This has a very strong “more to this story” feel to it. Will be interesting to learn what the “philosophical differences” were.Quote:
Originally Posted by CDu
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This has a very strong “more to this story” feel to it. Will be interesting to learn what the “philosophical differences” were.Quote:
Originally Posted by CDu
From what I've read the past two days, the philosophical differences between Shildt and upper organization is the major reason for his dismissal. It was surprising Mozeliak, named hitting coach Jeff Albert as a person Shildt disagreed with. I'm guessing but it seems Shildt doesn't agree with the new analytics part of the game. Jeff Albert is all about launch angle and hitting homers. An article I read this morning named these guys as possible candidates for the job: 1) Stubby Clapp, 3rd base coach and former Memphis manager. He lead the AAA team to back to back championships 2017-2018. He's the only player to have his jersey retired at Memphis. Stubby has been interviewed for manager jobs in the past and speculation is he will be a manager soon. Question is will it be with the Cardinals. 2) Oliver Marmol, current bench coach for the Cardinals and has had the job for 3 years all under Shildt. 3) Skip Schumaker, currently the Padres associate manager. He's been praised for his work with blending analytics, feel for the game and great rapport with the players. Skip has shot up the charts for possible manager jobs. 4) Matt Holliday former player with the Cards and currently volunteer assistant coach at Oklahoma State. He comes from a coaching family. His brother is the head coach at Oklahoma State and his dad was the head coach at Oklahoma State for years. 5) Buck Showalter, current MLB Network analyst. Buck doesn't seem to fit the description of what upper management wants in a manager. He's a hands on guy and it looks like Mozeliak wants a yes man. There are some colorful names there, Stubby, Skip and Buck. All we need is a Bubba to fill out the list. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by CDu
Maybe, but that doesn't explain the Cards' request to MLB to announce it immediately, rather than waiting until an off-day (literally one day later) to announce. If it was just philosophical differences, that one day wouldn't seem problematic to wait. So as pfrduke said, this has a "more to the story" feel to it. Hopefully it is just philosophical differences, but it doesn't feel like that's the whole story.Quote:
Originally Posted by jv001
The article I read said Mozeliak wanted a manager in place by the middle of November. I don't have an idea if this was the reasoning behind requesting MLB to announce it this early. I thought things like this were supposed to be delayed until after the World Series was completed. I do know the Padres and Mets are also looking for new managers next season.Quote:
Originally Posted by CDu
Eh, maybe, but I don't think that's the reason. The MLB typically allows/expects teams to report firing/hiring news in between series or on off-days (like today), so as to not consume media on playoff game days. So since today is an off-day in between series, that one day difference doesn't really make sense as a reason for why they went out of their way to ask for permission to say it on a BIG game day yesterday. Getting it out there one day earlier doesn't change their chances of getting their guy by mid-November.Quote:
Originally Posted by jv001
Hopefully (for Schildt's sake) it isn't something more serious. But the players were shocked by the dismissal, and it is definitely weird that they felt the need to get this out ASAP when they could have waited one more day and made it look totally normal.
I am not sure any of us not deeply affiliated within the Cardinals organization or clubhouse will ever truly know the entirety of the reasoning of the Cardinals front office if it was truly due to philosophical differences. If it was due to some inappropriate email or the like which you are seeming to suggest, I think we’ll likely hear about it soon in this cancel culture of sports that the USA is evolving into. I highly doubt that but anything is possible. I personally think that Shildt likely wants the front office to spend a bit more on a front line starter, shortstop, or closer/bullpen help and the front office doesn’t want to meet him in the middle with his requests. It seems they likely had some pointed close out meetings after losing to the Dodgers in the playoffs and realized how different their thoughts/goals/strategies are for the future of the club. The timing certainly is peculiar but it could be Mozeliak and DeWitt wanting to shove it up Shildt’s rear end once more on his way out to show who wears the pants in the relationship. May just be a power struggle they wanted to win on their own timeline and cause Shildt some embarrassment publicly by doing it on a playoff day when media usually isn’t allowed to teams not still in the playoffs. If an email scandal was the reasoning for this, I’m pretty sure we’ll hear about it in the coming days.Quote:
Originally Posted by CDu
If they promote from within, I think it goes to Stubby Clapp. He managed Memphis to AAA titles and had more experience than Marmol. I think Marmol would be one of the youngest managers in MLB history. He’s only 35. I know Rocco Baldelli is 40 and was named manager of the Twins when he was 37. I can’t think of any MLB managers in my lifetime or ever that were 35 when handed the keys to the clubhouse as an MLB manager.Quote:
Originally Posted by jv001
Edit: looks like Eric Wedge was 35 when he got the Indians manager role in 2003 and A.J. Hinch was 35 when he got the Diamondbacks manager role in 09. A few in the 1800s and early 1900s were younger, but it’s extremely rare.
