Unbelievable - Spanish BBall Team

[darthur]

A Reuters article quoted Pau Gasol where he said that he was uncomfortable with the concept but went ahead with it at the insistence of the sponsors. So seemingly at least one person in the room had a clue it was stupid if not potentially offensive. Unfortunately his spine was too weak to allow him to stand up for what he says he felt at the time.

I would be curious to see the full quote. I think it is at best part of the story, because his other quotes paint quite a different picture: e.g. it's "ridiculous" that people are offended.

Assuming this is true though, and he's not just backpedaling to try to save face, it's interesting that this came from Gasol in particular. Since he is one of the (few?) Spanish team members to live in the USA, he *should* be the one to realize that people in the USA would be offended by the picture.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I would be curious to see the full quote. I think it is at best part of the story, because his other quotes paint quite a different picture: e.g. it's "ridiculous" that people are offended.

Assuming this is true though, and he's not just backpedaling to try to save face, it's interesting that this came from Gasol in particular. Since he is one of the (few?) Spanish team members to live in the USA, he *should* be the one to realize that people in the USA would be offended by the picture.

From the Reuters article...

Pau Gasol, who plays for the Los Angeles Lakers, told the New York Times that, at the time, some of the players had felt uncomfortable shooting the advertisement for sponsors Seur, a Spanish courier company. Seur was unavailable for comment.

"To me it was little clownish for our part to be doing that. The sponsor insisted and insisted. They pushed because they're the people that pay the money. It was just a bad idea to do that. It was never intended to be offensive or racist against anybody," the New York Times quoted him as saying on its website.

"If anyone feels offended by it, we totally apologise for it."

[darthur]

That is very interesting. I don't think I agree with your summary of the quote though.

There is one sentence saying the picture was a bad idea, which surely anyone can see by now. But I still don't think he gets it. Notice:

"it was a little clownish"
"It was never intended to be offensive"
"If anyone feels offended by it"

Even now, as far as I can tell, Gasol is saying a couple players were objecting that the picture was too "clownish", not that it was too offensive. To me, this is Gasol trying to backpedal, apologize and save face... but still not really understanding what the fuss is about.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

This post may be more appropriate in the USA-Spain thread, but does anyone else think that fallout from this will have an outcome on the game. If the Chinese fans are booing the Spanish team, we get the home court advantage, no?

[darthur]

This post may be more appropriate in the USA-Spain thread, but does anyone else think that fallout from this will have an outcome on the game. If the Chinese fans are booing the Spanish team, we get the home court advantage, no?

Well as I understand it, China loves the US team so we'd have home-court advantage anyway =).

I do wonder though. Have the Chinese in China said any more about this? I'm guessing that even if the Chinese government did view it as derogatory, they would really try to play it down in public. This Olympics is supposed to be about China's accomplishments, not about other countries making fun of them.

[awhom111]

I do wonder though. Have the Chinese in China said any more about this? I'm guessing that even if the Chinese government did view it as derogatory, they would really try to play it down in public. This Olympics is supposed to be about China's accomplishments, not about other countries making fun of them.

The Chinese in China might not be as offended by this because they have never had the gesture done in their direction. I have had people do this to me in a mocking gesture (in Mexico not the United States) and was hurt by that, so I was extremely offended as soon as I saw this picture. I would not be surprised, for example, if more black people who had the n-word directed at them opposed its use in all cases (including by other black people) than those who had never experienced racism in that form. Many Asian-Americans, including those who have grown up in places that have large Asian communities, like me, have at least one racist experience, and anything that reminds us of those specific incidents is likely to be hurtful.

[footballfan]

i don't see why people are arguing so much here.

1) The ad was racist. How can one deny this? It is focusing on a one specific ethnic group and their "slanted eyes".

2) Now the real question is was it done in a mean or malicious way. Well that's the crux of the argument. Honestly (even though I was "offended" by the picture), I don't think it was meant to be in a mean way. Sort of like how we Americans make fun of "Southern" people.

3) The Chinese people aren't making a big deal of this for three reasons. The government media is not printing the ad, and probably surprisingly the Chinese have no clue what this gesture means. This gesture is a completely "Western" thing. It's like me going to some tribal village and showing them the "finger". They'll look at me like I'm retarded and just move on. Finally, Chinese probably dismiss it because in their mind Spain/Spanish means nothing to them. It would be interesting to see how they would react if the American did the same thing (trust me: Kobe wouldn't be so loved then).

