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  1. #1

    Ohio State Recruiting

    Anyone else amazed like I am at how well Matta has recruited during his short time at Ohio State? The 2008 class might be even better than Oden and company. Also, has anyone noticed/mentioned that Florida's repeat was at the hands of the "Thad five" just like Duke's repeat was at the hands of the "Fab Five"? Thought it was a cool coincidence and I apologize if already talked about.

    2006:
    ***** Greg Oden
    ***** Daequan Cook
    ***** Mike Conley
    **** David Lighty
    **** Othello Hunter

    2007:
    ***** Kosta Koufos
    **** Jon Diebler
    **** Evan Turner
    **** Dallas Lauderdale
    **** Eric Wallace

    2008:
    ***** BJ Mullens
    ***** Anthony Crater
    ***** William Buford
    ***** Luke Babbitt
    **** Walter Offutt

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Western North Carolina

    Paper

    Quote Originally Posted by houstondukie View Post
    Anyone else amazed like I am at how well Matta has recruited during his short time at Ohio State? The 2008 class might be even better than Oden and company. Also, has anyone noticed/mentioned that Florida's repeat was at the hands of the "Thad five" just like Duke's repeat was at the hands of the "Fab Five"? Thought it was a cool coincidence and I apologize if already talked about.

    2006:
    ***** Greg Oden
    ***** Daequan Cook
    ***** Mike Conley
    **** David Lighty
    **** Othello Hunter

    2007:
    ***** Kosta Koufos
    **** Jon Diebler
    **** Evan Turner
    **** Dallas Lauderdale
    **** Eric Wallace

    2008:
    ***** BJ Mullens
    ***** Anthony Crater
    ***** William Buford
    ***** Luke Babbitt
    **** Walter Offutt
    I will beleive this when I see the kids on campus, especially the 08 classes. There has got to be a logjam. It is one thing to tell a kid, sure you'll play, you're better than X. But eventurally the kid will see the TV and realize, I can't beat that guy out. There are too many wings coming in unless some attrition occurrs, and particularly in the post where Mullens and Koufos are concerned.

    I said this on another post, but if this recruiting holds up, Duke's predicted run in 08-09 will never materialize. The team listed above will absolutely destroy teams. They might not be in a game where the margin of victory is under 15. I am not talking about the average margin of victory (twenties) but a situation where there smallest margin of victory is greater than 15.

    It is wierd getting three classes like this in a row. Part of it is what I call the Flint Effect. This was when MSU made their run a few years ago. It was based on 3-5 rediculous high school recruiting years where Flint, Michigan had several high-major recruits. OSU may be living off solid talent within its borders, but maybe something hinky is going on. You better believe the NCAA is at least passively looking into this. OSU has had problems in this area before. Not saying there is hinkiness, only that it is suspicious. No school, until you go back to UCLA, has had three years of top 2-4 classes like OSU is looking at. Not Duke, KY, UNC, KS, nobody. Strange that it occurrs at a football factory with no real history of NCAA success or media coverage.

    Patrick Yates

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Yates View Post
    I will beleive this when I see the kids on campus, especially the 08 classes. There has got to be a logjam. It is one thing to tell a kid, sure you'll play, you're better than X. But eventurally the kid will see the TV and realize, I can't beat that guy out. There are too many wings coming in unless some attrition occurrs, and particularly in the post where Mullens and Koufos are concerned.

    I said this on another post, but if this recruiting holds up, Duke's predicted run in 08-09 will never materialize. The team listed above will absolutely destroy teams. They might not be in a game where the margin of victory is under 15. I am not talking about the average margin of victory (twenties) but a situation where there smallest margin of victory is greater than 15.

    It is wierd getting three classes like this in a row. Part of it is what I call the Flint Effect. This was when MSU made their run a few years ago. It was based on 3-5 rediculous high school recruiting years where Flint, Michigan had several high-major recruits. OSU may be living off solid talent within its borders, but maybe something hinky is going on. You better believe the NCAA is at least passively looking into this. OSU has had problems in this area before. Not saying there is hinkiness, only that it is suspicious. No school, until you go back to UCLA, has had three years of top 2-4 classes like OSU is looking at. Not Duke, KY, UNC, KS, nobody. Strange that it occurrs at a football factory with no real history of NCAA success or media coverage.

