Coach Knight on Walking/Officials

[DukeDevilDeb]

Maybe my memory is bad, but last season, the PlayCaller promised us a segment where he was going to break down what Hans really does with his feet. I don't recall seeing it; maybe he did so, and I missed it. Anyone remember if he 'splained it all to us?

He never did! PlayCaller, where are you?

[Virginian]

If that were actually the travel rule we'd hardly ever see a legal break-away dunk.

That actually is the rule. You can look it up.

[Virginian]

This isn't correct. The first foot to hit the floor does not necessarily become the pivot foot, because the rules allow the player to leave the floor off that foot (before bringing the other one down) and come back down on both feet. From that position, neither foot may be used as a pivot foot.

In addition, a player may pick up their pivot foot without traveling as long as they don't return the pivot foot to the ground before releasing the ball. This is why you often see what looks like two steps on a drive--the first foot that comes down is the pivot foot, and the second foot to come down is the non-pivot foot; as long as the player releases the ball before bringing the pivot foot back down, no traveling has occurred.

See the rules for more details.

That's my point exactly: he's moving his pivot foot and jumping into the lane without shooting. It's only when he's jumped into the lane on both feet (a traveling violation ) that he then puts up a shot. The rules say he has to shoot BEFORE his feet hit the floor. And that's not what he does. The rules are quite clear; it's just that the refs never call the violation.

[greybeard]

In both, I see at most a borderline walk (drag of the ivot foot immediately preceding the shot. In Harsbrough's case, the way I see it, he starts his dribble backwards with his feet, stepping through with his right first and catching it before the left foot hits the ground. The right foot as I see it is his pivot foot. As I understand the rules, he can then move that left foot as many times as he likes; as long as the right foot pivots and does not move, no walk. Hansbrough turns back to the baseline with three left steps going clockwise, the first two the pivot foot seems rock solid. The third he might have lifted it a bit but it is hard to say for sure. I say it was a judgment call, that I wouldn't question. The video was not that clear and what with Knight talking about 5 steps and what not I had trouble discerning what the heck he was talking about. The only way Knight's commentary makes sense to me is if he saw Hansbrough lift the right foot while planting the left originally, or saw him lift it when going back. He didn't say it and I didn't see it.

The Oklahoma kid likewise established in my view his right foot as his pivot foot. His last step with his left might have caused the right foot to lift slightly off the floor or slide. Again hard to tell. Might have been easier to make that call than Hansbrough's.

I agree with Knight that too much walking goes uncalled but I do not see either of these as the major culprits. I see guards getting a running start off the catch, taking a full two plus when it should be a 1 plus. I see bigs shuffling all the time on put backs, especially dunks. And, I am completely flumexed by this rule about being able to step and then step again with your pivot foot before shooting the ball; ditto with a one-two (step-slide catching before the slide) jump and then jump again to shoot. To me both are walks.

Rule out the dunk and rule out bobby-ba;ll defense, which would be all that pushing and shoving everywhere on the court but mostly inside to impede a person's moving even without the ball and even away from the basket. You put your body on someone and impede movement, it's a foul. It always was until bobby's force of personality, and some thrown chairs, made it otherwise. Ruined the g-d damn game, he did, all by himself.

[captmojo]

Acknowledgment by Coach Knight is what we've all witnessed here for the last three years of watching the big guy in baby blue.

If the second foot hits the floor, without releasing possession of the ball though a pass or shot, the player has committed a traveling violation. It's that simple. This can be policed by officials with a coordinated effort of trailing refs watching steps while the one under the rim sees the action above the floor.

Also prevalent, but unmentioned, is the practice of rocking the pivot point back and forth between toe and heel, many times going uncalled.

[jv001]

Yes and carrying the ball has been made a point of interest but it's still done way too much. I can remember when your hand had to be almost on top of the ball when dribbling. There's no wonder players can't defend the drive or cross over. Bobby Hurley could dribble the ball without carrying it better than anyone I can remember. Go Duke!

[HoopsFan]

Elton Brand was great with the pivot. A lot of opposing fans would scream for a travel call, but replays showed he was just using the pivot very well. Sometimes, you may see a travel called when it was just a good pivot. I wonder if the refs find it too close to call when a player is moving so quickly it's hard to tell if it was a good pivot.

Now the Hansblah clip was just disgusting. I hope a lot of refs see the slo-mo breakdown.

I agree, to me it's just as irritating when they call a travel on a legal pivot as it is when they blow an obvious travel. I find that refs often call travel if something looks funny when in fact the pivot foot never moved.

[captmojo]

Good morning Jay! Please pass along our kudos to Coach Knight for his keen powers of observation.

[calltheobvious]

That actually is the rule. You can look it up.

I've actually read it hundreds of times over the years. And from the looks of one of your recent posts, you used the link a PP provided to check it out yourself and provide a case play that reflects a more accurate understanding of the rule.

[bjornolf]

I was going to point that out (about lifting but not putting the pivot foot back down). Otherwise, every jumpshot would be traveling. I am a little confused on what constitutes a "jumpstop" vs. a travel though. And if you jumpstop, you don't get a pivot foot? So, you can't move at all w/o traveling? I didn't know that. I could have sworn I've seen guys get away w/ that before. Cool.

[bjornolf]

On the other hand, I thought the TH example was a pretty obvious travel to me. He moved the left foot, establishing his right as the pivot foot, then lifted his right foot and put it back down once, thus traveling, then moved his left foot again, then lifted his right foot AGAIN and put it back down, thus traveling again, then moved his left foot once more before shooting. Bobby counted left, right, left, right, left, or five steps by his observation. I thought it could have been better explained than just "five steps", but the close-up replay clearly shows that he lifted and replanted his right, or pivot, foot twice in between swinging his left leg around. That's traveling. Twice by my count.

