John Wall Recruitment

[Edouble]

I guess you are his neighbor, so you must have some sort of inside scoop, but I am really suprised that there are people that still think that Gerald is going pro after this season based on what we've seen so far this year.

[CameronCrazy'11]

I guess you are his neighbor, so you must have some sort of inside scoop, but I am really suprised that there are people that still think that Gerald is going pro after this season based on what we've seen so far this year.

That coupled with the fact that in interviews Gerald routinely says things like "over my next two years..." I think he seems to have a four-year mindset. The fact that next year's Duke team can be downright nasty is also an incentive to stay.

[heyman25]

Unless Henderson starts scoring near 20 a game for the rest of the season,he is not a lottery pick, He doesn't have a great handle,its actually mediocre.How can he be in the NBA at the 2 guard when he is vulnerable to a steal every time he puts the ball on the floor.I guess he has the big upside,but there are many guards in the NCAA that shoot and handle the ball well. Gerald may have the best jumping ability in the nation,but he better turn it on from January to the end of the season. I think everyone returns except the graduating class. Pocius may leave if he has opportunities away from Duke.

[geraldsneighbor]

I guess you are his neighbor, so you must have some sort of inside scoop, but I am really suprised that there are people that still think that Gerald is going pro after this season based on what we've seen so far this year.

Dude chill, I was just saying we would be fortunate to have everyone back we would be set for a great season regardless over a decision of an unproven freshmen...although he probably he is very good. I think G should stay and probably will since he is very raw with his all around game and would really benefit from a 4th season.

[jv001]

I know that John Wall is a great talent, but to say he would start on this years team is a leap. I remember many posts before the season began that said E-Will would start and some even said that Olek would play many mins. Well we see how that has turned out. We don't know how high school kids will adapt to college bb. I certainly think John Wall would play many mins but I don't even know if he would start on next years team. If Nolan continues to improve he will start next year. If Zoubs continues to improve he will start next year. From what I'v heard from many Wall is a great talent but does not have much discipline with the ball as most truly great pt guards. I've not seen him play so I can't make that comment. IMO I don't think we land John Wall. Hope I'm wrong. Go Duke!

[sagegrouse]

I know that John Wall is a great talent, but to say he would start on this years team is a leap. I remember many posts before the season began that said E-Will would start and some even said that Olek would play many mins. Well we see how that has turned out. We don't know how high school kids will adapt to college bb. I certainly think John Wall would play many mins but I don't even know if he would start on next years team. If Nolan continues to improve he will start next year. If Zoubs continues to improve he will start next year. From what I'v heard from many Wall is a great talent but does not have much discipline with the ball as most truly great pt guards. I've not seen him play so I can't make that comment. IMO I don't think we land John Wall. Hope I'm wrong. Go Duke!

Amen to all of the above. If freshman Wall is the best player on the Duke team, he will start and play 30+ minutes. But the last time a freshman was the best player on the team was JD -- when the cupboard was bare. Tough to be the best player on this Duke team as a freshman, considering the competition and what it takes to contribute to a K team on defense and offense.

In any event, finding 20-30 minutes for a phenomenal talent sounds like a nice problem to have as a coach. And given his management of the talent on the Olympic team, this should be a snap for K: "If Chris Paul could come off the bench for me, so can you."

sagegrouse
'Yeah, Elton was probably the best player on the 1997-98 team, but he played only 21 of 36 games (foot). Besides, Wojo, Trajan and Roshown were pretty good'

'And Happy New Year to all, before I forget'

[Tim1515]

Amen to all of the above. If freshman Wall is the best player on the Duke team, he will start and play 30+ minutes. But the last time a freshman was the best player on the team was JD -- when the cupboard was bare. Tough to be the best player on this Duke team as a freshman, considering the competition and what it takes to contribute to a K team on defense and offense.

In any event, finding 20-30 minutes for a phenomenal talent sounds like a nice problem to have as a coach. And given his management of the talent on the Olympic team, this should be a snap for K: "If Chris Paul could come off the bench for me, so can you."

sagegrouse
'Yeah, Elton was probably the best player on the 1997-98 team, but he played only 21 of 36 games (foot). Besides, Wojo, Trajan and Roshown were pretty good'

'And Happy New Year to all, before I forget'

Well not exactly true. You could make the argument that Singler was the best player on last year's team...and he saw a ton of minutes and started from day 1.

The difference there however was the obvious need for him to start because of the players on our team.

