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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis

    Future US Open, British Open, and PGA sites

    As long as we're talking about golf, it's always interesting to me to see where the rotating majors will be staged. This is all from Wiki.

    United States Open
    2009 - Bethpage Black
    2010 - Pebble
    2011 - Congressional
    2012 - Olympic
    2013 - Merion East
    2014 - Pinehurst #2
    2015 - Chambers Bay (a links course near Tacoma)

    I'm not familiar with the last course. It's good to see the US Open back in North Carolina in 2014. I'm not a fan of Congressional, a course I find dull. I think Ernie Els won last time it was there. Olympic is pretty but IIRC, the 1998 Open with Lee Janzen and Payne Stewart (that's right, Tigerbots, other people have actually won majors) was plagued by lousy, torn-up greens and punitive pin placements. Though the latter is probably more the fault of the rather insane USGA. Bethpage Black and Pebble set up very well for Jesus T Woods. I like a links set-up, so Chambers Bay will be interesting.

    The [British] Open Championship
    2009 - Turnberry
    2010 - Saint Andrews
    2011 - St George
    2012 - Lytham & Anne

    My experience of the British Open is that the Scottish courses are pretty and the English ones ugly. Turnberry's my favorite of the lot. As usual, in 5-multiple years they go back to St Andrews, a course that sets up very well for Tiger and other long hitters becuase you can hit your errant drive all the way to the Faroe Islands and still recover for birdie. St George I associate with Greg Norman. Lytham & Anne is so vague in my recollection.

    PGA Championship
    2009 - Hazeltine
    2010 - Whistling Straits
    2011 - Atlanta Athletic Club
    2012 - Kiawah
    2013 - Oak Hill
    2014 - TBA
    2015 - Whistling Straits
    2016 - Baltusrol

    More of Payne Stewart's ghost, with a major returning to Hazeltine. I think they've chanced the setup of that course multiple times. Whistling Straits is really beautiful. Having the PGA in the American South in August seems kind of crazy to me, but I'm glad to see Kiawah in the rotation, the site of a great Ryder Cup. Baltusrol and Oak Hill are old northeastern deciduous-tree standbys of great quality. I don't know what's up with 2014. I'd like to see Valhalla get back in there.

    I'm glad to see Oakmont out of the US/PGA rotation. They destroyed that course by mowing down all the trees.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  2. #2
    You forgot to tell us where the future sites Master's will be.
    ~rthomas

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Quote Originally Posted by rthomas View Post
    You forgot to tell us where the future sites Master's will be.
    Ya know, there are some people who will think that's a serious question. For their benefit, here is the site list for the next 5 years

    2010 Augusta National
    2011 Augusta National
    2012 Augusta National
    2013 Augusta National
    2014 Augusta National

    Chances are, the trend will continue for several years after that, too
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lompoc, West Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    Ya know, there are some people who will think that's a serious question. For their benefit, here is the site list for the next 5 years

    2010 Augusta National
    2011 Augusta National
    2012 Augusta National
    2013 Augusta National
    2014 Augusta National

    Chances are, the trend will continue for several years after that, too
    Sort'a like the weather forecast in Honolulu, only more guaranteed.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Brookline, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    As long as we're talking about golf, it's always interesting to me to see where the rotating majors will be staged. This is all from Wiki.

    United States Open
    2009 - Bethpage Black
    2010 - Pebble
    2011 - Congressional
    2012 - Olympic
    2013 - Merion East
    2014 - Pinehurst #2
    2015 - Chambers Bay (a links course near Tacoma)

    I'm not familiar with the last course. It's good to see the US Open back in North Carolina in 2014. I'm not a fan of Congressional, a course I find dull. I think Ernie Els won last time it was there. Olympic is pretty but IIRC, the 1998 Open with Lee Janzen and Payne Stewart (that's right, Tigerbots, other people have actually won majors) was plagued by lousy, torn-up greens and punitive pin placements. Though the latter is probably more the fault of the rather insane USGA. Bethpage Black and Pebble set up very well for Jesus T Woods. I like a links set-up, so Chambers Bay will be interesting.

