Duke vs. Davidson

[Davidson09]

Long time reader, first time poster.

As you can tell by the name, I go to Davidson. My two favorite teams are Davidson and Duke. Therefore, the matchups are always interesting to me. I find that trying to predict a winner is no use, but some other discussions can be intriguing.

What do you guys think of the matchups? Watch for Lovedale to create problems for Duke's big men. Gerald, however, can play against a PG, SG, SF and potentially a PF for Davidson. So. Anyway. Thoughts?

[roywhite]

Long time reader, first time poster.

As you can tell by the name, I go to Davidson. My two favorite teams are Davidson and Duke. Therefore, the matchups are always interesting to me. I find that trying to predict a winner is no use, but some other discussions can be intriguing.

What do you guys think of the matchups? Watch for Lovedale to create problems for Duke's big men. Gerald, however, can play against a PG, SG, SF and potentially a PF for Davidson. So. Anyway. Thoughts?

I greatly admire and respect what Davidson and Coach McKillop have accomplished over the years, with last year being exceptional. Seems to me the loss of PG Jason Richards is major. Obviously, a team with Curry is very dangerous, but I expect Duke to have a somewhat easier time with the Wildcats this coming season. Duke by 10 or 12.

[Saratoga2]

Long time reader, first time poster.

As you can tell by the name, I go to Davidson. My two favorite teams are Davidson and Duke. Therefore, the matchups are always interesting to me. I find that trying to predict a winner is no use, but some other discussions can be intriguing.

What do you guys think of the matchups? Watch for Lovedale to create problems for Duke's big men. Gerald, however, can play against a PG, SG, SF and potentially a PF for Davidson. So. Anyway. Thoughts?

Frankly I don't know the Davidson team well enough to comment on direct matchups. I was pleased by the way Davidson played in the NCAAs. They are very well coached and had a magnificent run. That said, I think Duke is very experienced, talented and deep at the guard positions and the small forward position. This year Duke will have 5 players who can play inside. It remains to be seen when the new kids will be effective, but they certainly can help, especially if there are injuries. Saying that, I think Duke will prove too tough for Davidson when they meet.

[dukemomLA]

Welcome 1st-Time Poster!! I LOVE Davidson! and Coach Mc. Unless Davidson is playing Duke, I root for them always. Curry is THE MAN!!!

[Verga3]

Long time reader, first time poster.

As you can tell by the name, I go to Davidson. My two favorite teams are Davidson and Duke. Therefore, the matchups are always interesting to me. I find that trying to predict a winner is no use, but some other discussions can be intriguing.

What do you guys think of the matchups? Watch for Lovedale to create problems for Duke's big men. Gerald, however, can play against a PG, SG, SF and potentially a PF for Davidson. So. Anyway. Thoughts?

Welcome, Davidson09!

You will find a lot of Davidson fans here....great school, class coach and a basketball program with plenty of history. A Duke v. Davidson matchup today would be fun to watch. Never underestimate the Wildcats.

Duke and Davidson have a rich basketball history together, most notably, playing twelve consecutive years between 1967-1979. In the early years, Davidson and Duke were both Top 10 teams and had some great games at Duke, and in Charlotte and Greensboro. Lefty Driesell (Duke grad) brought your program to national prominance in those days with great names like Terry Holland (later a Davidson head coach), Fred Hetzel, Dave Moser, Mike Maloy and Doug Cook.

I know Coach K has tremendous respect for Bob McKillop and for Davidson. Best of luck this season....You'll have some Dukies in your corner!

[Edouble]

Duke's advantage this year is certainly that if Curry was under the radar at all last year, he is now fully exposed. Lots of tape to try to break the guy's game down. The Davidson game was not on TV last year where I live, so I didn't get to see who guarded Curry, but I am guessing Nelson spend a good amount of the game trying to contain him. It seems after the measurements from the draft camp that Nelson wasn't much taller than Nolan, if he was taller at all, so hopefully there won't be too much of a drop off in our man coverage in this year's game. Nelson probably had longer arms and was stronger, but Nolan was touted at the beginning of last year as the quickest defender on the team. Plus, you have to figure there will be a lot of guys switching onto Curry from screens, and we figure to double and maybe triple team him on drives. Davidson is more than a one man show, of course, but with a player like Curry, the 'Cats always have a chance to beat any team on any night, as they showed us last year by giving the eventual National Champs a real run for their money in the Elite Eight. Still, it seems logical to think that if Davidson was going to knock off Duke, last year was the year to do so, with Curry under the radar, and a lot of the Duke players still getting used to each other.

