this clip, where you can see Dahntay Jones subtly use his right leg to knock Hill off balance once he leaves his feet to take the shot attempt.

Looking at the replay (multiple times), Jones absolutely stuck that right leg out and sort of upended Hill as he went to the basket. And sure, as Hill said, there was contact from Nene once he was in the air. But should he have gotten the call?"



I appreciate the video, but the quality is so poor that I am unable to see Jones leg with any clarity. What I do see is Hill clearly beating Jones with the crossover, heading for the rim, Jones sliding up beside Hill, then Hill falling for no apparent reason. I also see Jones pulling his arms down to his sides - classic Jones "I didn't do anything" gesture that I saw many times while he was at Duke.


For me, its pretty simple - this fits Jones M.O. (or his tendencies, as Porter put it), so he has lost the benefit of the doubt. Hill, on the other hand, is not one to make baseless claims and call out people for being dirty (which he did with his "that's how he plays" comment). I will trust Hill on this one. And the other comments I read that Jones tripped Hill, presumably from others who saw tv footage, which is much clearer than youtube footage. The comments from Hill and Porter weren't brief, throw away comments either. Porter stated that Jones had done it several times in that game and that he was sending footage to the league (I realize nothing was done - as Porter said "They'll review it, but I don't know that in the history of the NBA they've ever taken a call back,").


I could be mistaken. Its possible he was unfairly accused of tripping Hill. If so, its an incredible coincidence that he got caught blatantly doing the exact same thing yesterday against Kobe. To me. the only thing out of character for Jones was that he was so blatant with this trip. As with any player, he obviously tries to be subtle with his chippy behavior - then its harder to pin him down for plays like those on the Suns game. But I think it fits a pattern of behavior that I first saw at Duke - which I hate to admit. I have fond memories of his time at Duke (like when he came a fraction of a second from a Jeff Capel-like half court heave of either tieing or beating unc at the Dean Dome). But I felt his sportsmanship left a lot to be desired. If he were not a Duke player I feel that he would be one of the more disliked players on this board, and not because of how good he is.

Well stated, I agree with this. To say that Jones was just following orders or that this occurred in heat of the moment - both of which could be absolutely true- ignores the real possibility that Jones could have injured Kobe. This isn't a typical post season hard foul. Tripping, in my opinion, is similar to undercutting or pushing a player when they are in the air. You are intentionally taking their feet out from under them and forcing an uncontrolled impact with the court. While hurting Kobe likely wasn't Jones' intent, it is a foreseeable consequence. Dahntay should sit the next game out, and if were to happen again (in a manner as obviously intentional as this was), he should be suspend for a much longer duration. It is in the league's best interest to try and prevent players from getting tossed around the court, regardless of the particular game's importance.

[SilkyJ]

I'm with supadave mostly on this one and I think a lot of people are overreacting to this tripping incident. Tripping someone is a last resort to stop them if you can't get your hands on them. Punching someone in the balls is dirty. Tripping them is a foul, its not dirty. And its not suspension worthy either. Thats ridiculous. If the refs want to call an intentional foul then fine. Its a foul and its intentional. But this is the playoffs folks and people are here to win so get used to seeing scrapping, clawing, tripping, fish hooking and eye-gouging.

You think Coach K doesn't tell our players in a physical game to use their elbows to make some space down low when boxing out? You think he doesn't teach Jon to give who ever he is chasing's jersey a nice tug to slow him down a fraction of a second as he goes around a screen? Those things aren't legal, but they are things you learn when you are a kid: the little things to help your team win. I can't remember the last time I marked someone in soccer and didn't have a fistful of jersey in my hands at all time. Now the tripping is more blatant, but you're here to win and its not like he's trying to hurt the guy, just keep him from scoring.

When I played sweeper in soccer and some guy was on a breakaway and had me beat, you can bet your I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. I was taking him down before he got to the box. Period. Better to get a yellowcard than give up a goal...

Or maybe as I heard Brett Hull say one time: if you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin.

I love Dahntay (as I do other Duke graduates), but he should be suspended a game for tripping Kobe.

[SupaDave]

Somewhere - the "Kobe Stopper" is wondering why he never thought of tripping the man formerly known as "KB8"...

[FerryFor50]

Personally, I'm all for anything that prevents Kobe from going to the finals.

[FerryFor50]

On a side note, I think it's hilarious that Phil Jackson is complaining about dirty tactics against one of the dirtiest players in the league.

Doesn't anyone believe in tit for tat anymore?

[tbyers11]

I'm with supadave mostly on this one and I think a lot of people are overreacting to this tripping incident. Tripping someone is a last resort to stop them if you can't get your hands on them. Punching someone in the balls is dirty. Tripping them is a foul, its not dirty. And its not suspension worthy either. Thats ridiculous. If the refs want to call an intentional foul then fine. Its a foul and its intentional. But this is the playoffs folks and people are here to win so get used to seeing scrapping, clawing, tripping, fish hooking and eye-gouging.

I'm with the camp that Dahntay's trip is being blown a bit out of proportion. It should have been a foul if the refs had seen it, but I don't think it is even close to as dirty as an undercut or an elbow directed at the head. I don't think he should be suspended, but with the bar for suspension-worthy incidents being set very low in this year's playoffs (see Derek Fisher and Rafer Alston) it wouldn't surprise me to see him suspended.

All this hoopla made me think of an incident from one of the greatest playoff games ever during the Golden Age (early 80's) of the NBA. Check out Kevin McHale's clothesline of Kurt Rambis on a breakaway in Game 4 of the 1984 NBA finals. McHale was not suspended, ejected or even assessed a technical for that play. He simply got a personal. That illustrates a big difference in how the game is called now and then.

EDIT: ESPN's Marc Stein seems to think that Dahntay may not be suspended solely because of the trip but due to an accumulation of flagrant foul points if the trip is upgraded to a Flagrant 1 foul. He already has 2 flagrant foul points in the playoffs (a Flagrant 1 = 1 point and a Flagrant 2 = 2 points) and a total of 3 points warrants a one game suspension.