    The [British] Open Championship
    2009 - Turnberry
    2010 - Saint Andrews
    2011 - St George
    2012 - Lytham & Anne

    My experience of the British Open is that the Scottish courses are pretty and the English ones ugly. Turnberry's my favorite of the lot. As usual, in 5-multiple years they go back to St Andrews, a course that sets up very well for Tiger and other long hitters becuase you can hit your errant drive all the way to the Faroe Islands and still recover for birdie. St George I associate with Greg Norman. Lytham & Anne is so vague in my recollection.

    PGA Championship
    2009 - Hazeltine
    2010 - Whistling Straits
    2011 - Atlanta Athletic Club
    2012 - Kiawah
    2013 - Oak Hill
    2014 - TBA
    2015 - Whistling Straits
    2016 - Baltusrol

    More of Payne Stewart's ghost, with a major returning to Hazeltine. I think they've chanced the setup of that course multiple times. Whistling Straits is really beautiful. Having the PGA in the American South in August seems kind of crazy to me, but I'm glad to see Kiawah in the rotation, the site of a great Ryder Cup. Baltusrol and Oak Hill are old northeastern deciduous-tree standbys of great quality. I don't know what's up with 2014. I'd like to see Valhalla get back in there.

    I'm glad to see Oakmont out of the US/PGA rotation. They destroyed that course by mowing down all the trees.
    I'll add a few things to what throaty said about all of this. The main reason that you're not familiar with Chambers Bay is because it was just built a couple of years ago. For such a new course to be awarded a US Open is almost unheard of, but the course has gotten awesome reviews. The US Amateur is going there in 2010 as a warmup for the US Open in 2015. Congressional won't be as interesting as in the past because the AT&T National, a regular tour stop, has been played there in the past couple of years. Merion in 2013 will be REALLY interesting because that course was thought to be too short for modern technology, but it held up during the US Amateur recently. Olympic doesn't excite me, but the USGA will be happy because they can put the final rounds in primetime like last year at Torrey Pines. Finally, they took out all of the trees at Oakmont because when the course was first constructed, it didn't have any trees; put me in the group that actually likes the trees gone.

    Turnberry should be great for the Open Championship this year, hopefully there can be a duel like Watson and Nicklaus in 77. St. Andrews needs no discussion, if Tiger doesn't win there again I'll be shocked. Ben Curtis won at Royal St. George's in 2003, and I remember it being a little quirky in terms of the bumps and hollows in the fairways.

    I actually like the PGA because I think the course setup is always pretty good, though the USGA is getting better in the past few years. Going to Kiawah in 2012 is going to be awesome, I absolutely love the Ocean Course. Whistling Straits was interesting in 2004 with Vijay Singh winning a playoff. Rich Beem beat Tiger in 2002 at Hazeltine in the PGA, and word is that they've stretched that course out to a ridiculous length for the tournament this year. Having the PGA in the South won't be as big of a deal at Kiawah because the ocean breeze will be present, but going back to Atlanta will be awful in terms of the heat; all I remember about the PGA in 2001 at that course was David Toms' hole-in-one at 15 in the 3rd round and laying up on 18, then hitting the par putt to win.

    One last thought on the Masters today: someone will shoot 64 or 65, because I'm pretty sure that the Masters committee have set up the pins in favorable locations for birdies, especially on the back nine. Also look at where the tees are set up, wouldn't be surprised to see most of the tees at the front of the tee boxes.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by arydolphin View Post
    Finally, they took out all of the trees at Oakmont because when the course was first constructed, it didn't have any trees; put me in the group that actually likes the trees gone.
    Huh, I learn something. I associate Oakmont with the 1994 Els/Monty/Roberts Open--I'm just barely not old enough to remember the Larry Nelson win there.

    Quote Originally Posted by arydolphin View Post
    I actually like the PGA because I think the course setup is always pretty good, though the USGA is getting better in the past few years.
    I like the PGA better than the Open for just that reason. I remember something somebody in Golf Digest in the 80s saying something like "the PGA is sort of like if the US Open weren't set up by sadists." The Open tends to be a lot of tricked-up gimmicks--not mowing for three weeks, volcanic putt-putt style pin placements, calling par 5s par 4s. Torrey was less insane. I hope the trend you note continues.

    This special on Seve reminds me of something; I miss Ben Wright.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  7. #7
    My parents' retirement home is on Kiawah, so I'm going to make an effort to attend that one.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    Huh, I learn something. I associate Oakmont with the 1994 Els/Monty/Roberts Open--I'm just barely not old enough to remember the Larry Nelson win there.
    Yet another one of those generational things.