[DevilDan]

All props to Davidson ... I was in high school in Greeensboro, already a DUKE fan for life, but I kept reading (because there was far less TV coverage) about Lefty Driesell and his team of Fred Hetzel, Don Davidson, Barry Teague, Dick Snyder, and Terry Holland (I think he was the other starter--guys, correct me if I'm wrong).

They kept winning and moving up the polls, and were my first exposure to a Cinderella story (even though the "experts" were criticizing their "weak" conference and sked).

I seem to remember the finals of the Southern Conference Tourney (possibly a year after Davidson's breakout season), and a game between VMI. VMI was a huge underdog against the Wildcats in the finals, but managed to hang around. A guard named Charlie Schmaus (sp?) threw up a desperate heave from 40ft+, Hetzel went up in front of the rim and caught it--the officials ruled it goaltending, and VMI got the win. (If anyone has a better recollection, please chime in). I saw the game on TV, and it really hacked me off--all I could think of was, "glad it didn't happen to MY guys" at DUKE.

This Davidson thread got me thinking about those times. Like everyone else, I watched the Wildcats and their March with Curry last season. Good luck to them this year. With respect for their All-American guard and their excellent Coach McKillop, I'll take DUKE in their matchup, 83-82, and be relieved and HAPPY, HA !

( Again, if someone can fill in the gaps from above on Davidson, please help ! )

[Verga3]

All props to Davidson ... I was in high school in Greeensboro, already a DUKE fan for life, but I kept reading (because there was far less TV coverage) about Lefty Driesell and his team of Fred Hetzel, Don Davidson, Barry Teague, Dick Snyder, and Terry Holland (I think he was the other starter--guys, correct me if I'm wrong).

They kept winning and moving up the polls, and were my first exposure to a Cinderella story (even though the "experts" were criticizing their "weak" conference and sked).

I seem to remember the finals of the Southern Conference Tourney (possibly a year after Davidson's breakout season), and a game between VMI. VMI was a huge underdog against the Wildcats in the finals, but managed to hang around. A guard named Charlie Schmaus (sp?) threw up a desperate heave from 40ft+, Hetzel went up in front of the rim and caught it--the officials ruled it goaltending, and VMI got the win. (If anyone has a better recollection, please chime in). I saw the game on TV, and it really hacked me off--all I could think of was, "glad it didn't happen to MY guys" at DUKE.

This Davidson thread got me thinking about those times. Like everyone else, I watched the Wildcats and their March with Curry last season. Good luck to them this year. With respect for their All-American guard and their excellent Coach McKillop, I'll take DUKE in their matchup, 83-82, and be relieved and HAPPY, HA !

( Again, if someone can fill in the gaps from above on Davidson, please help ! )

Great memory, DevilDan! Here's a link to the 1964 Duke (5) v. Davidson (4) contest in Durham in which Duke prevailed 82-75, with the Wildcat starters you mentioned. http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketba...ameid=19640215

Interesting that Duke only credited with 2 assists in the game....

[DevilDan]

Thanks Verga3 ... do you also remember the controversial finish I mentioned, where Herzel goal-tending on the last "shot" of that VMI game? It was considered robbery among all of my expert (teenage) buddies, and blew the entire season for Davidson.

I also go to the Duke database, to look up players and seasons--but you beat me there on this one. I am going to check to see if the Davidson team site has such an archive.

[Indoor66]

Great memory, DevilDan! Here's a link to the 1964 Duke (5) v. Davidson (4) contest in Durham in which Duke prevailed 82-75, with the Wildcat starters you mentioned. http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketba...ameid=19640215

Interesting that Duke only credited with 2 assists in the game....

Another point - only seven players played in the game for Duke and they ended up as Runners-up to UCLA for the National Championship. How could they without a longer bench?

