2021 Men's Basketball Recruiting Thread

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Originally Posted by proelitedota

Ok. My definition of positions would be the ones they play on defense. In that sense Matt Jones is a wing because he guard 1-3. Nolan would be a guard because he guards 1-2. Outside of centers, players should be able to guard multiple adjacent positions and that gives me a consistent methodology to define the position a player plays regardless of their offensive capabilities.

So imo, next year wel'll have 3 guards in that sense in Moore, Roach, and DJ. 4 if Goldie returns.

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I define position by defense as well, with the exception of ballhandling guards and centers. But that is neither here nor there. This particular discussion was started about “guard play”, with a seeming emphasis on ballhandling. Someone posted they were concerned that we have just two guards. In response to the possibility that Moore be considered the third guard, there was some dissent, and a statement that we needed more than that. Hence my post. The 1998, 1999, 2001, 2010, and 2015 teams had no more ballhandlers/guards than next year’s group. The 2018 and 2019 teams as well, depending upon how strongly one feels about O’Connell as a ballhandler. The point being it really isn’t that uncommon for Duke to have just 2 or 3 ballhandling guards, nor is it uncommon for Duke to succeed with just 2-3 ballhandling guards.

I would argue that Griffin would do just fine defending (or playing offense at) any position, though, for what it is worth. But that is a marginal quibble.

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Originally Posted by 907bluedevils

What makes him really attractive on the college level is that Washington is just as dangerous playing off of the ball because of his scoring. The ability to play him with another point guard and give an extra ball handler is a strong selling point to those looking to get involved.

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There's also his name, which as an erstwhile Georgian, makes me want to say it.

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Originally Posted by CDu

The reason folks think Goldwire is leaving is because he posted an IG (or Twitter) post about the Louisville game being his last game in Cameron. Obviously not a guarantee that he is gone, but it certainly gives an idea where his head is at the moment.

I don’t want to get too deep into transfer speculation, but I would say that Baker doesn’t seem to me like the biggest transfer risk at Duke.

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I try not to over-analyze social media posts, but he did say "last home game with the gang." Who is the gang? I don't know. Could be current team has been self-labeled as that. I recognize the football team also often does #dukegang. Is every Duke basketball team the gang? Just saying could poke holes in it to suggest it wasn't definitive, and even if it was a more definitive statement, can always change mind anyways...

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Originally Posted by 907bluedevils

https://twitter.com/jakeweingarten/s...552701952?s=20

According to Jake we've reached out or will be. Seems like could be a good fit for us and our guard situation next year.

247 thinks he will be a 5* at next update and describes him.

Consistently productive point guard with good size and length. Solid frame with plenty of room to add strength. Has nice combination of scoring and creating for point guard position. Has ball skills and vision to consistently create for others while his jumper is playable to the perimeter. Finishes well at rim due to physical tools. Has ability to defend both guard positions at next level due to instincts and length. Projects as high major starter with professional upside if game continues to progress.

What makes him really attractive on the college level is that Washington is just as dangerous playing off of the ball because of his scoring. The ability to play him with another point guard and give an extra ball handler is a strong selling point to those looking to get involved.

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Doesn't sound dissimilar to Keels . . .

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Originally Posted by proelitedota

2019: 4 guards. I don't remember if Cam guarded pgs.

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That team had Tre, who guarded the opposing point 95% of the time he was in, and he was in for 90% of the minutes. When he was out, his replacement was usually Goldwire in the same role. Cam guarded 2-4, usually whomever was the best opposing scorer. He probably could have guarded a PG, but he pretty much never did.

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Originally Posted by tommy

Doesn't sound dissimilar to Keels . . .

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One difference is Keels is #17 in the Summer RSCI while TyTy is #75. I'm not saying that's the be-all-end-all, but there's usually a reason for that type of disparity.

If TyTy Washington chooses Duke with the understanding that on Duke's team he's a developmental/multi-year/8th man type, then I'm all for it. But if he expects to start or play big minutes from the get-go, everyone might be disappointed.

