Basketball bronze.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Could somebody 'splain to me how third place is determined in Olympic basketball? Is there a playoff?
Thanks.
Love, Ima

[billybreen]

Could somebody 'splain to me how third place is determined in Olympic basketball? Is there a playoff?

Yes. There's a bronze medal game. That's how it works with all sports that have a bracket.

[Cavlaw]

It would be like if the two losers in the final four got to play each other for third place.

[Indoor66]

It would be like if the two losers in the final four got to play each other for third place.

That is how it used to be. Duke finished 3rd in '63 and '64.

[Atlanta Duke]

It would be like if the two losers in the final four got to play each other for third place.

Which back in the day when the NCAA thought it needed to provide a doubleheader for the fans actually took place before the national championship.

My recollection is that the NCAA finally dumped it sometimes in the mid-1970s

[Cavlaw]

I did not know that. Thanks for making me feel young, guys.

[pratt '04]

Yes. There's a bronze medal game. That's how it works with all sports that have a bracket.

In some of the combat sports, like Judo, they just give two bronze medals for each weight class.

link

[billybreen]

In some of the combat sports, like Judo, they just give two bronze medals for each weight class.

link

Interesting. I amend my comments to mean 'every bracket sport I've seen.'

[jimsumner]

"Duke finished 3rd in '63 and '64."

Actually '63 and '66. Finished second in '64 [Jay Buckley weeps that you forgot]

The last NCAA consolation game was in 1981, when UVA beat LSU. I've never talked to a single player who played in the third-place game who thought the concept was a good idea. You've gone to the Final Four with hopes of winning the whole thing, you lose the big game, and they want you to play again? For what? Bad idea, good riddance.

Now, the Bronze Medal game. Horse of a different color. The difference between third and fourth in the NCAA Tournament is miniscule. The difference between a bronze medal in the Olympics and no medal at all is fairly significant. IMO.

Note that Becca Ward won her bronzes in consolation matches.

[gep]

Yes. There's a bronze medal game. That's how it works with all sports that have a bracket.

Interestingly not only for the bronze medal and 4th place... it appears that the Olympics also have games to decide 5th through 12th...

http://www.nbcolympics.com/basketbal...id=104056.html

[gvtucker]

When I was a kid, they had 3rd place games in the regionals of the NCAA tournament, too.

[Indoor66]

"Duke finished 3rd in '63 and '64."

Actually '63 and '66. Finished second in '64 [Jay Buckley weeps that you forgot]

The last NCAA consolation game was in 1981, when UVA beat LSU. I've never talked to a single player who played in the third-place game who thought the concept was a good idea. You've gone to the Final Four with hopes of winning the whole thing, you lose the big game, and they want you to play again? For what? Bad idea, good riddance.

Now, the Bronze Medal game. Horse of a different color. The difference between third and fourth in the NCAA Tournament is miniscule. The difference between a bronze medal in the Olympics and no medal at all is fairly significant. IMO.

Note that Becca Ward won her bronzes in consolation matches.

My bad. Apologies to the '64 team.

[DevilWolf]

If UNC loses in the semifinals, they're automatically considered to be 3rd by the banner manufacturers.

[Wander]

If UNC loses in the semifinals, they're automatically considered to be 3rd by the banner manufacturers.

It should be noted that there is an important exception to this rule. If the year number is of the form "__24," then UNC is automatically considered 1st, not 3rd, regardless of their performance in the tournament.

[Olympic Fan]

Actually, calling a NCAA semifinal loser "third" is technically correct -- the NCAA lists the two semifinal losers as tied for third place.

The consolation (or third-place) games have an interesting history. When the NCAA Tournament started, it was an eight-team affair. The field would be divided into two four-team regionals and an Eastern and Western champion would meet for the title. So there really wasn't a Final Four in those days -- there was, but one semifinal game might be in San Francisco and the other in Philadelphia. Sometimes the title game game would be played at one of the regional sites, sometimes at a third site.

But here's the interesting deal -- the regional losers would accompany the regional winners to the championship site and play the third-place game as a preliminary to the title game. Imagine what that was like -- losing a heartbreaker in the national semifinals in San Francisco, then having to travel halfway across the country to play the third-place game in Kansas City.

The first real Final Four came in 1951, when the NCAA expanded from eight to 16 teams. The first real Final Four site was Minneapolis (by that, I mean, the first site to host both semifinals and the finals ... plus a third-place game).

I can recall grumbling about consolation games as early as the early 1960s. Except one -- Wake Forest won one of the most important games in ACC history in the 1962 NCAA third-place games.

During that era, there was an unbalanced tourney -- some teams had to win five games to win the title, while others were seeded right into the regional semifinals (and thus had to win just four games to win it all). The byes were awarded on the basis of a conference's past NCAA performance. The ACC, which got off to a fair weak start (before 1957) never got a bye in those days. The ACC champion would have to win the ACC title game on a Saturday night in Raleigh, then hop a train to New York or Philadelphia for its NCAA opener on Monday or Tuesday night.

Starting with UNC's 5-0 NCAA record in '57, the ACC did better -- Maryland was 2-1 in '58; UNC 0-1 in '59; Duke was 2-1 in '60 and Wake was 2-1 in 1961. When Wake reached the Final Four in 1962, the ACC actually passed the Mideastern Conference (St. Joe's and Temple) temporarily. When the Deacs lost to Ohio State in the semis, the Mideastern Conference moved back ahead. Wake had to beat UCLA (John Wooden's first Final Four team) in the third-place game to win back the bye.

"It's the first time a consolation game ever gave me consolation," Wake coach Bones McKinney said. "Tell Vic we did it for him."

Vic was Vic Bubas of Duke. Bones knew that with Len Chappell and Billy Packer leaving, Duke -- with Heyman and Mullins -- would be the team to beat in 1963. He was right, Duke won the ACC and enjoyed Wake's bye, getting to the Final Four for the first time in history.

It's worth noting that before 1962 -- when Wake won its consolation game and its bye -- the ACC had made one Final Four appearance in its first seven years (1962 was the second). Starting in 1963, ACC teams would reach the Final Four six of the next seven years.

So don't dis the consolation game ...

[jimsumner]

North Carolina State's East Region consolation victory over St. Joseph's in 1965 preserved the ACC's bye.