Iverson to Pistons for Billups & McDyess

[BD80]

Reported by Stephen A Smith, not yet confirmed or finalized.

[sagegrouse]

Reported by Stephen A Smith, not yet confirmed or finalized.

Ah.... CU grad Chauncey Billups returns to Colorado to complete his career.

Good move, Nuggets!

sagegrouse

[Carlos]

Man... what were the Piston's thinking?

[BD80]

Man... what were the Piston's thinking?

Thinking that Chauncey has not been the player he once was and has 2 more years on his contract at $12 mil+. McDyess is a bargain at $6 mil, but his effectiveness is declining. There is a rumor that Denver will buy Dyess out and he will return to the Pistons.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_10887199

AI gets $22 mil, but this is the last year. There is always the option to resign him over the cap at he end of the year. AI can penetrate more than Chauncey, and is more athletic. Chauncey has slowed down a lot and has trouble staying with quicker guards. Can AI commit to playing Piston's D?

The Pistons can have trouble in the half court, AI cures that instantly.

AI also shakes things up and adds an urgency that has been missing.

Low risk (the Pistons have Rodney Stuckey set to replace Chauncey), potential very high up side and can clear cap space. Pistons need to resign Rip (who can opt out after this year) and Amir Johnson (high schooler with upside, has worked into the starting line-up). Good trade for the Pistons. In Joe we trust (don't say Darko, please).

Good deal for Denver too; going home should revitalize Chauncey, who will be a better point guard to facilitate Carmelo. High quality person that will help with the nimrods that are the Nuggets. Chauncey does deserve better than Karl for a coach.

[dukebluelemur]

More time at SG for Dahntay with AI gone? Or is he in danger because of the need to shed some roster space?

[blazindw]

1. Rodney "50 Cent" Stuckey is the point guard of the future and, soon, the present. He's the real deal and the team has full confidence in him. With him in the fold, the Pistons could afford to lose Billups, and they don't lose much with the acquisition of A.I.

2. Iverson is a proven go-to scorer, something that the Pistons have sorely needed the past few seasons in the playoffs.

3. Iverson also is in the last year of his contract, so they will free $20.8 million in salary to have that extra flexibility in cap room.

4. Word from Stephen A. is that McDyess, if this trade is finalized, would probably not even play for the Nuggets and would be released. If that's the case, he would be free to re-sign for the Pistons at a lower salary for the rest of the season. They did this with Lindsay Hunter in 2004 when they traded him and a few others to the Lakers. I think McDyess would have to wait 30 days though before he could re-sign with the Pistons.

4. A lineup of Iverson, Hamilton, Prince, Sheed and Amir Johnson, with Stuckey and Maxiell off the bench...that's a pretty formidable 1st 7.

This Pistons fan is sorry to see Chauncey and McDyess go. They were great for the team and really did well. I especially feel for McDyess, who tried so hard to get a title with us and fell short so many times. I hope if the rumors about him being released from the Nuggets are true so he can come back and finish what he started. I'm also glad to see A.I. finally in a Pistons uniform. If many of you remember, there was a trade between the Pistons and Sixers in 1997 (and I think the Hornets and Lakers) that would see 12 players be traded and Matt Geiger and A.I. would become Pistons and Jerry Stackhouse and Jerome Williams would go to the Sixers. The trade was done and Iverson was on his way to the airport to fly to Detroit to be introduced. Matt Geiger, at the very last second, refused to work his 15% trade kicker and invoked his no-trade clause, killing the deal. I'm glad that A.I. can now finally work his way into our lineup and help the Pistons compete for a title.

[weezie]

YIKES!!! Well, this sure is a refreshing change from election coverage. This Detroiter hates to see Mr. Big Shot packing his bags, much like Pudge Rodriguez and the Tigs, Chauncey was the heart of that team during their championship year, even if Ben Wallace was the face of the team.Wow...AI in the house...I wonder if that spice will meld with the gumbo already on the stove. Unlike my fellow southeastern MI pals above, I, for one, am relieved to see McDiggity hit the road...and I sure hope Joe D does NOT resign him later. We desperately need strong youth at that position, especially with Rasheed beginning the back end of his career. The extended season/playoffs/LeBron/Dwight games have taken their toll on the big man.

