The Fall of Kentucky

[BlueintheFace]

Kentucky LOST to Georgia (the worst team in the SEC) at home ON SENIOR NIGHT. They will now need to beat Florida at home AND probably win the SEC tournament to make the tournament. Billy G led the Wildcats to #11 seed and first round exit in the tournament last year. Kentucky has officially fallen off the bubble!

Here are some Relevant Facts (In the interest of humor)

- Kentucky hasn't missed the tourney since 1990-1991 season when they were on probation.

- Kentucky is the winningest program in college basketball history

- Recruit Patrick Patterson spurned Duke for Kentucky and Billy G

- Kentucky fans are freaking crazy!!! (http://www.catspause.com)

Sidenote: Indiana won just one conference game this year.

The Basketball world is upside down this year. What a huge basketball story!

[Lavabe]

Should make for some interesting conversations when I walk my dog, Georgia, while I wear my Duke hoodie!

[mus074]

you're a cats fan. I live in Louisville and went to UK for grad school. I'm not convinced its as bad as all that. I mean, the far bigger issue here is the fact that the Cats last went to the Final Four in 1998. More than 10 years ago. Hard to fall from the sky when you haven't left the ground in a while.

But take heart. The pundits will in fact make the same arguments you just recited when UK misses the tourney. But no such argument or attention was given to UConn's recent absence. They aren't as relevant as they would have you believe.

[BlueintheFace]

you're a cats fan. I live in Louisville and went to UK for grad school. I'm not convinced its as bad as all that. I mean, the far bigger issue here is the fact that the Cats last went to the Final Four in 1998. More than 10 years ago. Hard to fall from the sky when you haven't left the ground in a while.

But take heart. The pundits will in fact make the same arguments you just recited when UK misses the tourney. But no such argument or attention was given to UConn's recent absence. They aren't as relevant as they would have you believe.

yah, but not making the tourney is a huge deal. It would mean that they aren't even relevant in MArch... at all.

Also, by Florida at home I meant Florida on the road...

[mus074]

yah, but not making the tourney is a huge deal. It would mean that they aren't even relevant in MArch... at all.

Also, by Florida at home I meant Florida on the road...

Well, they can drop that one too if they pull a UGa and win the SEC tourney. The SEC is ripe for a lower seed final appearance again, and UK could be the team to pull it off and earn a dance ticket. Everyone in the conference can lose on a given night.

But then again, Billy G might enjoy an NIT run. If he thinks the coeds dig it.

[Uncle Drew]

Kentucky LOST to Georgia (the worst team in the SEC) at home ON SENIOR NIGHT. They will now need to beat Florida at home AND probably win the SEC tournament to make the tournament. Billy G led the Wildcats to #11 seed and first round exit in the tournament last year. Kentucky has officially fallen off the bubble!

Here are some Relevant Facts (In the interest of humor)

- Kentucky hasn't missed the tourney since 1990-1991 season when they were on probation.

- Kentucky is the winningest program in college basketball history

- Recruit Patrick Patterson spurned Duke for Kentucky and Billy G

- Kentucky fans are freaking crazy!!! (http://www.catspause.com)

Sidenote: Indiana won just one conference game this year.

The Basketball world is upside down this year. What a huge basketball story!

I was looking at top 25 rankings and RPI rankings earlier tonight. I knew the SEC was down this season but man are they DOWN. One team in the top 25 (LSU) and just two in RPI top 25 (LSU, Tennessee). And one has to imagine how bad it could be for Kentucky if this were an "up" year in the SEC. I haven't heard what the predictions are for SEC bids to the NCAAT but it has to be low.

Oh and pointing out Patterson and how he teased Duke then took Kentucky to the prom. I really can't say I hate Kentucky all that much, but the PP thing truly makes me glad they will almost certainly miss the big dance. But I have to also say even with Georgetown's high strength of schedule, with their win loss total...well I just don't see it. After supposably leading for Greg Monroe and then being spurned without even taking a visit to the Duke campus. Well some would say it's wrong to take joy in others failures but to Patterson and Monroe, "you chose poorly, that is not the cup of a carpenter".

[RelativeWays]

You want Monroe and Patterson to age rapidly only to crumble into dust? Ruthless I don't know about PP, but Monroe is supposedly gone after this year. So we're about 3 weeks from not really giving a crap what he chose.

[rthomas]

Kentucky LOST to Georgia (the worst team in the SEC) at home ON SENIOR NIGHT. They will now need to beat Florida at home AND probably win the SEC tournament to make the tournament. Billy G led the Wildcats to #11 seed and first round exit in the tournament last year. Kentucky has officially fallen off the bubble!