[RelativeWays]

I couldn't help it. I poked in on IC just to see if anyone brought this up and it was. One guy said "Well if Tyler hadn't been hacked, he wouldn't have to travel" and the rest latched on to it, like crazed sheep having a crisis of faith and looking for anything to justify their beliefs, they latched on to it. I couldn't believe it. Hole fans really are mindless sheep, the mascot is definitely fitting. None of them will ever entertain the thought that their beloved star player walks, gets phantom fouls, and best of all, flops like a fish for defense, which we're sooooo bad and evil about, right? They had another thread about the possibility of Jeff Capel being the next Duke coach and one guy said "no way, the crazies booed him his senior year, he won't coach there." The other sheep bleated in agreement. Did they conveniently forget that they did THE EXACT SAME THING TO HIS BROTHER SEVERAL TIMES, OR WHEN THEY BOOED KING RICE? I can deal with fans of a rival team, even an arch rival, but I can't deal with stupidity, and those people are quite stupid.

[Hancock 4 Duke]

That is how he gets EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS POINTS. Now that is just a problem with the NCAA refs. In the NBA, they wont have to take one blink on that stuff. And also everytime he gets it and scores, the refs "coincidentally" happen to call a defensive foul. There is something wrong with that kid. You can see it in his balloon eyes.

[Devilhawks]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=3837838

In the middle of the video, Knight spends about 30 seconds analyzing a blatant travel by Tyler, and complains that he and others get away with it frequently.

[greybeard]

On the other hand, I thought the TH example was a pretty obvious travel to me. He moved the left foot, establishing his right as the pivot foot, then lifted his right foot and put it back down once, thus traveling, then moved his left foot again, then lifted his right foot AGAIN and put it back down, thus traveling again, then moved his left foot once more before shooting. Bobby counted left, right, left, right, left, or five steps by his observation. I thought it could have been better explained than just "five steps", but the close-up replay clearly shows that he lifted and replanted his right, or pivot, foot twice in between swinging his left leg around. That's traveling. Twice by my count.

That was helpful. I looked at it again and saw the two walks, the second more obvious than the first.

Virginian, thanks for posting the rules. Also very helpful; I now understand the step/jump-stop/jump-shoot being legal. I got that right, it is legal, right?

[feldspar]

That had to be one of the most idiotic segments I've seen from Coach Knight.

Yes, Hansbrough clearly traveled. (Are we surprised?)

The problem with Knight's segment was that it was pretty obvious even he doesn't know what a travel is. He kept referring to "the number of steps taken," which is about the worst way (but the most common by fans and coaches) of determining whether a player has traveled or not.

The second example was not a travel. Griffin caught the ball and dribbled, then picked the ball up with his right foot as pivot, took a couple of steps with his non-pivot foot, then rotated his pivot foot (which Knight called a "step), then stepped through with his non-pivot foot and went up for a shot. Clearly not a travel.

The other problem with Knight's segment is that he was sitting on a couch watching SLOW MOTION REPLAY. Officials don't live in a world of slow motion replay, Coach. You see what you see, and you have a split-second to make a decision.

Not to mention that traveling is, by far, the hardest call in basketball. That's in my opinion, and the opinion of a heck of a lot of D-1 officials who I talk to.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

That had to be one of the most idiotic segments I've seen from Coach Knight.

Yes, Hansbrough clearly traveled. (Are we surprised?)

The problem with Knight's segment was that it was pretty obvious even he doesn't know what a travel is. He kept referring to "the number of steps taken," which is about the worst way (but the most common by fans and coaches) of determining whether a player has traveled or not.

The second example was not a travel. Griffin caught the ball and dribbled, then picked the ball up with his right foot as pivot, took a couple of steps with his non-pivot foot, then rotated his pivot foot (which Knight called a "step), then stepped through with his non-pivot foot and went up for a shot. Clearly not a travel.

The other problem with Knight's segment is that he was sitting on a couch watching SLOW MOTION REPLAY. Officials don't live in a world of slow motion replay, Coach. You see what you see, and you have a split-second to make a decision.

Not to mention that traveling is, by far, the hardest call in basketball. That's in my opinion, and the opinion of a heck of a lot of D-1 officials who I talk to.

I want to be sure that I understand what you said. Are you calling out Coach Knight?

[feldspar]

I want to be sure that I understand what you said. Are you calling out Coach Knight?

When it comes to announcing, no topic makes commentators (Knight included) seem less informed and more uneducated than when they start pontificating about the officiating. More often than not, they are flat-out wrong when it comes to their rules citations. It happens to the best of them.

I really like Knight as a color commentator. But he, like most commentators out there, don't do their homework when it comes to officiating.

[calltheobvious]

I want to be sure that I understand what you said. Are you calling out Coach Knight?

Feldsar fears no man...not even that one. Especially when that man is propagating silliness about basketball officiating.

Seriously, ESPN can't find anyone more credible to do these segments than the perpetrator in the most famous coach-referee altercation in the history of ever?

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

When it comes to announcing, no topic makes commentators (Knight included) seem less informed and more uneducated than when they start pontificating about the officiating. More often than not, they are flat-out wrong when it comes to their rules citations. It happens to the best of them.

I really like Knight as a color commentator. But he, like most commentators out there, don't do their homework when it comes to officiating.

What's the source of your expertise on the rules and officiating?