[Billy Dat]

A lot of people are also speculating that this is the start of cap clearing to get in line for the summer of Lebron in 2010.

[dukeENG2003]

the only problem with AI compared to Billups. . .


DEFENSE. AI is a crappy defender, I think this is a crappy deal for the Pistons except for the cap clearing part, although its pretty clear to me that the Nuggets will shed McDyess, considering they practically GAVE Marcus Camby away. . .

[Jeffrey]

Hi,

IMO, Denver got the better side of this trade. Clearly, better attitude goes Denver's direction as does better D. Anthony can now show how he may be the best scorer in the NBA and why he is Denver's offensive future. I think this could really move Denver up a couple levels and it will take Detroit down at least one.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

[BD80]

A lot of people are also speculating that this is the start of cap clearing to get in line for the summer of Lebron in 2010.

Won't Carmello, Wade, and Bosh be able to opt out as well?

What is the max contract for their tenure, $20 mil/yr to start?

It will be interesting to see how many teams clear that cap room and what rosters they have left to entice free agents.

I don't know if the Pistons will have cap room for Lebron, but they should have Rip, Tayshaun, Stuckey, Amir Johnson, Afflalo and Maxiell. Ooh, they could extend Kwame Brown and have 2 overall #1 picks by signing Lebron

[Carlos]

Thinking that Chauncey has not been the player he once was and has 2 more years on his contract at $12 mil+. McDyess is a bargain at $6 mil, but his effectiveness is declining. There is a rumor that Denver will buy Dyess out and he will return to the Pistons.

Billups averaged his second best scoring year last year, shot a career high from the field, and dished out his third highest assist total. I'm not sure he's had such a huge decline in his game.

The only ways this makes sense is that it does free up cap space for the Pistons next year and Rodney Stuckey has shown that he's talented enough to be a starter in the league so Billups was mildly expendable. But do the Pistons plan on playing Iverson at the point? He's never been a true point guard despite posting some lofty assist totals (and turnovers).

It will be interesting to see how the rest of the team adapts to going from a guy like Billups who was someone who operated within the flow of the offense to a guy who needs the ball in his hands and takes roughly twice as many shots from the field.

[BD80]

I don't know if the Pistons will have cap room for Lebron, but they should have Rip, Tayshaun, Stuckey, Amir Johnson, Afflalo and Maxiell. Ooh, they could extend Kwame Brown and have 2 overall #1 picks by signing Lebron

True Hoop / ESPN is stating that the Pistons will have cap space for TWO max contracts in 2010, with a group of available free agents which will include: LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire, Ray Allen, Tyson Chandler, Manu Ginobili, Richard Jefferson, Joe Johnson, Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming, Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki and Michael Redd.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/...kes-Again.html

The Pistons have extended Maxiell at $5 mil / year and just today extended Rip at $11 mil/yr. With Tay, Stuckey and Afflalo, that is a total of $32 mil in contracts for 2010. They can wait to resign Amir Johnson until they sign the 2 max free agents in 2010, say James and and Bosh. Or they can add one free agent in 2009 (Boozer?) and one in 2010. Hmm, maybe Joe knows what he is doing.

[weezie]

In all deference to those who obviously know their hoops here, LBJ has absolutely no intention of renting a condo in the "D" after his CLE contract runs the course. It's the Brooklyn Nets all the way for himself, he'll be getting a stake in the team, or so some are hinting.
Dumars must have something else up his sleeve. His kingdom for a true, thick forward.

Bosh as Piston?! Be still my heart!!!!!!!!

[RainingThrees]

The main question for the pistons is who will play point? AI will have to because Rip will be at the 2. The problem with that is that AI is more of a 2 in a 1's body and will have to learn a whole new system on the fly as well. Denver doesn't need anymore scorers and benefits the most from this deal.

[blazindw]

In all deference to those who obviously know their hoops here, LBJ has absolutely no intention of renting a condo in the "D" after his CLE contract runs the course. It's the Brooklyn Nets all the way for himself, he'll be getting a stake in the team, or so some are hinting.
Dumars must have something else up his sleeve. His kingdom for a true, thick forward.