I'm shocked to hear people already giving Wall the starting PG spot. Sure there is a lot of talent...much like E-Will this year though. Wall is fast but how many turnovers do you expect? He's an average shooter and we don't know much about his defense. If i had to guess i would say he gets an above average amount of steals and blocks for a PG but probably doesn't play structured defense (required at Duke).

I believe Wall's high school team is something like 6-5. How can a player so dominant that he would start year 1 at Duke over a talented junior in Nolan Smith not be able to lead his high school team to a better record?

[sagegrouse]

Well not exactly true. You could make the argument that Singler was the best player on last year's team...and he saw a ton of minutes and started from day 1.

The difference there however was the obvious need for him to start because of the players on our team.

I'm shocked to hear people already giving Wall the starting PG spot. Sure there is a lot of talent...much like E-Will this year though. Wall is fast but how many turnovers do you expect? He's an average shooter and we don't know much about his defense. If i had to guess i would say he gets an above average amount of steals and blocks for a PG but probably doesn't play structured defense (required at Duke).

I believe Wall's high school team is something like 6-5. How can a player so dominant that he would start year 1 at Duke over a talented junior in Nolan Smith not be able to lead his high school team to a better record?

You and I are in total agreement on John Wall.

Re a freshman as the best player on a Duke team: I hadn't considered whether Singler was the best player on last year's team. A close call, but I might give the edge to Markiem who was 1st team All-ACC and had a slight advantage in statistics over Kyle. No question, though; Kyle was one of the best freshmen to play at Duke.

sagegrouse

[ncexnyc]

I believe Wall's high school team is something like 6-5. How can a player so dominant that he would start year 1 at Duke over a talented junior in Nolan Smith not be able to lead his high school team to a better record?

What's the name of the kid that plays for Davidson?
Honestly, Wall would have to be a truly awesome talent to knock Nolan out of a starting job and Nolan isn't exactly a slouch as he gets better and better as the season progresses.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I believe Wall's high school team is something like 6-5. How can a player so dominant that he would start year 1 at Duke over a talented junior in Nolan Smith not be able to lead his high school team to a better record?

I'm not sure I've heard anyone suggest that Wall would start over Nolan. The lineups I've seen have them starting beside each other as complementary point guards a la JWill and Duhon (although neither is even close to that good quite yet). Wall doesn't have to be the best player on the team, just one of the best 5. I'm not sure he'll be that in December, but if he lives up to his rep he will be by March.

There are so many scenarios where Wall should start: if anyone goes pro, if Nolan gets injured or sick, if Kyle continues to bulk up and can play the 5 most nights, if he does bring PG skills that make him indispensable (and as much as I love what Nolan brings, he ain't a real PG yet), etc. But I think we can all agree that we have a major hole at PG beyond Nolan, so every second that Nolan isn't on the court there is unquestionably time for Wall.

Wall is a unique talent and he plays at a position that is vital and where we go 1 deep. If he is as good as advertised he'll get major minutes and have a very good chance to start. More than that he'll be an impact player for us on the court and a major recruiting coup for our reputation.

[Tim1515]

What's the name of the kid that plays for Davidson?
Honestly, Wall would have to be a truly awesome talent to knock Nolan out of a starting job and Nolan isn't exactly a slouch as he gets better and better as the season progresses.

I'm not sure i understand this statement. Curry's high school team won state titles...they didn't start 6-5. Plus Wall does have another D1 player on his on team.

[Tim1515]

I'm not sure I've heard anyone suggest that Wall would start over Nolan. The lineups I've seen have them starting beside each other as complementary point guards a la JWill and Duhon (although neither is even close to that good quite yet). Wall doesn't have to be the best player on the team, just one of the best 5. I'm not sure he'll be that in December, but if he lives up to his rep he will be by March.

There are so many scenarios where Wall should start: if anyone goes pro, if Nolan gets injured or sick, if Kyle continues to bulk up and can play the 5 most nights, if he does bring PG skills that make him indispensable (and as much as I love what Nolan brings, he ain't a real PG yet), etc. But I think we can all agree that we have a major hole at PG beyond Nolan, so every second that Nolan isn't on the court there is unquestionably time for Wall.

Wall is a unique talent and he plays at a position that is vital and where we go 1 deep. If he is as good as advertised he'll get major minutes and have a very good chance to start. More than that he'll be an impact player for us on the court and a major recruiting coup for our reputation.

