Vocabulary quiz

[dkbaseball]

One hundred percent of a class of 30 Tulane freshmen and sophomores had no idea what any of the following four words meant:

mammon
sophistry
popinjay
zeitgeist

Am I totally out of touch being stunned by this? Would mild surprise be an acceptable reaction? Or are all these words just lost for good in our post-literate culture, like so many others?

[snowdenscold]

One hundred percent of a class of 30 Tulane freshmen and sophomores had no idea what any of the following four words meant:

mammon
sophistry
popinjay
zeitgeist

Am I totally out of touch being stunned by this? Would mild surprise be an acceptable reaction? Or are all these words just lost for good in our post-literate culture, like so many others?

I don't know what popinjay means.

[dukemomLA]

A popinjay is a bird -- kinda like a parrot.

[bjornolf]

A popinjay is a bird -- kinda like a parrot.

It is? I thought it was an insulting term for a fop. I thought it was a term for parrot, but that that definition fell off a LONG time ago.

[dkbaseball]

It is? I thought it was an insulting term for a fop. I thought it was a term for parrot, but that that definition fell off a LONG time ago.

Fop is pretty close for popinjay, which my dictionary defines as a strutting, supercilious person. The Brits still have many of these lost words close to hand, and can enjoy an especially scintillating insult from time to time, such as when George Galloway told an annoying Christopher Hitchens: "You are a drink-soaked, ex-Trotskyite popinjay. Your hands are shaking. You badly need another drink."

[hurleyfor3]

Such is the sophistry of the zeitgeist that these popinjays know not even of the Mammon they worship.

[dkbaseball]

Such is the sophistry of the zeitgeist that these popinjays know not even of the Mammon they worship.

Amen, brother Hurley.

[bjornolf]

Isn't that a misuse of either sophistry or zeitgeist? Either one could work here, but I believe it would require the replacement, or at least qualification, of the other. There could be sophistry committed by those perpetuating the zeitgeist, but I didn't think such an abstraction as the feel of an era or attitude of a culture would be capable of sophism. Maybe I'm confused here.

[dkbaseball]

Isn't that a misuse of either sophistry or zeitgeist? Either one could work here, but I believe it would require the replacement, or at least qualification, of the other. There could be sophistry committed by those perpetuating the zeitgeist, but I didn't think such an abstraction as the feel of an era or attitude of a culture would be capable of sophism. Maybe I'm confused here.

I think it works. It's like saying, "the greed of the Gilded Age." Technically, an age isn't greedy, a person is, but everyone understands the implied word "characteristic between "greed" and "of." Similarly there is an implied "characteristic" between "sophistry" and "of the zeitgeist." I thought it was a pretty clever use of all four words, and rather apt for zeitgeist USA circa 2008.

[2535Miles]

I'm down with zeitgeist.

I think Earljam should write a song containing these four words.

[bjornolf]

I think it works. It's like saying, "the greed of the Gilded Age." Technically, an age isn't greedy, a person is, but everyone understands the implied word "characteristic between "greed" and "of." Similarly there is an implied "characteristic" between "sophistry" and "of the zeitgeist." I thought it was a pretty clever use of all four words, and rather apt for zeitgeist USA circa 2008.

Are we using the modern, misguided definition or the more traditional, staid definition. One way, you're saying that the overall theme if you will of our lives right now is people using subtle untruths to trick us. The other way, you're saying that the overall theme our times right now is people tricking others with confusing and illogical arguments into supporting ridiculous and fantastical conclusions. I can only assume either way that you are referring to both sides of the presidential race? In which case, okay, I can go for that. I'm not sure if something as basically "small" in our everyday lives as that should be given such grandiose credit as being labeled the zeitgeist, especially since it will only last for about eight months in the national spotlight, but okay. Don't get me wrong, the choice of our next president is critical, but I doubt most people outside politics and the media spend more than half an hour a day, IF THAT, thinking about it, far less than they spend worrying about their fantasy football lineup for the next Sunday (and no, I don't play). Anyway, if you feel that sophism is really the current zeitgeist, then I'm not sure whether I feel more sorry for you in your jaded world, or me for wearing blinders. Are you saying that the basic underlying slant of our culture today is, when you boil it down to its base components, really just a bunch of lies? That's a pretty serious decouncement of our society as a whole. Yipes. I guess it's time for me to load the gun and climb in the bunker...