Bosh as Piston?! Be still my heart!!!!!!!!

Weezie, I think that would be awesome if Bosh came to the 'Stones in 2010! LeBron is going to NJ/Brooklyn or the Knicks. Wade is also another possibility, but not as long as we got Rip. If not Bosh, Yao would be interesting. There's a ton of connections between Detroit and China, and several of the nation's direct flights to China operate out of Detroit. As a result, Detroit gets a lot of Chinese tourists (the three languages of the airport are English, French and Mandarin). I don't think it will happen, but I will be very happy with Bosh in the fold!

[BD80]

Billups averaged his second best scoring year last year, shot a career high from the field, and dished out his third highest assist total. I'm not sure he's had such a huge decline in his game.

... But do the Pistons plan on playing Iverson at the point? He's never been a true point guard despite posting some lofty assist totals (and turnovers).

It will be interesting to see how the rest of the team adapts to going from a guy like Billups who was someone who operated within the flow of the offense to a guy who needs the ball in his hands and takes roughly twice as many shots from the field.

Chauncey's drop-off has not been dramatic on the offensive end, particularly since his shooting has improved. However, Chauncey is no longer able to create his own shot as consistently and he does not penetrate nearly as much as he used to. As 'Sheed tends to float to the perimeter and Rip is one of the NBA's best perimeter shooters, the Pistons need someone who can penetrate and break down defenses. AI should help on offense.

Chauncey is noticeably slower on D than he was a few years ago, causing a lot of help switching to head off quick PGs that blow by him. The Pistons no longer have someone like Ben Wallace to cover up for such mistakes. There is hope that Amir Johnson will develop into a similar defensive presence.

That said, Karl and Nugget fans will love Chauncey. He will help the team work together and he will play very well with Melo. You may see Melo initiate the offense more once Chauncey brings the ball downcourt and sets up the play.

The big issue is how AI will fit in with the Pistons. He will have to guard the PG when Stuckey is not on the court. Let's say that will be interesting. At $21 mil they should be able to expect some D, right? I mean its not like we're talking about practice.

On offense, AI will blend in beautifully. AI can create, while the rest of the team are more catch and shoot players. That is why the team is so high on Stuckey, he can actually get into the lane. In the playoffs, we need somebody that can create his own shot, and AI is The Answer.

[greybeard]

The emporer has no cloths. That would be Mr. Dumars.

The beginning of the end came long ago, when Dumars dumped Larry, laying the blame wrongly at his feet, in favor of Sanders. The reason that Dumars did that was because he was tired of being a number 2, first to Zeke and then to Larry. He wanted the credit for bringing another championship to Detroit, and so dumped Larry, whom he first had to trash with the nonsense about disloyalty etc (why did they give permission to the Cleveland owner to talk to Larry and what was Larry to make of that move except to think that they were showing him the door which they were), and bring in a vanilla coach so that when they won, Dumars, not the coach, would get the credit.

Only problem was that Larry made all the players smarter, not just in a meta sense, but as a bench coach, where he exceled. People might be as good, but nobody is better than Larry in spotting little ways to tweak things for each player during a game (we're talking playoff basketball here) to give a guy an edge.

"Okay, Greybeard, so what does this have to do with the trade?" Patience, sports fans, we're about to get there.

So, LB made all of the Postons who played for him m,uch better in the meta sense, and that would include ou boy Billups right up there at the top of the list, but come crunch time, and that would be playoff basketball, guess what? They, and especially Billups, did not have that little extra. They just didn't. LB won them that championship, even though none of them could admit it, and the talking heads, well they just yodel as Larry's boy Tony would say.

So, the truth is, that while the Pistons had a window with several, or at least one more championship within reach after the first, Dumars closed the window when he dumped LB. He also sowed the seeds for the most recent move to dissemble what was one of the great TEAMS of this era before it embarassed themselves any further.

See, Billups is still in denial, thinking that it was all him, and none of the coach, that won him that championship. Dumars now knows better, having watched Billups and Rip and Sheed and whomever get out clevered down the stretch in the playoffs when bench-coaching counts. They were all oh so average.