Buck Showalter was 35 when he got the Yanks job and turned 36 in May of his first season - I keep seeing him around and remember him from back then so assume he is ancient but he started so young that he is only 65 now.Quote:
Originally Posted by CameronDuke
I think that Schumaker would love the Padres job as he is from southern California and his family is there, but it doesn't look like he is in the mix. I would pull for Stubby Clapp because baseball needs more Canadian guys named Stubby around.
I had heard of the policy of no announcements on playoff game days and it does strike me as very odd that they couldn't wait a day. Does that rule only apply to manager jobs? Because the Yanks fired several coaches yesterday (shockingly including Phil Nevin, who I think set an unwritten record as a third base coach for most runners thrown out at the plate).
Forgot about Buck. He seemed like a good guy but to me is better suited for the analyst booth. Wasn’t an outstanding manager to me. Some of his clubs sporadically had some okay seasons here and there but his last few years in Baltimore were abysmal. I’d be surprised if his overall managerial record is much over .500. Not sure about the MLB rule. It was unusual the Cardinals announced it yesterday. I can only really think the front office got into an argument or two with Shildt and wanted to really make a mockery of his firing in a power struggle. Or they really didn’t want to waste another 24 hours in their search for his replacement when competing against the Mets and Padres for a new skipper. Time is money, I guess. It’s only 24 hours but I could see that as being a reason. Schumaker is a candidate for St. Louis but I doubt it. My money is on Stubby Clapp.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie
I will try to ignore the loaded wording of "cancel culture". And I certainly hope for Shildt's sake that it isn't something more nefarious like Gruden's emails. And I agree that if it IS something nefarious we'll probably hear about it soon (which would have been the point of getting out in front of it by the organization).Quote:
Originally Posted by CameronDuke
Again, I certainly hope for Shildt's sake it's not something more nefarious.
Me too, who knows, I doubt it but we’ll see I guess. He was described as being utterly shocked when called to be told he was fired and many of the players were, too. I interpret that as suggesting this move wasn’t due to nefarious emails or the like. I don’t think that’s the reason and don’t really expect to ever find out the entirety of the reasoning. Some I’ve read have suggested the front office wants a more sabermetric, analytical approach and Shildt is more of a traditionalist and “feel” or “gut instinct” guy when it comes to major managerial decision making and techniques. Others have speculated that the rumor retired announcer Mike Shannon spread that was wrong about DeWitt wanting to sell the team came from discussions with Shildt that if they don’t spend money, they should just sell the team. It is speculation but could be true, too. I don’t think we’ll ever know the whole story. I wish Shildt the best. He never had a losing season in St. Louis and made the playoffs every year including the 2019 NLCS.Quote:
Originally Posted by CDu
Everybody keeps talking about waiting for an off-day and referencing today...you all know that there's a game tonight, right? :cool:
That’s true. I missed it. Assuming both series end in sweeps, the next off day would be next Tuesday. Seems the Cardinals wanted to fire Shildt yesterday rather than wait almost at least another whole week … the abrupt firing makes more sense in that regard.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDevil2K
Like the poster mentioned above - today’s not an off day. There won’t be one for a week or more potentially. I think we both missed that.Quote:
Originally Posted by CDu
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDevil2K
Sorry - my misread of the tweet. My comments are based on this tweet from a Washington Post beat writer Chelsea Janes:Quote:
Originally Posted by CameronDuke
"Cardinals requested permission from the league to announce this on the day of Game 5 of the NLDS. So it seems they felt this was urgent."
So the emphasis was really the request to do it on an elimination game day rather than on a day not as significant (the next day would be today, which is as BD2K notes is "just" game 1).
There was also an actual off-day on Wednesday, the day BEFORE the firing. Which makes it seem like the decision was made on Thursday and they wanted to do it ASAP. Hence the tweet by Janes, hence the feeling that there is something more going on.
But, it could very well be that the information was somehow accidentally leaked somewhere and the Cards didn't want things to fester without it being official. I hope that's what it is.
Mike Shildt, former St. Louis Cardinal manager is supposed to release his first public statement today regarding his firing. According to Katie Woo of the Athletic, Shildt denied any discord with the coaching staff and players. However, according to Woo, Shildt didn't deny discord with management and that the lack of major moves at the trade deadline by the team was one of the disagreements between management and the former manager. ESPN's Buster Olney reported Shildt was on the hot seat in August because of the teams record and lackluster play.