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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC

    Scheyer's Free Throw Routine

    Sorry if this has been discussed in another thread. I read the boards almost daily and haven't seen a mention of it. Anyway...has anyone else noticed that Scheyer's FT "routine" is not a routine at all? Jon is inconsistent in the way he approaches FT's. When he follows through on his shot - e.g. hands "hanging" for a second or so after the release, he shoots about 90%. But...when he shoots it quick - flicks his wrist and drops his hands suddenly, he's shooting maybe around 50%. I've noticed this a lot in games in the last 3rd of the season. Probably because Jon has been going to the line more often lately.

    The weird thing is, he'll sometimes change up what he's doing at the line from the 1st to the 2nd attempt on a two-shot foul. It's odd and I would think a seasoned, smart player like Scheyer would have a more established routine that he'd follow. I always thought that was one of the reasons JJ was so good - he did the exact same thing at the line each time he shot a FT. When he went to the line for his final attempt tonight against BC, I was screaming at the TV, "Follow THROUGH! Don't just flick it up there!". Of course he flicked it and missed. He actually makes a lot of those even with poor form which I guess just goes to show what a good shooter he is.

    Anyway...I hope the coaching staff is working with Jon on establishing and following a good routine for his FT's - he could be JJ deadly for us at the end of games.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Van Nuys, CA
    I don't think he is a great shooter,but this year's team relies on him heavily to score and run the offense. He definitely is not money or he would not have missed that front end of the 1 and 1,

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by heyman25 View Post
    I don't think he is a great shooter,but this year's team relies on him heavily to score and run the offense. He definitely is not money or he would not have missed that front end of the 1 and 1,
    I disagree. I think he is money. There is no other person on the team that I'd want on the line shooting free throws during end of game situations. He happened to miss it tonight, but it was a very rare occurrence. Scheyer shoots 85.7 % from the line - I believe that is the top 10 in ACC history. If Scheyer's free throws are our biggest concern, then we're in good shape!

    I also recall him hitting some clutch free throws in the past. Again, didn't happen tonight, but that was a HUGE anomaly. I want him on the line when the game is on the line more than any other player on our team - no question in my mind.

  4. #4
    Isn't he like the 2nd highest ft percent shooter in duke history or something?

    Jon has been missing end of game fts lately. especially after the lineup change. I think it has something to do with the (almost) 40 minutes of running the team. He's probably gassed.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Also, you're mixing up correlation and cause. Maybe he puts his hand down after making the shot because he knows it didn't feel good leaving his hands, while he leaves his hand up in anticipation of the ball going in. It's good to follow through, but there's no need to leave his hand up there once the ball is out of his hands.

  6. #6
    I think what happened with Scheyer's free throws against BC was more of a mental thing than anything else.

  7. #7
    Who knows if it his routine, mechanics or whatever, but his clutch ft shooting % is below his season % unfortunately. Doc

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by zingit View Post
    Also, you're mixing up correlation and cause. Maybe he puts his hand down after making the shot because he knows it didn't feel good leaving his hands, while he leaves his hand up in anticipation of the ball going in. It's good to follow through, but there's no need to leave his hand up there once the ball is out of his hands.
    With all due respect, I really don't think I'm "mixed up" about this. Haven't you ever heard about how great shooters "hang their hands" and do a good job of "following through" on their shots? I tell you what, next game, really pay attention to Scheyer's FT's. I'd be willing to bet you a lot of money that if he follows through, he makes 90% of those and the ones where he doesn't follow through on the shot, he'll miss about half.

  9. #9
    does anyone know what Singler says before he shoots a FT? He mouths something before EVERY ONE. What is it?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Hancock 4 Duke View Post
    does anyone know what Singler says before he shoots a FT? He mouths something before EVERY ONE. What is it?
    Looks to me like he says "rainbow"

  11. #11
    I hadn't noticed that about Scheyer, however, if it is true, maybe on the ones he flicks, it doesn't feel right, and the flick is him trying to adjust the shot at the end to "will" it through the hoop. Maybe he would have missed those anyway, but he's trying to fix it at the last second. I'm no Scheyer, but I know I have a tendency to do that on all my shots. If it feels good I go up straight and "let it hang". If it doesn't feel right, I trying to adjust at the last second and I'm moving toward the basket for the rebound as soon as the ball leaves my hands.
    LET'S GO DUKE!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lompoc, West Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Hancock 4 Duke View Post
    does anyone know what Singler says before he shoots a FT? He mouths something before EVERY ONE. What is it?
    I've tried to read his lips but alas, I'm stumped. JJ would recite the same thing before each shot. Hey, whatever works. You need something to remind you to slow down, take your time, catch your breath and be relaxed. Too many forget that you have plenty of time, after being handed the ball, to take the shot. I have noticed too many hurried releases, resulting in some shots that haven't hit the mark.

    Watch our team today when at the line. If they take their time, they will generally put up a good shot.