And now, with the Pistons just a shadow of their old selves, Dumars needs to keep fans in the stands and have a scape goat. Both are provided by AI. He will bring fans in; he will make it possible to move other "stars"--say goodnight Rip, we hardly knew ye--and then Dumars will dump AI and say something truly stupid that the talking heads will believe like, "Gee, it just didn't work out so we'll keep Prince, and Maxwell, and the young guard, and build around them."

The truth is that they will.

But the truth also is that Dumars blew Detroit's best opportunity for multiple championships because, like his boy Zeke, he needed to be the star. LB didn't do stars, he just helped his team get the most out of themselves within concepts that represent the best in the game. For that, Dumars ran Brown out of town. Now, it seems to me, it is time for him to go.

[sagegrouse]

The emporer has no cloths. That would be Mr. Dumars.

The beginning of the end came long ago, when Dumars dumped Larry, laying the blame wrongly at his feet, in favor of Sanders. The reason that Dumars did that was because he was tired of being a number 2, first to Zeke and then to Larry....

So, LB made all of the Postons who played for him m,uch better in the meta sense, and that would include ou boy Billups right up there at the top of the list, but come crunch time, and that would be playoff basketball, guess what? They, and especially Billups, did not have that little extra. They just didn't. LB won them that championship, even though none of them could admit it, and the talking heads, well they just yodel as Larry's boy Tony would say.

"Larry's boy Tony" has had a lot to say about Larry Brown., and it differs substantially from the direction and tone of your post. To the question of why LB keeps changing jobs, Kornheiser has said on more than one occasion the following: "After a while, he starts to hate the players, and they hate him. Then it is time for Larry to move on." Larry Brown has worn out his welcome pretty much everywhere he has been -- especially recently. But I believe the 2004 Olympics team set the record -- it took about two weeks.

I don't know a thing about Joe Dumars, except that he has a lot of people fooled, if your account is accurate: every one outside of Detroit seems to hold him in high regard. However bad and scheming as he may be, there is no way he could be as a bad a basketball executive as Michael Jordan. With the Wizards MJ chose and signed Kwame Brown with the #1 overall pick; since Kwame's main problem seems to be that he has no mind for basketball (or anything else), it seems that this could have been discovered during the evaluation process. He also traded Rip Hamilton to the Pistons so (I believe) that he wouldn't have to share minutes with Rip during his last season or so with the Wiz. And I won't repeat the junk he has done with Charlotte, which is detailed in the thread on Sean May.

ssagegrouse

[BD80]

The emporer has no cloths. That would be Mr. Dumars.
...

But the truth also is that Dumars blew Detroit's best opportunity for multiple championships because, like his boy Zeke, he needed to be the star. LB didn't do stars, he just helped his team get the most out of themselves within concepts that represent the best in the game. For that, Dumars ran Brown out of town. Now, it seems to me, it is time for him to go.

Well, the Emperor, Mr. Dumars, certainly has clothes.

What on earth makes you think that Larry Brown could have taken the Pistons to a second championship? Where in his extensive track record has Larry ever been able to get a team to the peak and maintain the team at that level?

LB has a horrendous track record of lasting with teams. Even players that like him are glad to see him leave. The relief around the Pistons when LB was sent packing was palpable. It certainly wasn't LB's coaching that got the Pistons into the finals in '05: they only won 54 games and were down 2-1 against Indiana and Miami in the playoffs. It is virtually certain the Pistons would not have won another title with LB. Were they better off with Sanders? That is open for debate. The Pistons did average 59 wins in the regular season and advanced to the conference final each of Sanders' 3 years, losing to the eventual champion 2 of those 3 years.

Where do you get this impression that Joe D is driven by ego? It is completely contradicted by his NBA career, the esteem with which he is held in the NBA community, and the feeling around the Pistons organization. There is absolutely NO evidence to support the conclusion that Joe D is driven by ego or that he "blew" anything, particularly by letting LB go. When Joe took over he had nothing, no high draft picks and no players. Grant Hill was leaving via free agency. The Pistons might have the highest winning percentage in the NBA since he took over.

If you want to talk ego, stick with Larry Brown, or his "boss" MJ. Joe D is at the other end of the spectrum.