[Turk]

Are we using the modern, misguided definition or the more traditional, staid definition. One way, you're saying that the overall theme if you will of our lives right now is people using subtle untruths to trick us. The other way, you're saying that the overall theme our times right now is people tricking others with confusing and illogical arguments into supporting ridiculous and fantastical conclusions. I can only assume either way that you are referring to both sides of the presidential race? In which case, okay, I can go for that. I'm not sure if something as basically "small" in our everyday lives as that should be given such grandiose credit as being labeled the zeitgeist, especially since it will only last for about eight months in the national spotlight, but okay. Don't get me wrong, the choice of our next president is critical, but I doubt most people outside politics and the media spend more than half an hour a day, IF THAT, thinking about it, far less than they spend worrying about their fantasy football lineup for the next Sunday (and no, I don't play). Anyway, if you feel that sophism is really the current zeitgeist, then I'm not sure whether I feel more sorry for you in your jaded world, or me for wearing blinders. Are you saying that the basic underlying slant of our culture today is, when you boil it down to its base components, really just a bunch of lies? That's a pretty serious decouncement of our society as a whole. Yipes. I guess it's time for me to load the gun and climb in the bunker...

"Truly you have a dizzying intellect..."

[dkbaseball]

Are we using the modern, misguided definition or the more traditional, staid definition. One way, you're saying that the overall theme if you will of our lives right now is people using subtle untruths to trick us. The other way, you're saying that the overall theme our times right now is people tricking others with confusing and illogical arguments into supporting ridiculous and fantastical conclusions. I can only assume either way that you are referring to both sides of the presidential race? In which case, okay, I can go for that. I'm not sure if something as basically "small" in our everyday lives as that should be given such grandiose credit as being labeled the zeitgeist, especially since it will only last for about eight months in the national spotlight, but okay. Don't get me wrong, the choice of our next president is critical, but I doubt most people outside politics and the media spend more than half an hour a day, IF THAT, thinking about it, far less than they spend worrying about their fantasy football lineup for the next Sunday (and no, I don't play). Anyway, if you feel that sophism is really the current zeitgeist, then I'm not sure whether I feel more sorry for you in your jaded world, or me for wearing blinders. Are you saying that the basic underlying slant of our culture today is, when you boil it down to its base components, really just a bunch of lies? That's a pretty serious decouncement of our society as a whole. Yipes. I guess it's time for me to load the gun and climb in the bunker...

Yes. I think.

I love "Carolina Popinjays," BTW.

[bjornolf]

First off, let me just say that I'm just getting started, and you have fallen for one of the classic blunders, the first being never get involved in a land war in asia. Only slightly less well known, though, is never go against a Sicillian when death is on the line!

Secondly, I'm glad somebody caught the Carolina Popinjay reference. I had my fingers crossed. And, since Mammon was a demon from the bible, I thought the Duke Blue Mammons was pretty good too. Maybe I should have gone for DePaul instead, since they are the blue demons.

Thirdly, the scary thing is, I was an engineering major at Duke. So, I REALLY don't know what I'm talking about.

I'm done now. Back to my cave.

[snowdenscold]

And, since Mammon was a demon from the bible, I thought the Duke Blue Mammons was pretty good too.

Just FYI - it's not a real, literal demon, but a personification of riches and worldly gain into one.

[2535Miles]

Just FYI - it's not a real, literal demon, but a personification of riches and worldly gain into one.

I would've totally saved that for my 1000th post.

[captmojo]

Popinjay is a game popularized by children, similar to "Whack-a-Mole".

[bjornolf]

Just FYI - it's not a real, literal demon, but a personification of riches and worldly gain into one.

Yeah, I know. But a lot of people would argue about the existence of real, literal demons, or devils, at all. Our Blue Devils aren't real, literal devils either. They're a bunch of french guys who cavorted around in the french alps in snazzy blue berets and capes. Talk about your popinjays!

[hurleyfor3]

Isn't that a misuse of either sophistry or zeitgeist? Either one could work here, but I believe it would require the replacement, or at least qualification, of the other. There could be sophistry committed by those perpetuating the zeitgeist, but I didn't think such an abstraction as the feel of an era or attitude of a culture would be capable of sophism. Maybe I'm confused here.

If you insist on being such a critic, why don't you get down off your linguistic high horse and try writing a sentence using all four words yourself.

[bjornolf]

Hey, I was darn impressed with your attempt. I just didn't want people to get the wrong idea about the meaning of the words. Like I said, addidng a word or two would have fixed it. Believe me, I am NOT a critic of your word, and I'm FAR from a linguistic critic. Here's my lame attempt:

Through diabolical sophistry, the followers of Mammon so damaged the moral compass of the popinjays in Hollywood at the time that they ended up twisting the zeitgeist into a monument to greed and corruption.

bad, I know. How about this:

And, in sports last night, the Los Angeles Sophists used tricks and dirty play to defeat the New York Zeitgeist 2-0 on the pitch, keeping their playoff hopes alive, while on the hardwood, the Duke Blue Mammons defeated the Carolina Popinjays 84-61 to earn a trip to the Final Four.

I like the second one personally.