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  1. #1

    NY Post: Duke Says No More St. John's


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Houston
    Good, it's a silly series--a waste a nonconference game against a team that hasn't been good in seven or eight years and hasn't been great in far longer than that.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Marvis Linwood Thornton III is sad to hear the news.

    An update, in case you were wondering:
    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...on-5216/stats/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    From that article:

    'two of the classic regular season games in college basketball history'.

    yes, they were two good games. yes, they went down to the wire. yes, St. John's managed to win one of those games.

    a bit of overhype, though, no? in the history of college basketball?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeCO2009 View Post
    Good, it's a silly series--a waste a nonconference game against a team that hasn't been good in seven or eight years and hasn't been great in far longer than that.
    I agree. I think a week off like most (all?) other ACC teams seem to take is the best option. I don't think squeezing in another tough OOC game makes sense.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    I wonder who we will replace them with. I'm as big of a fan as a week off as K is, we are better off facing some competition that will prepare us for March. Georgetown might be a good one, we beat them up pretty well this year, but they look to be a talented team for some time to come.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    I wonder who we will replace them with. I'm as big of a fan as a week off as K is, we are better off facing some competition that will prepare us for March. Georgetown might be a good one, we beat them up pretty well this year, but they look to be a talented team for some time to come.
    There are three approaches we can take:
    1) Week off
    2) Tough OOC game
    3) Weak OOC game

    I'm not in favor of taking the week off. If you're going to use that approach, you might as well schedule a home game against Loyola or someone in the middle of that week, which becomes a glorified scrimmage in the midst of the tough grind that is ACC play. Let a bunch of guys get in the game, work on various weaknesses, etc. If I were coaching, that's what I'd do.

    That said, I wouldn't have a huge problem if K went in the other direction, deciding that he'd like a tough OOC test late in the year.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    I also think this has everything to do with the fact we have our annual "home game" in the NYC area and that we probably don't need another game in that area against a team like St. John's that has struggled the past few years. It's better to get that rest and prepare for the last couple of ACC games before the tourney.
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    2003-2004 HLM
    Duke | Mirecourt | Detroit| The U | USA

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Forest Hills, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by gotham devil View Post
    Wasn't this series generated through K's friendship with Mike Jarvis? With Jarvis gone, and the state of the SJU program (albeit on a bit of an uptick), I could have foreseen this.

    As a NYer (a Queens boy at that), I liked the series. Tried to get to MSG each time (in fact going in February). I personally will miss it and the banter with all my SJU colleagues at work (I'm just about the only Dukie in my office). But understand the logic here.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    That said, I wouldn't have a huge problem if K went in the other direction, deciding that he'd like a tough OOC test late in the year.
    I always been under the impression that is exactly what K wants. This is my assumption why the St. John's game has not been renewed, they are not the competition we want.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    I would prefer to see us add a tough OOC opponent to this slot. I fondly remember the late season games with Arizona, UCLA, and Notre Dame from years past. A tough OOC game late in the season is a great emulator of Sweet 16 and Elite Eight match-ups.
    Bob Green
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    I wonder who we will replace them with. I'm as big of a fan as a week off as K is, we are better off facing some competition that will prepare us for March. Georgetown might be a good one, we beat them up pretty well this year, but they look to be a talented team for some time to come.
    It's disappointing, but hopefully Kevin White can arrange annual future games in the NY area, the current home of the largest alumni club.