Here are some Relevant Facts (In the interest of humor)

- Kentucky hasn't missed the tourney since 1990-1991 season when they were on probation.

- Kentucky is the winningest program in college basketball history

- Recruit Patrick Patterson spurned Duke for Kentucky and Billy G

- Kentucky fans are freaking crazy!!! (http://www.catspause.com)

Sidenote: Indiana won just one conference game this year.

The Basketball world is upside down this year. What a huge basketball story!

One other relevant fact that you missed: Kentucky fans ran a very good coach out of town. And then hired a not so good coach.

[KyDevilinIL]

While I enjoy piling on the UK trainwreck as much as anyone (the fans simply bring it on themselves), I strongly caution against going overboard with the trash talking.

As much as I hope UK remains irrelevant for as long as possible, it's important to remember that since Rupp, only two head coaches (Sutton and so far Gillispie) have failed to win a national championship while at the school. That's more than a half century of fairly consistent excellence under all sorts of different leadership, and perhaps no other program can match it.

Kentucky has gone through rough patches before, and Kentucky always bounces back. It's the curse of those of us who hate UK basketball with deep, raging passion – UK always bounces back. Somehow, someway, UK's sinking ship will be saved.

Until then, though, please continue to make fun. Heaven knows these people need a healthy dose of humility.

[JasonEvans]

Kentucky LOST to Georgia (the worst team in the SEC) at home ON SENIOR NIGHT. They will now need to beat Florida at home AND probably win the SEC tournament to make the tournament. Billy G led the Wildcats to #11 seed and first round exit in the tournament last year. Kentucky has officially fallen off the bubble!

Ummmm, they do not need to beat Florida and win the SEC tourney. All they need to do is win the SEC tourney to make the NCAAs. Winning the SEC gives you an automatic bid, just ask Georgia.

That said, I think you were saying Kentucky needed wins in the SEC tourney to make the dance. I agree. With a game left at Florida and then the SEC tourney, I think Kentucky needs to find its way to at least 2 more victories to have good shot at a bubble bid.

Kentucky's RPI is currently in the 70s-- not good. They have 19 wins, but even with 20 wins their resume is not going to look all that good. They now have a loss to Georgia on their resume and Georgia is among the lowest rated of all the major conference teams (#296 in the RPI before last night-- awful!). Kentucky does have nice wins over Tennessee and West Virginia on their resume, but not much else. 9 of their wins have come against teams rated 200 or lower in the RPI and those almost should not count.

But, as so many folks have pointed out, the SEC is full of mediocrity this year and some mid-level team will probably make a run to at least the finals and get a bid as a result. Kentucky is as good a candidate as anyone-- and with their history of SEC tourney success -- would be the most likely choice to have the poise and confidence to actually do it.

--Jason "Billy Clyde has some nice recruits coming in this fall and next-- but the word is that Patterson and Meeks are likely to flee to the NBA this summer" Evans

[KenTankerous]

Watching that game last night was painful! Reading the dribble and tripe from my fellow UK fans on catpause, however, is just shameful. Most continue to blame Tubby - pathetic. I was always a fan of Tubby and wish he would have gotten the same love and support from the administration and fans as Pitino.

Billy Clyde does have some good recruits coming so I am not ready to pull the plug on him just yet. But if he doesn't start developing his young guys and find some consistency, he won't last another year.

And as much as I hate to say it, without the automatic SEC tournament bid, Kentucky has no place in the field of the best 65 teams in the country right now.

[yancem]

I was looking at top 25 rankings and RPI rankings earlier tonight. I knew the SEC was down this season but man are they DOWN. One team in the top 25 (LSU) and just two in RPI top 25 (LSU, Tennessee). And one has to imagine how bad it could be for Kentucky if this were an "up" year in the SEC. I haven't heard what the predictions are for SEC bids to the NCAAT but it has to be low.

Oh and pointing out Patterson and how he teased Duke then took Kentucky to the prom. I really can't say I hate Kentucky all that much, but the PP thing truly makes me glad they will almost certainly miss the big dance. But I have to also say even with Georgetown's high strength of schedule, with their win loss total...well I just don't see it. After supposably leading for Greg Monroe and then being spurned without even taking a visit to the Duke campus. Well some would say it's wrong to take joy in others failures but to Patterson and Monroe, "you chose poorly, that is not the cup of a carpenter".

I started a thread about Patterson and Monroe possibly taking the Duke curse to new level. Patterson fairly clearly led Duke on to added attention/press only to sign with storied Kentucky. In his two years Kentucky has slid pretty far. Monore, I don't think, led Duke on in the same manner as Patterson but I thought it very odd that Duke, who seemed to be one of his favorites, didn't even get a visit. Now Georgetown, another storied program and preseason top 10, is in the midst of one of its worst seasons in a while.

