Greensboro Subregional Discussion

[dairedevil]

It may be premature, but others have made comment on the importance of getting to go to Greensboro for the first round of NCAA games. Common thought is that no more than 2 ACC teams will make it to that site. Is it really an advantage to get Greensboro if the other team is UNC? It seems that in previous years, the majority of "fans" will be converted to baby blue, and cheer against Duke, which negates any perceived home court advantage we would get by staying geographically close to home.
It has happened a number of times since the pod system was started, usually when both teams were seeded 1 or 2 in their region.

[CDu]

It may be premature, but others have made comment on the importance of getting to go to Greensboro for the first round of NCAA games. Common thought is that no more than 2 ACC teams will make it to that site. Is it really an advantage to get Greensboro if the other team is UNC? It seems that in previous years, the majority of "fans" will be converted to baby blue, and cheer against Duke, which negates any perceived home court advantage we would get by staying geographically close to home.
It has happened a number of times since the pod system was started, usually when both teams were seeded 1 or 2 in their region.

It is only advantageous in that it requires less travel for the players. But yes, it will not be advantageous in terms of fan base. Greensboro will be a UNC home gym (regardless of the games played) if UNC is there. It will not be advantageous (from the fan perspective) for Duke if Duke and UNC are there. The question is whether it's better to play a "road" game close to home or whether it's better to play a neutral game further away.

[davekay1971]

It's a great point. When Duke and UNC shared Charlotte a few years back, the crowd was probably more vehemently anti-Duke than it would have been if Duke had played just about anywhere else in the country (save the Dean Dome). Charlotte is just a rabidly pro-Holes area. Of course, anywhere Duke plays the majority of the crowd will be against them - part of that is the anti-Duke thing, part is the tendency of neutral fans to pull for the underdog. My feeling, however, is that sharing a locale with UNC anywhere in North Carolina will make the crowd more vehemently anti-Duke. That being said, if we really have aspirations to be a final four team, much less a contender, we should be able to take care of the first two rounds (particularly if we maintain ourselves as a 1 or 2 seed) wherever we play.

[SMO]

It may be premature, but others have made comment on the importance of getting to go to Greensboro for the first round of NCAA games. Common thought is that no more than 2 ACC teams will make it to that site. Is it really an advantage to get Greensboro if the other team is UNC? It seems that in previous years, the majority of "fans" will be converted to baby blue, and cheer against Duke, which negates any perceived home court advantage we would get by staying geographically close to home.
It has happened a number of times since the pod system was started, usually when both teams were seeded 1 or 2 in their region.

I'd rather Duke play in the non-DC part of the Mid-Atlantic or Northeast to avoid too much travel distance and rabid anti-Duke fanaticism.

[Edouble]

The question is whether it's better to play a "road" game close to home or whether it's better to play a neutral game further away.

Yeah, this is basically what it boils down to. I personally think that it is advantageous to play in Greensborough. I think that the level of anti-Duke sentiments in the crowd has something to do with the order of the games.

In situations in the past when Duke and UNC are playing in back to back games, I remember that the effects are worse if UNC plays first. The crowd is usually amped up after a UNC win (usually) and they're usually willing to stick around to see if Duke's opponent gets off to a good start. If the game is competative, the 'Heels fans will stick around and things tend to build against the Blue Devils, somewhat exponentially, as the game is close, and the fans are against us. If Duke starts out hot, alot of the 'Heels fans will leave, and things get exponentially better for us--our team can hear mainly just our fans cheering for them, and we are winning the game.

If Duke plays before UNC, I feel like the effects of the 'Heels fans are felt to much less of a degree. IIRC, the 'Heels fans are not chomping at the bit to show up two and a half hours early just to cheer against the Devils in a game where Duke is seeded higher and will probably win anyway.

So overall, I think the situation gets really bad when UNC plays first and we get off to a slow start. The chances of this happening are low enough so that I think it is an advantage to get the Greensborough pod.

[jjasper0729]

charlotte is much more pro-unc and that's why that time there wasn't so good from a fan base perspective. I think we have played more games in g-boro during regular seasons past and it would be a little less hostile if both were at the greensboro site.

[Indoor66]

Personally I would prefer Duke to travel for the first round games. I think it helps focus to have the team in an out of town hotel for the games.

[rasputin]

I'd rather have Duke in Greensboro because I have tickets to the games there.

[mddukefan]

Isn't true that most places Duke plays (Cameron aside) that majority of the fans will be against them? There are a lot of Duke Haters out there, plus neutral fans at games that are just going to sway towards the underdog. I'm sure a ton of people watching the Belmont game last year became huge Belmont fans as the game went on. I'm happy to see Duke play anywhere in the Tournament this year. If Greensboro is the easiest on the kids from a travel/mental standpoint that will be the destination that i'm pulling for...

[dairedevil]

Yeah, this is basically what it boils down to. I personally think that it is advantageous to play in Greensborough. I think that the level of anti-Duke sentiments in the crowd has something to do with the order of the games.

In situations in the past when Duke and UNC are playing in back to back games, I remember that the effects are worse if UNC plays first. The crowd is usually amped up after a UNC win (usually) and they're usually willing to stick around to see if Duke's opponent gets off to a good start. If the game is competative, the 'Heels fans will stick around and things tend to build against the Blue Devils, somewhat exponentially, as the game is close, and the fans are against us. If Duke starts out hot, alot of the 'Heels fans will leave, and things get exponentially better for us--our team can hear mainly just our fans cheering for them, and we are winning the game.

If Duke plays before UNC, I feel like the effects of the 'Heels fans are felt to much less of a degree. IIRC, the 'Heels fans are not chomping at the bit to show up two and a half hours early just to cheer against the Devils in a game where Duke is seeded higher and will probably win anyway.