[goduke6868]

Duke huge over Davidson this year. Duke 77 Davidson 54

[Verga3]

Thanks Verga3 ... do you also remember the controversial finish I mentioned, where Herzel goal-tending on the last "shot" of that VMI game? It was considered robbery among all of my expert (teenage) buddies, and blew the entire season for Davidson.

I also go to the Duke database, to look up players and seasons--but you beat me there on this one. I am going to check to see if the Davidson team site has such an archive.

I don't specifically remember that VMI game, but thanks to the SI Vault here a couple of neat memory joggers of that particular game and of Davidson and Lefty.

Davidson v. VMI (brief recap) http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...26/2/index.htm

The Agony of Lefty Driesell http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...6994/index.htm

[Davidson09]

Thanks for all the replies. I wouldn't be able to answer the questions about older Davidson games/stats, as I was not quite around then. I started following Davidson basketball closely only a few years ago.

But back to the game, I honestly don't see the game being more than 7 or 8 points in favor of either team. We did lose Jason Richards, who was extremely valuable to our team, and our success. So, Curry running the point is going to be a little weird. I know Curry was matched up with Henderson for the most part during their last meeting, but I suspect it will be Paulus on Curry now?

Also, just as a refresher, what will Duke's starting lineup be? Paulus, Scheyer, Henderson, Thomas, Singler? Do you guys anticipate any of the frosh to start? We sort of have the same "unknown" factor - 2 of our starters graduated, so we suspect that Coach McKillop will experiment around with a few starting lineups before settling. But as we know, this Duke team is smaller than other teams they will be playing. Davidson, too, is smaller (in general) than some of the teams we'll be playing. Therefore, the size aspect will, I think very interesting to note.

Just a wild guess, but I think you'll see (from Duke's defensive stance): Henderson on Curry again (b/c that worked for Duke the last time), Paulus on our 2 guard (Bryant Barr, perhaps?), Scheyer on Max Paulus Gosselin, Thomas on Steve Rossiter and Singler on Lovedale. I anticipate Lovedale to fare well against Singler, as I believe he is faster and stronger. But Singler has a much better range than Lovedale (Lovedale will be playing a center, effectively).

[skitelz]

the starting line-up will probably have zoubek in for thomas (of course that is just my personal opinion b/c i think z would have started last year before the injury).

but anyway, paulus might be able to slide over and guard barr (there is only an inch or so of height difference), scheyer or henderson could guard curry (and i suspect that both will) b/c both are tall enough and fast enough to give curry fits. of course, henderson is more athletic. whichever guard doesn't guard curry will probably guard gosselin. he doesnt seem like much of a scorer and therefore this defender can help out more on curry or barr.

on the inside, it seems like lovedale is your center. to be honest, it seems like he really didnt break out much until the tournament. either way, you are wrong about lovedale being faster or stronger than kyle. if kyle can do an effective job guarding tyler hansbrough (who is much, much stronger than lovedale) than he will have no problem with lovedale in the strength regard. on another note, during the mcdonald's game, singler had no trouble guarding jerryd bayless and oj mayo, so i doubt that lovedale is quicker than singler either. if zoubek is the starter, i imagine that he will be able to handle rossiter too.

but your bench does look good with six and seven men of archambault and mckillop (is he the coach's son?). if mckillop starts and they keep curry at the two, then paulus will guard mckillop.

whatever happens it should be a fun matchup and game.

[Davidson09]

i can see zoubek in for thomas, but only if zoubek does some extraordinary work in this offseason. but (aside from the davidson game, of course), it would be wonderful to see zoubek become more assertive on the floor. i suspect barr will be starting at the 2 guard, so paulus on barr would make sense. very similar players.

don't undersell gosselin... our system is built so that everyone contributes either on or off the ball. as you may have seen in the tournament games (especially g-town), his off-the-ball movement enabled others (notably curry) to get open for shots.

yes, brendan mckillop is coach's son. rising sophomore. brother matt played at davidson (2001-2006). matt is coming in to be an assistant coach this coming year. brendan is a sharpshooter, and, in my opinion, a PG in training. So you may see him spot the 1 while curry moves over to the 2 for a little bit. but that's speculation.

honestly, the duke game is one of the most fun ones for me to speculate on, because i know both teams well. and its wonderful getting this sort of feedback/discussion.