  13. #13
    I've tried to read his lips too. The best I can see is it's something like "Come on, man." But I could be totally wrong. I'm constantly entertaining my wife with my botched song lyrics when I'm singing along to the radio. Maybe I'll ask my mom to watch during tonight's game. She was a special ed teacher that taught the deaf to read lips. If anyone can pick it up, she can.
    LET'S GO DUKE!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC

    This gets my vote

    Quote Originally Posted by heyman25 View Post
    I don't think he is a great shooter,but this year's team relies on him heavily to score and run the offense. He definitely is not money or he would not have missed that front end of the 1 and 1,
    for the most ridiculous post of the night. Stats on our three big free throw shooters: G is 112/159 (70.4%); Kyle is 116/154 (75.3%); Jon is 147/177 (83.1%). There is NO ONE I would rather have at the line at any point in any game than Jon. Yes, he missed that free throw after playing 39 minutes and hitting 4 key 3 point shots. I was surprised, but I don't think it is because he "isn't money."

    Remember Jason's big free throw miss? He wasn't money either, was he? Laettner missed some free throws at the end of one game his frosh year, and we lost. It happens. When anyone starts shooting 100% from the charity stripe, I'll vote for that person to go ahead of Jon. There are a few guys with higher % (Pocius, for example) but they don't shoot enough to really count.

    Furthermore, I believe Jon's FT % has gone down a little BECAUSE he is playing the point. His freshman year, he shot .849; last year, he shot .889.

    But no, I forgot... he isn't money, is he?!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeDevilDeb View Post
    for the most ridiculous post of the night. Stats on our three big free throw shooters: G is 112/159 (70.4%); Kyle is 116/154 (75.3%); Jon is 147/177 (83.1%). There is NO ONE I would rather have at the line at any point in any game than Jon. Yes, he missed that free throw after playing 39 minutes and hitting 4 key 3 point shots. I was surprised, but I don't think it is because he "isn't money."

    Remember Jason's big free throw miss? He wasn't money either, was he? Laettner missed some free throws at the end of one game his frosh year, and we lost. It happens. When anyone starts shooting 100% from the charity stripe, I'll vote for that person to go ahead of Jon. There are a few guys with higher % (Pocius, for example) but they don't shoot enough to really count.

    Furthermore, I believe Jon's FT % has gone down a little BECAUSE he is playing the point. His freshman year, he shot .849; last year, he shot .889.

    But no, I forgot... he isn't money, is he?!
    Actually, you have those flipped. Henderson is 75%, Singler is 70%. But yes, Scheyer is much better on the line than either of them.

    Other than that, I think the discussion of any player being "money" is silly. Jon's a good free throw shooter - the best free throw shooter on the team. I don't think anyone gets better in pressure/late situations - if they did, I'd question their motivation/effort earlier in the game. If all one means by saying "money" is that the player is highly like to make free throws at any given point in time, then Scheyer certainly qualifies.

  16. #16

    Read my lips

    I thinks it's Rambo Singler says

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC

    Not flipped

    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Actually, you have those flipped. Henderson is 75%, Singler is 70%. But yes, Scheyer is much better on the line than either of them.

    Other than that, I think the discussion of any player being "money" is silly. Jon's a good free throw shooter - the best free throw shooter on the team. I don't think anyone gets better in pressure/late situations - if they did, I'd question their motivation/effort earlier in the game. If all one means by saying "money" is that the player is highly like to make free throws at any given point in time, then Scheyer certainly qualifies.
    If you get the stats from goduke.com, I have them flipped. But if you calculate them yourself, mine are correct. 11200/159=70.4. 11600/154=75.3.

    Unfortunately, I think it is goduke that has them flipped!!!!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeDevilDeb View Post
    If you get the stats from goduke.com, I have them flipped. But if you calculate them yourself, mine are correct. 11200/159=70.4. 11600/154=75.3.

    Unfortunately, I think it is goduke that has them flipped!!!!
    GoDuke has it correct as well. The calculations were correct - you just attached the wrong names to the stats. Singler is 112/159, Henderson is 116/154.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC

    My bad

    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    GoDuke has it correct as well. The calculations were correct - you just attached the wrong names to the stats. Singler is 112/159, Henderson is 116/154.
    I should have known that Duke would not have an error in their stats. Thanks, CDu, for pointing this out. I appreciate your gentle correction!

    And I know that we are both yelling GO DUKE!!!! today.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeDevilDeb View Post
    I should have known that Duke would not have an error in their stats. Thanks, CDu, for pointing this out. I appreciate your gentle correction!

    And I know that we are both yelling GO DUKE!!!! today.
    Sorry to point it out - I just remember the announcers discussing the fact that Singler has been mediocre from the line this year at 70%, which triggered the thought.

    As for the last part, you are absolutely correct. I want Duke to make Gary (and Maryland) sweat tomorrow (more than usual) as they await their tourney fate.

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