    Patrick Yates
    I was chatting with a buddy of mine yesterday about Greg Oden - stay or not - and I mentioned these three classes. I think my exact words to him were, "It's really amazing. Especially at a school like OSU. Maybe he's getting kids to stay at home - and there has always been good talent in the area - but to come out of nowhere like this. You almost have to wonder if something is going on." I base this on nothing but the coincidence of things coming together so well for this school as of late - just seems, uh, odd...

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Yates View Post
    The team listed above will absolutely destroy teams. They might not be in a game where the margin of victory is under 15. I am not talking about the average margin of victory (twenties) but a situation where there smallest margin of victory is greater than 15.
    Whoa, chill out there buddy. You're putting way too much stock into recruiting rankings.

    With that said, Matta is obviously a great recruiter, and he could be building a really good basketball program at Ohio State.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Naptown, IN
    Edit: Biased opinions. Sorry.

    I'm from Ohio, though I with ties to Michigan. The whole Mich-Ohio thing got the best of me. OOPS!!!
    Last edited by MrBisonDevil; 04-09-2007 at 10:00 AM.

  6. #6
    Most of the 2006 class will be gone by the time that 2008 class comes to Columbus. Oden is gone. Conley Jr. is a borderline lottery pick this year with the great tournament he had, but I think he leaves after next year. Othello Hunter was a JUCO player, and I think only has one more year of eligibility left. Cook didn't do enough this year to be a first rounder but I think he also leaves after a good year next year. After the dust settles, only Lighty may remain. I think that's why Matta was able to get those big time players in 2008. No way they're coming in to backup.

    What is most amazing is how quickly he has the guys committed. While most of the class remained unsigned many months ago, Ohio St. had 4 top 20 committments. Don't these guys want to take some visits and see what else is out there? I didn't want to bring up the money conspiracies but something seems odd. I thought Ohio St. was a football school.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham at heart
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBisonDevil View Post
    My ex-wife was professor at Ohio State. She told me this yesterday: Basically, if a basketball player wants to spend 1-3 years in college, have very little class-work to do and get a lot of TV exposure (at least in the midwest) "Then Come to Ohio State".

    She had a similar statement about the OSU football program...
    Apparently she wasn't an English professor.

    This is why I love the internet... completely baseless and anonymous statements made out to be facts. Stunning.

    You guys all know that OSU is one of 5 (IIRC) athletic departments in the country that operate at a profit? Is it possible that OSU looked at schools like Florida and Texas and said, "Hey, I bet if we pour tons of money into recruiting and facilities, we can get the best of the best and build juggernauts under The Sweater Vest and Matta!"?

    No... it must be dirty. I mean everyone is dirty... except us.

    Objectivity, people. Consider it.
    WWJDD?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham at heart
    Quote Originally Posted by houstondukie View Post
    I thought Ohio St. was a football school.
    You mean like Texas, Florida, Oklahoma, Michigan State... shall I go on?

    Face it folks, we are entering a new era in college athletics. It is the time of the super-university. Big state schools with tons of alums, tons of money, and tons of clout trying to build multiple programs that yield championships, publicity, and dollars.
    WWJDD?

  9. #9
    Agreed. Let's be careful with assumptions. Most of the players are Ohioans. If the premier basketball school in the state (now that Cincy is no longer top tier) can keep players in-state, they will have a good chance. IMHO, Matta is simply doing a good job managing the HS relationships in the State. Remember, he had strong relationships with HS coaches through his ties with Xavier.

    Just a few points.... Diebler and Koufos will be players. Lauderdale is not as good as his stat sheet. I watched Raymar Morgan (currently with MSU) and team shut him down completely in last year's HS playoffs. I was woefully disappointed in Lauderdale's performance.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post

    No... it must be dirty. I mean everyone is dirty... except us.