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Originally Posted by Kedsy

One difference is Keels is #17 in the Summer RSCI while TyTy is #75. I'm not saying that's the be-all-end-all, but there's usually a reason for that type of disparity.

If TyTy Washington chooses Duke with the understanding that on Duke's team he's a developmental/multi-year/8th man type, then I'm all for it. But if he expects to start or play big minutes from the get-go, everyone might be disappointed.

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It will be interesting to see where Washington is rated in the final RSCI. He's at 30 in 247's composite rankings, and it sounds like he's a prospect on the rise in his senior year. So I'd guess that he'll be higher in RSCI's final tally. But whether we are talking 25-40 or 40-60 isn't clear at this point.

If it's 25-40, he has a shot to play as the 7th man behind Roach/Steward/Moore (assuming all 3 are back and nobody else comes in). If it's 40-60, it's hard to see him playing a major role as a freshman. It's happened before (Tyler Thornton was lower-rated than that, although he only emerged because Irving got hurt). But it's definitely not the norm.

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Originally Posted by CDu

It will be interesting to see where Washington is rated in the final RSCI. He's at 30 in 247's composite rankings, and it sounds like he's a prospect on the rise in his senior year. So I'd guess that he'll be higher in RSCI's final tally. But whether we are talking 25-40 or 40-60 isn't clear at this point.

If it's 25-40, he has a shot to play as the 7th man behind Roach/Steward/Moore (assuming all 3 are back and nobody else comes in). If it's 40-60, it's hard to see him playing a major role as a freshman. It's happened before (Tyler Thornton was lower-rated than that, although he only emerged because Irving got hurt). But it's definitely not the norm.

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The 247 Composite "history" feature shows Washington having been rated in the 60's-70's coming out of last summer and into this HS season (in Aug-Dec. 2020), but having risen since then up to the 30s. Hard to know how reliable any of the recruiting rankings are in this crazy year.

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Originally Posted by Nugget

The 247 Composite "history" feature shows Washington having been rated in the 60's-70's coming out of last summer and into this HS season (in Aug-Dec. 2020), but having risen since then up to the 30s. Hard to know how reliable any of the recruiting rankings are in this crazy year.

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Or in any year.

TyTy Washington is currently rated #31 on 247, #32 on Rivals, and #34 on ESPN. That's 3 of the main services RSCI uses. The Summer 2020 RSCI rankings had Washington ranked #75. He's clearly risen from fringe 4-star to fringe 5-star recruit territory. I wonder if that has factored into his decision to decommit from Creighton. At any rate, he's opened eyes this year. I'm not sure if Duke will be a good fit, but he's one of several options should Trevor Keels commit to Nova or another school. What little I've seen of Washington, I think his style of play would fit well with what Duke will have next season and beyond. In some ways, he reminds me of DJ Steward with more creative instincts. That is meant as a compliment.

Northeastern point guard Tyson Walker has entered the transfer portal. He averaged 18.8ppg and 4.6apg this year while hitting better than 35% of his 3s. Also averaged 2.4 steals per game and was named CAA Defensive Player of the Year. He dropped 27 on UNC a couple weeks ago and was the best guard on the floor in that game. Easily going to be one of the top transfer players on the market this off-season.

Just a soph... not sure if he can get eligible immediately or if he will have to sit out. NCAA seems all kinda confused about this stuff.

Here is a highlight reel from one of the recent weeks where he was named CAA player of the week:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9PE00RD28o

-Jason "I would love for us to take a look at him" Evans

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Originally Posted by JasonEvans

Northeastern point guard Tyson Walker has entered the transfer portal. He averaged 18.8ppg and 4.6apg this year while hitting better than 35% of his 3s. Also averaged 2.4 steals per game. He dropped 27 on UNC a couple weeks ago and was the best guard on the floor in that game. Easily going to be one of the top transfer players on the market this off-season.