Now if Florida struggles next year with Boynton, we'll know that I'm on to something. Duke was supposed to be his top choice for much of his recruitment and he, like Monroe, never even canceled his visit.

[miramar]

I started a thread about Patterson and Monroe possibly taking the Duke curse to new level. Patterson fairly clearly led Duke on to added attention/press only to sign with storied Kentucky. In his two years Kentucky has slid pretty far. Monore, I don't think, led Duke on in the same manner as Patterson but I thought it very odd that Duke, who seemed to be one of his favorites, didn't even get a visit. Now Georgetown, another storied program and preseason top 10, is in the midst of one of its worst seasons in a while.

Now if Florida struggles next year with Boynton, we'll know that I'm on to something. Duke was supposed to be his top choice for much of his recruitment and he, like Monroe, never even canceled his visit.

The sad case of Shaun Livingston might be the worst example of the Duke curse. He played a total of 149 games in an injury-plagued career and is now out of the league, which is a shame.

[moonpie23]

The sad case of Shaun Livingston might be the worst example of the Duke curse. He played a total of 149 games in an injury-plagued career and is now out of the league, which is a shame.

without. The injury,tho, shawn was showing exactly why he jumped to the NBA. (notice I didn't say spurned duke)

[BlueintheFace]

Ummmm, they do not need to beat Florida and win the SEC tourney. All they need to do is win the SEC tourney to make the NCAAs. Winning the SEC gives you an automatic bid, just ask Georgia.

True, I had it in my mind that they just couldn't lose any more games... still

[DukePA's Mom]

One other relevant fact that you missed: Kentucky fans ran a very good coach out of town. And then hired a not so good coach.

You've got that right. I can only guess why they ran Tubbie out. I really like him and the way he ran ky"s program. He's a class coach and person. Guess ky fans prefer the pitino type.

[Uncle Drew]

without. The injury,tho, shawn was showing exactly why he jumped to the NBA. (notice I didn't say spurned duke)

Having seen Shawn play healthy in the NBA I can see how we could have used his playmaking abilities if only for one season. But even if he had come to Duke and stayed four years I can't see where he would have bulked up too much. And his outside shot to my knowledge was never deadly. Shawns' draft stock would have never been higher than it was when he bolted IMO. And I think the same is probablt ture of JR Smith, I just wish he had taken Marvin Williams with him.

We know Patterson led Duke on. I could say recruiting experts led Duke fans on about Monroe, but they were just reporting from what they had learned and gut feelings. I honestly don't think Monroe took his visit to Georgetown with the intention of giving them a verbal that weekend. THAT is what has always confused me about it and I never have heard anyone explain. What did they tell him that made Georgetown look so good or make Duke look like second best without even taking a visit?

[Uncle Drew]

I'm sorry for double posting, but if you haven't gone and looked at the UK message boards and what their fans are saying, GO....LOOK. They are brutal. Half are saying it's Tubby's fault, that he left the program that far down when he left. The other half are blaming BG, saying he has lost all control and has thrown his own team under the bus.

I know it's been a while since Duke was in a Final Four and we are some of the most spoiled college basketball fans on earth. I don't think we would get that brutal if the mods actually let us, but I could be wrong. I honestly feel sorry for the fans because they feel like a lot of us felt in the 1995 season only worse. I've never hated Kentucky, regardless of what they feel about Duke. (Can't blame them having to watch "the shot" every March over and over again.) Truth be told in economic times like this, it's nice to have sports as a distraction. But unless you're a Cardinals fan inthe state of Kentucky, these have to seem like really low times. I mean even if Duke doesn't beat UNC Sunday there is still hope, which it seems like UK fans are losing or have lost. But hey I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan...and we dumped TO yesterday, there is always hope! Wooo Hoooo!

[Wander]

Kentucky is done, and Florida ain't so far behind (lost to MSU last night). I don't think the SEC is any better than the A-10 this year.

With Virginia Tech and Miami also choking away bids and Notre Dame and Georgetown officially dead, it's time to start giving really serious consideration to the Niagaras and Rhode Islands of the country.

[77devil]

It will be interesting to see how many bids the SEC receives to the Big Dance. More than 2 would be the result of BCS conference bias and past reputation IMO. The SOS, except for Tennessee is abismal, particularly non conference. If LSU wins the SEC tournament and Florida, Tennessee and South Carolina exit early, one could make a strong argument that the SEC only deserves one bid. It's not a likely scenario.

Feinstein made a great point about footbal oriented BCS league expansions and the negative impact on basketball. The SEC would seem to be exhibit A, and there is no denying the data that the ACC has experienced less NCAA tournament success since expansion. Coincidence? We'll have to wait and see.