Racism exists. And racisms is just based on ignorance. These Olympics (in China) are a good way to show the world an Asian culture.

[Bluedog]

i don't see why people are arguing so much here.

1) The ad was racist. How can one deny this? It is focusing on a one specific ethnic group and their "slanted eyes".

2) Now the real question is was it done in a mean or malicious way. Well that's the crux of the argument. Honestly (even though I was "offended" by the picture), I don't think it was meant to be in a mean way. Sort of like how we Americans make fun of "Southern" people.

3) The Chinese people aren't making a big deal of this for three reasons. The government media is not printing the ad, and probably surprisingly the Chinese have no clue what this gesture means. This gesture is a completely "Western" thing. It's like me going to some tribal village and showing them the "finger". They'll look at me like I'm retarded and just move on. Finally, Chinese probably dismiss it because in their mind Spain/Spanish means nothing to them. It would be interesting to see how they would react if the American did the same thing (trust me: Kobe wouldn't be so loved then).

Racism exists. And racisms is just based on ignorance. These Olympics (in China) are a good way to show the world an Asian culture.

Yes, racism exists. I think the Chinese don't really care because, I'm sorry, but China (and most of Asia) is even more racist than the US, so nobody cares as much since it's commonplace and people just brush it off. In the Philippines, for example, they have ads for skin care products that exclaim, "don't be dark skinned, be as white as possible" for promoting their skin whitening products. Odd considering people are born in the Philippines with a tan. Can you imagine if similar ads took place in the US? There'd be an instant uproar that it would be taken away within a day. People from India who I know in the States tell me that their parents (and sometimes them) have an order of preference for people they can date with upper-class Indians being at the top of the list, whites being somewhere in the middle, and Chinese being below that and African Americans being at the bottom. Seems completely racist to me, but it's a different outlook, I guess. Anybody ever read Michael Crichton's Rising Sun?

The Chinese in China don't care about the ad at all. Admittedly, though, I don't see how the ad could be interpreted as "funny" or "respectful" though. Stupid idea to do it, especially considering some of them live in the US and should know how the US would react.

[footballfan]

Yes, racism exists. I think the Chinese don't really care because, I'm sorry, but China (and most of Asia) is even more racist than the US, so nobody cares as much since it's commonplace and people just brush it off. In the Philippines, for example, they have ads for skin care products that exclaim, "don't be dark skinned, be as white as possible" for promoting their skin whitening products. Odd considering people are born in the Philippines with a tan. Can you imagine if similar ads took place in the US? There'd be an instant uproar that it would be taken away within a day. People from India who I know in the States tell me that their parents (and sometimes them) have an order of preference for people they can date with upper-class Indians being at the top of the list, whites being somewhere in the middle, and Chinese being below that and African Americans being at the bottom. Seems completely racist to me, but it's a different outlook, I guess. Anybody ever read Michael Crichton's Rising Sun?

The Chinese in China don't care about the ad at all. Admittedly, though, I don't see how the ad could be interpreted as "funny" or "respectful" though. Stupid idea to do it, especially considering some of them live in the US and should know how the US would react.

Well I'm not too sure what you write about the Philippines is based on "racism". They are all the same race. It is just based on cosmetic appearance. Just like how obese people or short people in this country are "frowned" upon. Now there is no doubt that all cultures are racist... even towards other same ethnic groups. Japanese are "racist" towards Korean, etc..

We in this country always worry about racism and think we as a society are still very racist... but in actuality the US is probably the least racist country in the world.

[TampaDuke]

Agreed. There should be a universal standard for offense, and that standard should be driven by the feelings of the aggrieved.

So if someone did something egregious with the clear intent of being racist but for whatever reason the intended target did not take offense than it is less reprehensible? Similarly, if a truly innocent gesture without racial motivation was taken as racism by a hypersensitive person or group, it would be the equivalent of intended racism?

Personally, I think both the individual's intent and the perception of the aggrieved must be relevant in assessing these issues, with intent being a bigger part of the equation.

That said, from what I can tell, the Spanish team's photo in this instance is reprehensible. I'm not an expert on Spanish or Chinese culture, but I just don't see what other intent was meant by this photo other than to make fun of Asians.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Now I hope the USA just destroys Spain.

Wish granted.

[Papa John]

Wish granted.

Nah-ah! Wish was Grant-ed in 1991... This wish would better be described as Wade-ed... or LeBron-ed... or Melo-ed [I like that one]...