Just a soph... not sure if he can get eligible immediately or if he will have to sit out. NCAA seems all kinda confused about this stuff.

-Jason "I would love for us to take a look at him" Evans

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Oh hell yes. Perfect replacement for Goldwire if he leaves.

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Originally Posted by JasonEvans

Northeastern point guard Tyson Walker has entered the transfer portal. He averaged 18.8ppg and 4.6apg this year while hitting better than 35% of his 3s. Also averaged 2.4 steals per game and was named CAA Defensive Player of the Year. He dropped 27 on UNC a couple weeks ago and was the best guard on the floor in that game. Easily going to be one of the top transfer players on the market this off-season.

Just a soph... not sure if he can get eligible immediately or if he will have to sit out. NCAA seems all kinda confused about this stuff.

Here is a highlight reel from one of the recent weeks where he was named CAA player of the week:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9PE00RD28o

-Jason "I would love for us to take a look at him" Evans

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Any idea why he is transferring?

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Originally Posted by JasonEvans

Northeastern point guard Tyson Walker has entered the transfer portal. He averaged 18.8ppg and 4.6apg this year while hitting better than 35% of his 3s. Also averaged 2.4 steals per game. He dropped 27 on UNC a couple weeks ago and was the best guard on the floor in that game. Easily going to be one of the top transfer players on the market this off-season.

Just a soph... not sure if he can get eligible immediately or if he will have to sit out. NCAA seems all kinda confused about this stuff.

-Jason "I would love for us to take a look at him" Evans

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The last time I can remember a guard dropping multiple 3 pointers on the Heels and then transferring, it was Cameron Johnson. I happened to be watching the game, and Cam Johnson of Pitt couldn’t miss and was scoring from all over the floor. I don’t remember who won the game, but the Carolina fans were ga-ga over Johnson’s shooting. So when he decided to transfer after the season...well, you know the rest of the story.

So today we have discussed transfer guards named TyTy and Tyson. I sense a theme. There has been a lot of talk about our guards being more physical so how about Mike Tyson?

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Originally Posted by CDu

No, the really weren’t. If you call them guards then we have 4 guards next year (Moore and Griffin).

In this discussion, the point was around ballhandling, just FYI.

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I assume you’re familiar with the concept of a Shooting Guard?

I keeeeeed.

I think the issue is just saying “guard.” I tend to thing of bball in 3 buckets: PGs, wings, and post players. Wings can encompass guards like Matt Jones (who is most definitely a guard of the shooting variety...as is Gary Trent) that can slide to the 2 or 1, and wings can encompass forwards who can slide to the post (like Tatum).

FWIW, i think this whole issue is solved if Goldwire comes back and so I’m really hoping he does. He won’t be a freshman who thinks he’s a OAD and must start. And he’ll provide a known, experienced, defensive and steadying presence that the team will need.

I also think our best chance at a deep March run is for Wendell to make a jump as a shooter and playmaker. My guess is he will only get a little better, not a lot, but if he made a real jump that would go a long way. Fully expect DJ to make a jump as he showed signs of being a good shooter (and was known as a solid shooter in HS) and was a good scorer most of the year. Roach...I don’t know. He was never known as a good shooter in HS and seemed to be overmatched physically here. If he develops into a high 30s 3 point shooter (doubtful) then that should open up his driving game, but I’m more skeptical of him making a jump vs. DJ, who I think will be all-acc caliber next year.

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Originally Posted by SilkyJ

I assume you’re familiar with the concept of a Shooting Guard?

I keeeeeed.

I think the issue is just saying “guard.” I tend to thing of bball in 3 buckets: PGs, wings, and post players. Wings can encompass guards like Matt Jones (who is most definitely a guard of the shooting variety...as is Gary Trent) that can slide to the 2 or 1, and wings can encompass forwards who can slide to the post (like Tatum).