I actually have heard people placing Wall in the starting lineup with Nolan, Jon and Hendo all staying. The reasoning was "he's just too good not to start".

The problem i see is that too many people are comparing him to Rose and assuming he's the same player...he's not. Sure there are a ton of similarities...both are quick (Wall might be quicker) both are average shooters at best...both are great athletes...etc.

One major difference...Rose's high school team maybe lost what 2 games all year. Rose was a leader...he had the intangibles you can't always teach. He could and would do whatever the team needed to win...EVERY night.

I'm not saying Wall doesn't have some of that...i've never seen him play...but his talents aren't off-setting his flaws which obviously Rose was able to do. I really think John would have a huge learning curve going to Duke...or even Memphis or Baylor...but at those programs he'd be given much more freedom and might "look" like a bigger star as a freshman. At Duke i truly believe he'd become a better player.

[Jumbo]

Here's why this is a silly conversation. There is very little chance that both G and Wall will be on the team next year. Even if you think Duke has a good shot at Wall (and he hasn't even been offered a scholarship yet), it's still well below a 50% chance. And I'd put the odds of G turning pro at greater than 50%. We should be so lucky to have the problem of figuring out who starts. Just having one of them on the team next year would be nice.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I actually have heard people placing Wall in the starting lineup with Nolan, Jon and Hendo all staying. The reasoning was "he's just too good not to start".

Maybe I misunderstood, I thought you were saying that he would have to start "over" Nolan. He probably won't send Nolan to the bench, but he doesn't have to. He and Nolan can both start and I think by the end of the season that's exactly what will happen.

One major difference...Rose's high school team maybe lost what 2 games all year. Rose was a leader...he had the intangibles you can't always teach. He could and would do whatever the team needed to win...EVERY night.

I don't know enough about Wall's game to say if he has the intangibles to be a leader from day 1. I do know that he can be a floor leader in the sense of running the offense and creating shots for other players on a regular basis. Think about what Duhon did in '01. Battier was clearly the "leader" of the team but CDu and JWill ran the offense. I think Wall (PG) and Nolan (combo) could do something similar as creators even if they aren't the "leader" in the sense I think you are using the term.

I'm not saying Wall doesn't have some of that...i've never seen him play...but his talents aren't off-setting his flaws which obviously Rose was able to do. I really think John would have a huge learning curve going to Duke...or even Memphis or Baylor...but at those programs he'd be given much more freedom and might "look" like a bigger star as a freshman. At Duke i truly believe he'd become a better player.

I totally agree that Wall would be a better player at Duke. I think he has a great opportunity to find the sort of discipline as a player and as a man that he seems to have lacked early on and that he has benefited from recently. Frankly, just by choosing Duke he'd be making a major statement about his maturity and willingness to commit to hard work and a team concept rather than taking the lazy path at somewhere like Memphis.

I'm high on Wall as a player and for what he would mean to Duke. But I'm also really enthusiastic because I think this is a situation where Wall could really change his life for the better, not just hang his hat for a year at some basketball factory. Maybe I'm being presumptuous or naive, but I think Wall would have a fairly small learning curve on the court. I think his real education would be the growing up he could do under K. As I've said before, I really hope we get a chance to find out.

[UrinalCake]

Regarding Wall starting over Smith, let's just say for the sake of argument that that does happen. What would that do to future recruits, to know that Coach K had essentially recruited over a player? I understand that no one is guaranteed playing time, and my understanding is that Coach K tells any recruit, no matter how talented, that he will have to earn his minutes... but still, knowing there is a chance they could be put in Smith's position could make someone not one to come to Duke.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I'm not sure how bringing in a freshman PG when we have 1 Sr. SG (Jon) one Soph 2-3 combo (Email) and one Jr. PG/SG combo (Nolan) is over-recruiting. Even if you don't think they can play side-by-side (which, for the tenth time, most folks think they can) is having a Fr. backup with a Jr. SG converted to PG really that rare or disrespectful? How would you describe UNC having Sr. Frasior, Jr. Lawson and Fr. Drew along with SG's Ellington, Ginyard & Green? Is that "recruiting over" hurting their recruiting? McDonald, Strickland, Bullock, and Marshall don't seem to think so.

[Carlos]

I believe Wall's high school team is something like 6-5. How can a player so dominant that he would start year 1 at Duke over a talented junior in Nolan Smith not be able to lead his high school team to a better record?