So overall, I think the situation gets really bad when UNC plays first and we get off to a slow start. The chances of this happening are low enough so that I think it is an advantage to get the Greensborough pod.

I hadn't thought of it as a timing of the games issue. Of course, it's probably not as much for the first round of games. Have they ever had Duke and unc back to back for those? But the second round is another story as the first round losers sell tickets to the next round of games. And while I understand the cheering for the underdog (I've done it many times, myself), and the generic hatred for Duke, I think that if you are in Carolina country, many of those seats that are picked up will be bought by carolina fans, so the vitriol is greater.

It's not that I think that this team is so fragile that they can't take the negative cheers. I think, hope and pray that we will be fine this year. I'm also trying to temper my expectations, because there are some scary good teams out there. And there is a lot of basketball to be played. It just really bugs me to see a crowd be SOOO against Duke. And then, there they are just going crazy for unc...where's the support for the underdog then? Where's the hate for the successful, always up there, loved by espn, gets all the calls team? Doesn't that describe unc?? I know all the reasons they get the cheers...large state school vs elite private means larger fan base, etc., but on this issue I make the choice to be unreasonable. And I will cheer them wherever they are! GO DUKE!!!!!

[arnie]

Isn't true that most places Duke plays (Cameron aside) that majority of the fans will be against them? There are a lot of Duke Haters out there, plus neutral fans at games that are just going to sway towards the underdog. I'm sure a ton of people watching the Belmont game last year became huge Belmont fans as the game went on. I'm happy to see Duke play anywhere in the Tournament this year. If Greensboro is the easiest on the kids from a travel/mental standpoint that will be the destination that i'm pulling for...

We should lobby for the NCAA to have an Alaska subregional; and then lobby to play there - that may be the only place (outside of CIS) where we would have support.

[brumby041]

MSG is usually pretty friendly.

We also seem to have pretty good luck in NJ.

[jjasper0729]

not sure if this is the thread for it, but DeCourcy has the mock bracket that the usbwa does in the same fashion as the selection committee and they have Duke going to Philly and Clemson joining UNC in Greensboro

Article with Link to Bracket

[hurleyfor3]

We should lobby for the NCAA to have an Alaska subregional; and then lobby to play there - that may be the only place (outside of CIS) where we would have support.

We already play in Alaska every year. They don't like us too much there.

(That's a Gary Williams reference.)

The 2004 and 2006 ACC Championship games were in Greensboro and had very pro-Duke crowds. So was 2005 (DC) and to a lesser extent 2002 (Charlotte). The trick is not to have any other local teams playing.

When did this whole "people at a neutral court hating us" thing start, anyway? Was it Rupp in 1998, which K largely brought on himself?

[duke2x]

The anti-Duke sentiment has come in differing degress. I've heard K said he first noticed it after the '91 season. I think it's gotten worse recently because of alleged officiating bias. I try to make at least 1 Duke NCAA tournament game every year. Lexington, DC, and Charlotte are the only places where the crowd was strongly anti-Duke.

Recognizing correlation does not mean causation and past performance does not predict future results, Duke has made past the 1st 2 rounds 10/11 times (91%) when playing in NC 1985-present. That number drops to 7/12 (58%) when we don't play in NC. The Sweet 16 numbers: Duke made the Final 4 7/7 times when playing in NYC/Philly. That number drops to 30% (3/10) elsewhere.

I'm hoping we end up in Greensboro because I ordered tickets last spring (still waiting to get them). My 2nd choice would probably be Philly or Miami. I think Clemson has the edge on us for Greensboro unless they slump a little or we beat them in the ACC tournament. It's not good that we are 0-3 against the top teams in the ACC right now for subregional seeding purposes.

[geraldsneighbor]

We already play in Alaska every year. They don't like us too much there.

(That's a Gary Williams reference.)

The 2004 and 2006 ACC Championship games were in Greensboro and had very pro-Duke crowds. So was 2005 (DC) and to a lesser extent 2002 (Charlotte). The trick is not to have any other local teams playing.

When did this whole "people at a neutral court hating us" thing start, anyway? Was it Rupp in 1998, which K largely brought on himself?

I was at the Duke-Belmont game last year, and that crowd was all anti-Duke. Alot had to do with WVU which traveled really well. Plus, people cheer for upsets. The Saturday game Duke-WVU was pretty much a WVU home game. That day may never leave my system.

[DukeDevilDeb]

I was at the Duke-Belmont game last year, and that crowd was all anti-Duke. Alot had to do with WVU which traveled really well. Plus, people cheer for upsets. The Saturday game Duke-WVU was pretty much a WVU home game. That day may never leave my system.

I was in Charlotte in 2005 when we played the first two rounds there, and it was as bad as it could get. Our game was the last or second to last--UNC had already played and won. Not only were the Carolina fans as loud and as obnoxious as possible; they were joined by the fans of EVERY OTHER TEAM that played there. Those of us who were cheering for Duke couldn't be heard at all. And everyone in the place was wearing baby blue... I thought I was in the Dean Dome. Have you ever heard thousands of people cheering for Mississippi State? That's what happened when we played them.

However, there was good news. We won both games in Charlotte and made it to the Sweet 16. But if Carolina is going to be in Charlotte or Greensboro or even Alaska, I want Duke somewhere far, far away!

GO DEVILS!

[dukebballcamper90-91]

I hope we get the heck out of the state and I'm from here. I don't like sharing nothing with the Tar Heels

[geraldsneighbor]

Might be a mute point now. Could be Philadelphia bound.

[weezie]

If we keep this up, we'll be wearing sunblock in Phoenix.