FWIW, i think this whole issue is solved if Goldwire comes back and so I’m really hoping he does. He won’t be a freshman who thinks he’s a OAD and must start. And he’ll provide a known, experienced, defensive and steadying presence that the team will need.

I also think our best chance at a deep March run is for Wendell to make a jump as a shooter and playmaker. My guess is he will only get a little better, not a lot, but if he made a real jump that would go a long way. Fully expect DJ to make a jump as he showed signs of being a good shooter (and was known as a solid shooter in HS) and was a good scorer most of the year. Roach...I don’t know. He was never known as a good shooter in HS and seemed to be overmatched physically here. If he develops into a high 30s 3 point shooter (doubtful) then that should open up his driving game, but I’m more skeptical of him making a jump vs. DJ, who I think will be all-acc caliber next year.

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I mean, Trent wasn’t a SG. He was a SF. He played maybe a handful of minutes all season at SG, and only in emergency circumstances at that. Duval, Allen, Goldwire, and O’Connell played the lion’s share of the backcourt minutes. I can’t think of a reasonable criteria for Trent being considered a guard: didn’t defend guards, doesn’t handle the ball, wasn’t playing one of the guard spots. He was a wing, and a SF variety.

As for team needs, we have as many guards as multiple of our title teams of the 2000s. With the talent we should have in the frontcourt - especially the playmaking skills of Banchero and Griffin - our 3-man guard rotation would be plenty.

Would having a 4th guard be nice? Sure, it rarely hurts to have extra guys, especially if they are good. I definitely wouldn’t turn down talent if available. The TyTy Washington kid would be great. Goldwire would be great. Any of several transfer options would be great. But I don’t think it is a problem, because we have so many capable ballhandlers and scorers that having a ton of guards isn’t so critical. We didn’t need a ton of guards in 2001, or 2010, nor 1998 or 1999.

Ultimately, it will come down to talent performing. If the guards we have improve (like you, I expect Steward to be All-ACC; I expect Moore and Roach to be better than they were this year too) and if the freshmen are as good as advertised, we will be VERY good next year.

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Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva

TyTy Washington is currently rated #31 on 247, #32 on Rivals, and #34 on ESPN. That's 3 of the main services RSCI uses. The Summer 2020 RSCI rankings had Washington ranked #75. He's clearly risen from fringe 4-star to fringe 5-star recruit territory. I wonder if that has factored into his decision to decommit from Creighton. At any rate, he's opened eyes this year. I'm not sure if Duke will be a good fit, but he's one of several options should Trevor Keels commit to Nova or another school. What little I've seen of Washington, I think his style of play would fit well with what Duke will have next season and beyond. In some ways, he reminds me of DJ Steward with more creative instincts. That is meant as a compliment.

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Reports are out that Duke has reached out to TyTy already. He's also familiar with Paolo having played against him and Paolo did have a complimentary tweet about him after the decommit.

(Maybe I missed above someone already saying Duke reached out.)

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Originally Posted by CDu

I I can’t think of a reasonable criteria for Trent being considered a guard

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I can think of several, but one aspect that comes to mind is that he was an excellent free throw shooter, I remember seeing his stats in the final minutes of late games and he was something like 95% from the line. So he was always the guy we could give the ball to when clinging to a lead, a very guard-like responsibility which we didn’t have this season and will need to figure out next season. In my mind he’s more of a guard than Moore and certainly Griffin, but reasonable minds can disagree.

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Originally Posted by UrinalCake

I can think of several, but one aspect that comes to mind is that he was an excellent free throw shooter, I remember seeing his stats in the final minutes of late games and he was something like 95% from the line. So he was always the guy we could give the ball to when clinging to a lead, a very guard-like responsibility which we didn’t have this season and will need to figure out next season. In my mind he’s more of a guard than Moore and certainly Griffin, but reasonable minds can disagree.

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Yeah, to be fair to Moore, he is very good from the FT line -- 84.8% this year and over 80% last year. Not the ball handler we would like.