    I associate Oakmont with Johnny Miller and the 63.

    That round, more than anything else, is probably responsible for the impossibly hard US Opens courses of today.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Summit County, Colo.
    Much of the golf world first associates Oakmont with the Nicklaus/Palmer duel in '62.

    Oakmont is somewhat of a home course to me. I played it a few times as a teenager. Don't ask me what I shot.

    I attended most of the 1983, 1994 and 2007 Opens there, including the impromptu Monday round in '83 and the playoff in '94. They did a wonderful job with the last changes -- not only the tree removal, but lengthening a few holes and moving some bunkers around and such. I think the tree removal served to make Oakmont's unique characteristics stand out even more.

    Miller's 63 buffered Oakmont's reputation, if anything. Since it happened Oakmont has hosted a PGA AND a Women's Open AND an Amateur, in addition to the three U.S. Opens. And these weren't all played under the same setup. (I want to say Mahaffey's winning score in the '78 PGA was -9 or so; I know Tom Watson got into double digits under. Els was -7 after three rounds of the '94 Open.)

    What people seem to miss is that NO golf course is static. Since the game's invention courses have changed due to changes in equipment, playing habits, irrigation and maintenance techniques, economic conditions and popularity. St. Andrews was lengthened a few years back -- does this taint the course? Some part of Augusta gets tinkered with virtually every year, yet because it's on teevee every year people seem to associate it with stability.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    Olympic is pretty but IIRC, the 1998 Open with Lee Janzen and Payne Stewart (that's right, Tigerbots, other people have actually won majors) was plagued by lousy, torn-up greens and punitive pin placements. Though the latter is probably more the fault of the rather insane USGA.
    So...I don't know much of the history of the golf past the last 6-8 years as thats when I started following it. However I am from San Francisco and am a member of the Olympic Club (the club which will be hosting the open). The course is a gorgeous course and a challenging one. IIRC the Olympic Club is closing the course to prepare and make sure it is in good shape when it comes time to host the open. They are also working on lengthening it (I believe).

    So basically it will be a tournament and I really look forward to it.

    I also look forward to the different venues for the Masters

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Summit County, Colo.
    Back to the original topic... it's funny how the USGA and PGA have settled on mutually exclusive rotations. For much of the 60s and 70s, into the early 80s, they seemed to share courses, then for a couple decades they each tried some new faces. Think Pinehurst for the USGA, and Valhalla for the PGA. Now it seems like we have U.S. Open courses and PGA courses. And you know the USGA will be going back to Winged Foot, Shinnecock and Oakmont, so this isn't about to change anytime soon.

    One unexpected upshot is that Baltusrol has turned into a PGA course, after being a USGA standby for so long.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    updated:

    Masters - take a guess

    The gimmicky tricked-up rough Open

    2013 - Merion
    2014 - Pinehurst 2
    2015 - Chambers Bay
    2016 - Oakmont
    2017 - Erin Hills
    2018 - Shinnecock
    2019 - Pebble

    I'd make an obvious joke about the 2017 venue, but the other mods might object. Like Chambers Bay, it's a new venue for the US Open. Erin has hosted the Women's Publinks and Women's Amateur. I'm glad to see Shinnecock back. I love Pittsburgh, but I still insist Oakmont is a snorefest.

    The Real Open

    2012 - Lytham & Anne's
    2013 - Muirfield
    2014 - Hoylake
    2015 - St Andrews

    This tournament should be permanently situated in Scotland, and maybe Northern Ireland. Lytham & Anne's should be up there in the list of most boring major venues. Let's have the PGA at Hillandale. Not.

    The PGA Championship

    2012 - Kiawah
    2013 - Oak Hill
    2014 - Valhalla
    2015 - Whistling Straits
    2016 - Baltusrol
    2017 - Quail Hollow
    2018 - Bellerive

    Nice to see Whistling Straits again--that was gorgeous. Quail Hollow is nice--first time there. Good to get it back in, well, not Saint Louis, Town and Country. 2013 Senior open will be there. I still remember Payne Stewart's "leaf putt" in, what was it, 1992?