[skitelz]

are you guys expecting a lot from archambault and mckillop? just looking a t stats last year, archambault scored more than gosselin in a lot less minutes. do you think he can be a great six man in the jon scheyer/danny green/sherron collins mold?

[Davidson09]

we are certainly expecting a lot from archambault. he will definitely be first off the bench. look at his stats from his freshman year. he is a spark off the bench, and can score well and do it quickly. the reason his stats seem stacked in comparson to max's is because max fulfills a different role on the team. max's main job is to be a defensive hound (see the tournament games, those 5-second inbounds calls, steals, etc). most of his work is done on the defensive end. he can hit clutch shots, too (gonzaga), but a lot of the plays call for him to be an off-the-ball contributor. but, as anyone who appreciates team ball can attest, that is a very important role.


mckillop, i think will play more than he did this past year. the reason he didn't play much is because the guard position was such: Jason Richards, Stephen Curry, Bryant Barr, Max Paulus Gosselin, Will Archambault. He got PT towards the end, but I suspect he will be contributing more heavily this coming season.

in terms of comparing him to other sixth men, i honestly don't know/don't want to speculate. all i know is, Duke, UNC, Davidson and Kansas are expected to be Top 25 teams next year (well, Kansas is debatable)... I think all four coaches will do quality jobs with their bench players.

[Kishiznit]

Duke's advantage this year is certainly that if Curry was under the radar at all last year, he is now fully exposed. Lots of tape to try to break the guy's game down. The Davidson game was not on TV last year where I live, so I didn't get to see who guarded Curry, but I am guessing Nelson spend a good amount of the game trying to contain him. It seems after the measurements from the draft camp that Nelson wasn't much taller than Nolan, if he was taller at all, so hopefully there won't be too much of a drop off in our man coverage in this year's game. Nelson probably had longer arms and was stronger, but Nolan was touted at the beginning of last year as the quickest defender on the team. Plus, you have to figure there will be a lot of guys switching onto Curry from screens, and we figure to double and maybe triple team him on drives. Davidson is more than a one man show, of course, but with a player like Curry, the 'Cats always have a chance to beat any team on any night, as they showed us last year by giving the eventual National Champs a real run for their money in the Elite Eight. Still, it seems logical to think that if Davidson was going to knock off Duke, last year was the year to do so, with Curry under the radar, and a lot of the Duke players still getting used to each other.

Do you think Curry (or any talent) falls under under the radar when they play Duke, edouble? K scouts and knows what to expect and who can score. Without Richards in the lineup I'm not sure it will be so close. Curry got early fouls in last year's game so we really never got a dose of what he could do...Duke by 21.

[Edouble]

Do you think Curry (or any talent) falls under under the radar when they play Duke, edouble? K scouts and knows what to expect and who can score. Without Richards in the lineup I'm not sure it will be so close. Curry got early fouls in last year's game so we really never got a dose of what he could do...Duke by 21.

Yes, yes, I know Coach K is perfect, but if you were say, Kyle Singler, as freshman at Duke, dreaming about the upcoming ACC season and Coach K came in the locker room with the Davidson scouting report and told you "This 6 foot guard on Davidson's team is as good a player as anyone we will face in conference or nationally this year", would you honestly believe him?

Curry had to be under Coach K's radar up until some point, because Curry is wearing a Davidson, and not a Duke, uniform!

[Davidson09]

Curry was, as I'm sure ESPN has rammed into people's heads, overlooked by pretty much everyone. The two schools that recruited him the hardest were Davidson and Winthrop. Obviously McKillop saw something in him that other coaches didn't see yet, or perhaps saw but didn't want to take a chance on. One thing that I think Duke (and, for that matter, every other team) will have to focus on staying alert on off-the-ball defense. For those of you who saw our games, you saw that many off-the-ball movements led to players taking solid shots. I fully expect Coach K to scout out McKillop's crew to the last detail, and vice versa.

Duke's game (at least one that's been tested) has been the perimeter play. The inside game will have to wait to be seen (frosh), but as of who is experienced and who we know can flat out ball, Duke's game is heavily perimeter oriented. Our inside game has gotten much, much better (i.e. Lovedale/Sander vs. Hibbert and Butch in the tournament). The (presumable) Lovedale-Singler matchup will be very intriguing.

Again, I believe these are very evenly matched teams. Great upcoming game.