    Objectivity, people. Consider it.
    I don't think that anything shady is going on in this situation... but OSU is known for its boosters paying athletes. Ohio State has a LOT of problems with its athletic department.

    http://www.fanblogs.com/ohio_state/005147.php

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...-payback_x.htm

    http://www2.ncaa.org/portal/media_an...tions_rls.html

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...egations_x.htm

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    We in Ohio have often wondered why OSU basketball could not get in state and neighboring state players to sign on. Every players dream here is to play in the state championship games. The facility is great, people support a winning team--now that OSU is getting the best in state players, the other pieces are falling into place. I have seen some of these people--they are very good.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post
    You mean like Texas, Florida, Oklahoma, Michigan State... shall I go on?

    Face it folks, we are entering a new era in college athletics. It is the time of the super-university. Big state schools with tons of alums, tons of money, and tons of clout trying to build multiple programs that yield championships, publicity, and dollars.
    What evidence do you have that we are entering the "time of the super-university"?

    Sure, this year we had Florida/Ohio State in both sports - but I wouldn't go jumping the gun on that, that's just one example in one year.

    By the way, I definately appreciate your objectivity and calling people out on their BS of "everyone sucks but Duke."

  13. #13
    I'm neither making assumptions nor indicting anyone. From what I see Matta and OSU are stand up. Not a thing I know of to suggest otherwise. My point above is that it is unusual for a school to come from near nowhere to garner three classes like that (and it is a given that nobody knows how good these classes really are - plenty of discussions on this board about the innacuracies of judging H.S. talent). One would be remiss not to note the unusualness of a school to take in that talent (annointed) in this day when the schools b-ball program has hardly sniffed the Final 4 since Bobby Knight played there.

    I'm not suggesting something is wrong there - just that it is unusual. For all I know a "good" unusual (if you're an OSU fan). I yield to the probability that Matta is just a great recruiter, OSU is what it is, and there is really great talent in Ohio and environs. Until and unless something comes up - I'm simply impressed and surprised at this point.

  14. #14

    Thad Motta

    Is he Dick Motta's son (honestly don't follow Ohio St. hoops that close, but obvious question, isn't it)? Dick knew his X's & O's. Doubt his son would be dirty, but even Wooden couldn't stop "outsiders" from corrupting players - most people don't know about that dirty not so little UCLA secret.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    What evidence do you have that we are entering the "time of the super-university"?

    Sure, this year we had Florida/Ohio State in both sports - but I wouldn't go jumping the gun on that, that's just one example in one year.
    $$$$$. That's the proof.

    Alabama
    Saban (football) is making > $4 million.

    Florida
    Donovan (bball) is making ~ $2 million...and on the way up
    Meyer (football) is making > $2 million...and o

    Tennessee
    Fulmer (football) is making > $2 million
    Summit (bball) is making > $1.5 million.
    Pearl (bball) is making ~$1 million

    UNC
    Davis (football) is making ~ $2 million
    Ol Roy (bball) is pushing $2 million
    Hatchell is around $1 million

    Texas
    Brown (football) > $1.5 million
    Barnes (bball) ~$1.5 million
    Coach G ~ $1 million

    the list goes on and on. Ohio St., Michigan, USC, etc. The money involved in pro sports is drving it. Alabama had to pay Saban that money to pull him from the Dolphins. And the boosters will gladly pay it.

    And don't get started on facilities...which are paltry at best at Duke when compared to these other facilities. The facilities at UNC-football are considered some of the BEST in the country. And they won 2 games!

    It's big time. If you don't have the money, it's not going to last. The days are gone for "football school" vs. "basketball school". The money is there to have both.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by devilmon View Post
    Agreed. Let's be careful with assumptions. Most of the players are Ohioans. If the premier basketball school in the state (now that Cincy is no longer top tier) can keep players in-state, they will have a good chance. IMHO, Matta is simply doing a good job managing the HS relationships in the State. Remember, he had strong relationships with HS coaches through his ties with Xavier.