    Memphis is supposed to be starting a three-year series with Duke next season.
    UConn would generate good ratings.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    I would prefer to see us add a tough OOC opponent to this slot. I fondly remember the late season games with Arizona, UCLA, and Notre Dame from years past. A tough OOC game late in the season is a great emulator of Sweet 16 and Elite Eight match-ups.
    I think the ACC tourney is a great emulator of the Sweet 16/Elite 8. Our conference schedule is extremely challenging. As much as I'd love to see us w/ annual matchups w/ a UCLA or Kansas, I think it would ultimately hurt us in the NCAAs. If you believe K, fatigue has been a problem in recent years. Take a week (like the Holes are doing now), and recover.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty1911 View Post
    I think the ACC tourney is a great emulator of the Sweet 16/Elite 8.
    The ACC Tournament is fantastic. However, the difference is we are playing familar teams. The tough OOC opponent prepares us to face a quality opponent we are not familar with.
    Bob Green
    DBR Survivor Football Champion
    2010 & 2016

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Summit County, Colo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty1911 View Post
    As much as I'd love to see us w/ annual matchups w/ a UCLA or Kansas, I think it would ultimately hurt us in the NCAAs. If you believe K, fatigue has been a problem in recent years. Take a week (like the Holes are doing now), and recover.
    We played late-season hard nonconference games throughout the 1986-94 run of seven Final Fours. First Arizona, then Ucla then I think we added Temple (good back then) in 1994. Didn't seem to hurt.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    The ACC Tournament is fantastic. However, the difference is we are playing familar teams. The tough OOC opponent prepares us to face a quality opponent we are not familar with.
    I definitely see your point. Perhaps I'm overly influenced by the past few years where we seemed to hit the wall a little early. It's a trade-off. I would question whether you truly glean enough from that extra game to warrant the lack of rest in the middle of the ACC schedule. Obviously there's no "right" answer, so we'll have to rely on the experts. I think this is a bigger issue for teams like Memphis or top "mid-majors" who don't get steady competition from conference play. I definitely don't see any value in scheduling a weak OOC team.

  17. #17

    Bootsie

    For years, in Section 8 we would shout "Look out for Bootsie" when St. John's came, or other non-conference teams with a player giving an unexpected burst of excellence

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty1911 View Post
    I think the ACC tourney is a great emulator of the Sweet 16/Elite 8. Our conference schedule is extremely challenging. As much as I'd love to see us w/ annual matchups w/ a UCLA or Kansas, I think it would ultimately hurt us in the NCAAs. If you believe K, fatigue has been a problem in recent years. Take a week (like the Holes are doing now), and recover.
    I disagree. The argument has always been by late February, you are playing teams in the conference for the second time, and you aren't in large part seeing anything new. The conf tourney is your third time through some teams, which is even worse. Stepping out a few weeks before the tournament to play a new NCAA worthy opponent in an large arena is a very teachable moment, especially for Freshman who have never played in the tourney. Win, and it's a notch in your belt. Lose and, unlike the NCAA tournament, you don't end your season. Other than dropping a few spots nationally, it doesn't really impact you much at all. Low risk, high reward in my mind.

    However, for this to be effective I agree with you that it needs to be a quality opponent, which would be a perennial top 25/NCAA tournament team. There are very few teams in that category, and predicting future records is tough. Just look at Maryland, Kentucky, or Syracuse to see how fast things can change in just a couple of seasons.

    There are a number of other Big East teams that would be great matchups, with UConn being one I'd personally like to see.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St Augustine, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by gotham devil View Post
    It's disappointing, but hopefully Kevin White can arrange annual future games in the NY area, the current home of the largest alumni club.

    Memphis is supposed to be starting a three-year series with Duke next season.
    UConn would generate good ratings.
    Don't expect a series with UCONN any time soon. Let's just say their program is managed a bit differently than ours is managed.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Forest Hills, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty1911 View Post
    I definitely see your point. Perhaps I'm overly influenced by the past few years where we seemed to hit the wall a little early. It's a trade-off. I would question whether you truly glean enough from that extra game to warrant the lack of rest in the middle of the ACC schedule. Obviously there's no "right" answer, so we'll have to rely on the experts. I think this is a bigger issue for teams like Memphis or top "mid-majors" who don't get steady competition from conference play. I definitely don't see any value in scheduling a weak OOC team.
    If I remember correctly, Bootsie Thornton just killed us one year with his lefty jumper from the corner.

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