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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Charting Duke vs. Davidson

    More plus/minus fun. Today's surprise was Henderson, because I was totally frustrated watching him play. I knew he scored a number of points, but I thought he was a real ball-stopper on offense. I was getting really annoyed with his shot-selection and inability to see the floor on drives. But, despite all that, his plus/minus was far and away the best on the team. He had the benefit of being on the floor during most of Curry's stint on the bench, but that alone can't account for the disparity between G and the other guys. I suspect his defense made a big difference.

    On to the numbers...

    Individuals
    Gerald Henderson 66-50 (+16)
    Lance Thomas 50-40 (+10)
    Greg Paulus 66-59 (+7)
    Kyle Singler 58-55 (+3)
    Taylor King 25-24 (+1)
    Brian Zoubek 11-10 (+1)
    Nolan Smith 13-14 (-1)
    Jon Scheyer 55-57 (-2)
    Dave McClure 0-2 (-2)
    DeMarcus Nelson 51-54 (-3)

    Lineups

    Smith-Nelson-Henderson-Singler-Thomas 5-0 (+5)
    Paulus-Scheyer-Henderson-Singler-Thomas 7-3 (+4)
    Paulus-Nelson-Henderson-King-Thomas 7-4 (+3)
    Paulus-Scheyer-Henderson-King-Singler 7-4 (+3)
    Smith-Scheyer-Henderson-King-Zoubek 6-3 (+3)
    Paulus-Nelson-Henderson-Singler-Thomas x6 12-10 (+2)
    Paulus-Scheyer-Nelson-Singler-Thomas x3 11-10 (+1)
    Paulus-Scheyer-Henderson-King-Thomas 3-2 (+1)
    Paulus-Scheyer-Henderson-Thomas-Zoubek x2 5-5 (0)
    Smith-Scheyer-Nelson-Henderson-Thomas 0-0 (0)
    Paulus-Smith-Scheyer-Nelson-Singler 0-0 (0)
    Paulus-Scheyer-Nelson-Henderson-Singler x3 14-15 (-1)
    Smith-Scheyer-Nelson-King-Singler 2-3 (-1)
    Smith-Scheyer-Nelson-Singler-Thomas 0-2 (-2)
    Smith-Scheyer-Nelson-King-Thomas 0-2 (-2)
    Smith-Scheyer-Nelson-Henderson-Singler 0-2 (-2)
    Smith-Henderson-McClure-Thomas-Zoubek 0-2 (-2)
    Paulus-Scheyer-Nelson-King-Singler x2 0-6 (-6)

  2. #2

    Many thanks, Jumbo

    You put in a good deal of work on this--which I guess is essential to view the team from this perspective. Great effort!

    Question: the box shows little in stats for Thomas and Zoubek although between them they played right at 40 min. And, posters on the other thread remark how many layups the Davidson big men made.

    I know sometimes players whose stats are subdued can nevertheless be a steadying force, a kind of glue, that helps teammates make the points and RB's. You think this was case today with LT and BZ, or was that spot relatively unproductive for us?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by shadycharacter View Post
    You put in a good deal of work on this--which I guess is essential to view the team from this perspective. Great effort!

    Question: the box shows little in stats for Thomas and Zoubek although between them they played right at 40 min. And, posters on the other thread remark how many layups the Davidson big men made.

    I know sometimes players whose stats are subdued can nevertheless be a steadying force, a kind of glue, that helps teammates make the points and RB's. You think this was case today with LT and BZ, or was that spot relatively unproductive for us?
    On TV, the announcers did a great job of demonstrating how Duke's defensive focus on Curry was leaving Davidson's bigs open on the "slip screen." That wasn't really Thomas' fault -- the weakside defenders needed to do a better job of reading and reacting.
    I would say Zoubek did not play well. I was not as disappointed in Thomas as others were -- he was quite on the glass, but I thought his D wasn't bad.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Based on Coach K's compliments of Henderson after the game, I'd guess he wasn't too frustrated with Henderson's play. It appears that Coach K wants Henderson to create offense for himself when he has a favorable matchup. Or at least he doesn't seem to mind. I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that Henderson is maybe the best athlete (in the classical explosiveness/leaping ability sense - I don't want to start the "athlete argument") on the team, and as such he's given room to attack 1-on-1. When his shot is falling (or he's effectively getting to the rim), his role expands. When he's not scoring well, he gets fewer touches and takes fewer shots.

    While the passing isn't as fluid with Henderson as it is with Paulus or Scheyer, it also appears that this loss of fluidity didn't make the offense less efficient. Despite playing only 25 minutes, the team scored more points per minute with Henderson on the floor than with any of the other players. It also doesn't hurt that he's a fantastic transition defender (and solid defender overall) and he gets a fair amount of rebounds.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Henderson is maybe the best athlete (in the classical explosiveness/leaping ability sense - I don't want to start the "athlete argument") on the team
    Maybe? I'm not sure what exactly the "athlete argument" is, but there is no question in my mind that Henderson has the most extraordinary basketball athleticism on the squad. It's not even close.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeb View Post
    Maybe? I'm not sure what exactly the "athlete argument" is, but there is no question in my mind that Henderson has the most extraordinary basketball athleticism on the squad. It's not even close.
    I was merely playing it safe, en lieu of someone who might consider Nelson for that honor. I personally agree with you though.

    As for the "athlete argument," I was referring (somewhat tongue-in-cheek) to the old argument that is usually saved for someone like Paulus, when someone says Paulus isn't athletic. Some posters complain that people have limited views of athleticism, and don't consider things like court vision, balance, timing and strength when they assess athleticism. In this case, I specifically wanted to refer to athleticism in the primitive form of explosiveness and leaping ability.

    But yes, I agree with what you said.

  7. #7
    I take it for granted that when we're talking about athleticism with regards to Duke basketball, we're talking about athletic abilities that translate into advantages on the court. That rules out Lance Armstrong vs. Tiger Woods type of debates, but I guess it could still allow someone to argue about the various qualities you mention. (Hell, people can argue about anything on message boards.)

    Another way to look at it--if we took a poll of the Duke team and asked them if they could magically assume the athletic ability of one of their teammates, which player would they pick? I am guessing they would all choose Henderson.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeb View Post
    I take it for granted that when we're talking about athleticism with regards to Duke basketball, we're talking about athletic abilities that translate into advantages on the court. That rules out Lance Armstrong vs. Tiger Woods type of debates, but I guess it could still allow someone to argue about the various qualities you mention. (Hell, people can argue about anything on message boards.)

    Another way to look at it--if we took a poll of the Duke team and asked them if they could magically assume the athletic ability of one of their teammates, which player would they pick? I am guessing they would all choose Henderson.
    I completely agree. And you were not the type of person I was trying to head off with that statement. It was the "Paulus is really athletic" people that I was referencing (that HAS been an argument here in the past), and only in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way. It really shouldn't have been the key takeaway point of discussion from that post, and I'm kind of regretting putting that tongue-in-cheek comment in now.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Actually, I think Scheyer was the guy at the center of that debate...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukiedevil View Post
    Actually, I think Scheyer was the guy at the center of that debate...
    Actually, I think both have been at the center of two separate (but somewhat similar) debates. Scheyer has certainly also be the subject of the athletic/not athletic debate as well, with the arguments centering on different sets of pros/cons.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Louisville, KY

    Talking Good Thing

    Its a good thing you were able to head off the thread being hijacked by the "athlete" discussion.

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