    Just a few points.... Diebler and Koufos will be players. Lauderdale is not as good as his stat sheet. I watched Raymar Morgan (currently with MSU) and team shut him down completely in last year's HS playoffs. I was woefully disappointed in Lauderdale's performance.

    I agree. Being an Ohioan, I just think it's about time Ohio State started getting a piece of the abundant in-state talent and Matta is responsible. He'd doing a good job and that's that. The point about relationships with in-state HS coaches is a good one because he was at Xavier before OSU, so he's been in the state for a long time now. People also need to realize that Ohio State just came off of NCAA sanctions which restricted the number of scholarships for a the past few years due to the Jim O' Brien scandal. Thus, they have a lot more scholarships than they've had in the past, as evidenced by the deep recruiting classes in '06, '07, and '08.

    Koufos and Diebler are as good as advertised, with Diebler passing LeBron for #1 all time in career points for Ohio HS Boys basksetball earlier this year (averaged 42 ppg...yes, 42). If you saw the McD's AA game, you saw Koufos and his play speaks for itself. Lauderdale is very overrated and will surely be asked to redshirt if Oden stays. He didn't do much in HS except rebound and dunk and he ALWAYS disappears against every other premier player he plays. If anyone remembers, Lauderdale played Zoubek last year and Zoubek had 29 while Lauderdale had 4. The game with Raymar Morgan was in last year's playoffs, and Morgan had 44 while Lauderdale had 7 if I'm not mistaken. Koufos' team knocked Lauderdale out of the state playoffs a month ago as well.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern Virginia

    Thad Matta

    Quote Originally Posted by madscavenger View Post
    Is he Dick Motta's son (honestly don't follow Ohio St. hoops that close, but obvious question, isn't it)?
    Thad Matta... Dick Motta

    thus I assume they are not related

  18. #18

    HBO Sports

    HBO Sports had an episode on athletics vs. academics across the country that covered graduation rates, the actual classes these guys are taking etc. Ohio State (And next to Duke they are my favorite school.) let players take classes like "Flower Arangement" to stay in school. And they and many other schools strongly urged their professors to give athletes passing grades to stay on the field / court. Most everyone considers Miami, FSU etc to be lax on graduating players and actually making them learn something. But the way that episode made it sound Ohio State is as bad if not worse than the other schools we all consider to be a sham.
    I'm no fan of Bob Costas (sp?) but he asked the NCAA president how many players in the two major college sports could actually get into their prospective schools if it weren't for athletics. Myles Brand of course said most could. But I seriously doubt without lowering academic standards if many of the players (even at Duke) could attend their prospective university.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by oregon98er View Post
    $$$$$. That's the proof.

    It's big time. If you don't have the money, it's not going to last. The days are gone for "football school" vs. "basketball school". The money is there to have both.
    I know that's what Florida, Ohio State, Michigan State, etc are TRYING to do, but where's the evidence that it's going to work? There will be some schools good in both (Florida, Ohio State), some basketball schools (Duke, UConn), some football schools (Florida State, Auburn), and some that really aren't good at either (Ole Miss, Colorado). I don't see how the basketball/football only schools are going to be eliminated.

    Michigan State and UNC are basketball schools right now, even though they're putting significant cash into their football programs. But this idea that you need to be a "superprogram" in order to do well in either sport is nonsense. Look at all these recent final four teams: Georgetown, UCLA, George Mason, Illinois, Michigan State, UNC, Duke, UConn, etc. I know there are a ton of schools attempting to get first-rate football/basketball programs but I've yet to see any evidence whatsoever that you're going to need to be successful in one in order to be successful in the other (there was a terrible Pat Forde article trying to claim that recently though).

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Susan View Post
    Thad Matta... Dick Motta

    thus I assume they are not related
    That'll teach me to speed through a thread. Good catch. The UCLA stuff remains disturbing to me, but noone ever talks about it cause of Wooden's halo. Wonder if he would be immune in today's ascerbic environment?

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