That's a ridiculous argument. Word of God has Wall and one other highly rated guy in CJ Leslie. In addition they have another guy (Dezmine Wells) who is a borderline mid-major prospect as a sophomore. But outside of Leslie they have little size and they've been playing an absurdly aggressive schedule.

Their losses this season have been to:

• Greensboro, NC Dudley - always one of the state's top programs and featuring sophomore PJ Hairston who is already drawing interest from major programs around the country.
  
• Wilson, NC Greenfield - This is the game where Wall, Leslie, and Wells were all suspended. WOG lost by 33 points.
  
• Elizabeth City, NJ St. Patrick - This is not one of the top programs in the State of NJ, it's one of the top programs in the country. Despite playing without UNC signee Dexter Strickland, St. Patrick still has Michael Gilchrist (a 6-6 SF and the #2 player in the 2011 class), Paris Bennett (another 6-6 guy who is heading to George Mason), and Kyrie Irving (2010 PG being targeted by a number of Big East programs).
  
• Jacksonville, FL Arlington Country Day - All they've done is win 4 straight state championships. They feature 6-9 Wally Judge who is the #4 PF in the 2009 class and 6-4 Rodney McGruder. Both guys have scholarships to Kansas State. They also have another guy who is a mid-major target. (Note - ACD accounted for 2 of WOG's losses.)
  
• Los Angeles, CA Westchester - Another major program with 6-6 Dwayne Polee (USC commitment) and two guys who are mid-major targets.

Wall is ranked no worse than 3rd by almost every service out there. Since the draft age limit went into place with the HS class of 2006 there has been exactly one guy in the top 3 rankings who didn't step in and start in his freshman year (Brandan Wright).

[Tim1515]

I'm not sure how bringing in a freshman PG when we have 1 Sr. SG (Jon) one Soph 2-3 combo (Email) and one Jr. PG/SG combo (Nolan) is over-recruiting. Even if you don't think they can play side-by-side (which, for the tenth time, most folks think they can) is having a Fr. backup with a Jr. SG converted to PG really that rare or disrespectful? How would you describe UNC having Sr. Frasior, Jr. Lawson and Fr. Drew along with SG's Ellington, Ginyard & Green? Is that "recruiting over" hurting their recruiting? McDonald, Strickland, Bullock, and Marshall don't seem to think so.

While I don't disagree with this for the most part...a lot of the difference is that UNC and Duke recruit differently. That being said. Lawson is/was a star recruit. Frasor and Drew were both 4* recruits if i remember and considered high quality backups. Green is much more of a SF and while Ginyard was pretty highly recruited it was obvious by the time Ellington came around that he would start.

I think the hard part is that Nolan wants to be a PG...not a SG because he'll need to be a PG if he's going to make the NBA. Now does that mean K will be afraid to move him to SG in fear of making him angry...no...but it could indeed turn Nolan off and his game could suffer. I'm also not convinced Wall's style will mixed 100% with what K and Duke likes to do for 30 minutes a game...he'll have some learning to do and if he picks Duke then he'll obviously be ready to accept that...even if he starts.

K has typically given players the stage when he recruits them. At the same time someone like Tyler Thornton is different. I don't believe K is afraid to "recruit over" him because he'll be at Duke for 4 years and seems to already understand his furture role. Nolan...as a Junior...would most likely react different...same could be said for Jon and Gerald as seniors.

Duke seems to really need a PG for next year because Nolan will be our only one...whether it's Wall or more of a backup option...i hope the staff figures something out.

[Duvall]

Wait, I thought we were worried because Duke was only going to have three wing players next year? Now we're overrecruiting? I'm so confused.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

But why can't Wall and Nolan play side-by-side? In 2002 JWill (5.3) and CDu (5.1) both averaged over 5 assists per game. The year before JWill had 6.1 and CDu had 4.5. Having two great distributors in the backcourt isn't some crazy scheme, it's a very viable strategy that will make both guys look really good. JWill didn't have much trouble getting drafted even as the "SG" side of the combo as Nolan would be.

For recruiting, UNC and Duke have been recruiting differently as of late and it has showed on the court. Frasor was a McDonald's All American who was recruited by a ton of major programs and started as a freshman. Roy still had no trouble bringing in a superstar PG over him (and poor QT) the very next season. We have much less talent in the backcourt and a successful blueprint from using multiple guards in a variety of ways. Calling this "overrecruiting" is ridiculous on its face and strike me as UNC talking points to try to knock Duke.