    Interesting to see that the US Open is getting as experimental as the PGA.
    Last edited by throatybeard; 06-07-2012 at 10:25 PM.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Summit County, Colo.
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    I still insist Oakmont is a snorefest.
    So much for expressing opinions other mods find non-objectionable :|

    My idea of a snorefest is everyone sticking it to 10 feet on every hole. Like Medinah in the PGA a few years back. Or where the pros never take out their driver. Which didn't at all describe Oakmont in 2007, but may apply to Merion next year, and was a criticism that has been directed at Olympic in Opens past.

  14. #14

    Northern Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    updated:

    Masters - take a guess

    The gimmicky tricked-up rough Open

    2013 - Merion
    2014 - Pinehurst 2
    2015 - Chambers Bay
    2016 - Oakmont
    2017 - Erin Hills
    2018 - Shinnecock
    2019 - Pebble

    I'd make an obvious joke about the 2017 venue, but the other mods might object. Like Chambers Bay, it's a new venue for the US Open. Erin has hosted the Women's Publinks and Women's Amateur. I'm glad to see Shinnecock back. I love Pittsburgh, but I still insist Oakmont is a snorefest.

    The Real Open

    2012 - Lytham & Anne's
    2013 - Muirfield
    2014 - Hoylake
    2015 - St Andrews

    This tournament should be permanently situated in Scotland, and maybe Northern Ireland. Lytham & Anne's should be up there in the list of most boring major venues. Let's have the PGA at Hillandale. Not.

    The PGA Championship

    2012 - Kiawah
    2013 - Oak Hill
    2014 - Valhalla
    2015 - Whistling Straits
    2016 - Baltusrol
    2017 - Quail Hollow
    2018 - Bellerive

    Nice to see Whistling Straits again--that was gorgeous. Quail Hollow is nice--first time there. Good to get it back in, well, not Saint Louis, Town and Country. 2013 Senior open will be there. I still remember Payne Stewart's "leaf putt" in, what was it, 1992?

    Interesting to see that the US Open is getting as experimental as the PGA.

    My Dukie sons and I went to Northern Ireland a couple of years ago and loved it. As I recall, Royal Portrush on the Antram Coast is the only place in NI where the British has ever been played and there only once. It is a magnificent course as are many others in NI. Can't understand why they don't return for an Open. I agree with you re the snore qualities of some of the recurring venues.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis

    Bellerive

    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    updated:

    Masters - take a guess

    The gimmicky tricked-up rough Open

    2013 - Merion
    2014 - Pinehurst 2
    2015 - Chambers Bay
    2016 - Oakmont
    2017 - Erin Hills
    2018 - Shinnecock
    2019 - Pebble

    I'd make an obvious joke about the 2017 venue, but the other mods might object. Like Chambers Bay, it's a new venue for the US Open. Erin has hosted the Women's Publinks and Women's Amateur. I'm glad to see Shinnecock back. I love Pittsburgh, but I still insist Oakmont is a snorefest.

    The Real Open

    2012 - Lytham & Anne's
    2013 - Muirfield
    2014 - Hoylake
    2015 - St Andrews

    This tournament should be permanently situated in Scotland, and maybe Northern Ireland. Lytham & Anne's should be up there in the list of most boring major venues. Let's have the PGA at Hillandale. Not.

    The PGA Championship

    2012 - Kiawah
    2013 - Oak Hill
    2014 - Valhalla
    2015 - Whistling Straits
    2016 - Baltusrol
    2017 - Quail Hollow
    2018 - Bellerive

    Nice to see Whistling Straits again--that was gorgeous. Quail Hollow is nice--first time there. Good to get it back in, well, not Saint Louis, Town and Country. 2013 Senior open will be there. I still remember Payne Stewart's "leaf putt" in, what was it, 1992?

    Interesting to see that the US Open is getting as experimental as the PGA.
    Mrs. Rasputin and I were at the '92 PGA at Bellerive. Other than the fact that the weather was perfect (not our usual heat and humidity for August in St. Louis), the thing that sticks out in my memory was watching Tom Watson, Payne Stewart, and Jose-Maria Olazabal. It was packed because the first two are from Missouri, altho' I was there to see the Spaniard. Anyway, Stewart hit an errant shot near a woman who was sitting under a tree, and the ball wound up climbing up her shorts (she was sitting on the ground). He did not have to play it where it was.

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