Independence Bowl: Duke 56, Temple 27

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Originally Posted by Acymetric

My wild speculation is that our budget is off from Clemson's by a factor of 10. Maybe as much as 20x the budget. I would be even more confident in that if tuition cost were not included.

Actually, that is an interesting question. Do athletic scholarships for out of state students use out of state tuition costs? The difference in tuition costs would not be at large if so, assuming a significant portion of Clemson's roster is out of state (although there would still be a gap).

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I know Clemson has a far larger budget, but I don't think it's even close to 10x Duke's...especially since our Duke tuition X 85 guys = a boatload of money. (The net being our guys cost more to educate than their guys, private school vs state school).
What I was referring to previously was that back in the Franks/Roof era, we paid those guys (or so I am told) roughly $500k/year. Even back then, that was pitiful. I think Cut came in at around $1.7 million, obviously a hefty increase. I think he's at $2.6M now...
Just as important, staff salaries were upgraded to be competitive, all the other stuff too, like recruiting budget.

Efforts began to upgrade facilities immediately, culminating in the nice indoor practice facility, and the $100 million upgrade to WW which some people insist cost WELL in excess of that.
The net is, we may not spend like Clemson, but we no longer spend like we're impoverished...money spent is competitive.

Bad news.
Adam Rowe
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Duke wide receivers coach Gerad Parker hired by Penn State https://247sports.com/college/duke/A...uke-127646868/ … via @TheDevilsDen

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Originally Posted by BandAlum83

Can you provide any sort of order of magnitude? What are the approximate budgets for our football program vs the big boys, or even the rest of the ACC?

If i'm asking you to do research, sorry. If you have it at your fingertips, great.

I'm not sure I would know where to start. I suppose, also, that as a private institution our budget may not even be readily available (just like we don't know Ks salary, for sure).

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here is quick research from 2016, focusing on Ohio State and comparing:

OSU Total athletics revenue: $169.9 million, second in the nation behind University of Texas’ $182.1 million.

Athletic expenses: $151.86 million, second behind University of Texas’ $155.28 million.

Football revenue: $86.65 million, ninth in nation. University of Texas brought in the most with $127.47 million.

Football expenses: $37.38 million, sixth in nation. University of Alabama spent the most, $56.21 million.

Men’s basketball revenue: $19.87 million, ninth in nation. University of Louisville topped all universities, pulling in $45.63 to nearest competitor, Duke, which brought in $31.03 million.

Men’s basketball expenses: $9.14 million, 23rd in nation. The University of Kentucky and University of Louisville spent the most, $18.91 million and $17.9 million respectively.
(END)

What is obvious is that Duke BB is keeping Duke athletics solvent. It's also obvious that big time football and basketball are bringing in the money that supports ALL other teams. And it's obvious that some schools are on separate planets.

And of course, these figures are 2 years old now....I'm sure the numbers are bigger now.

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Originally Posted by chrishoke

Bad news.
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Duke wide receivers coach Gerad Parker hired by Penn State https://247sports.com/college/duke/A...uke-127646868/ … via @TheDevilsDen

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I'm not sure its bad news, a lot of people were kind of hoping for a change there (and at OL coach).

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Originally Posted by chrishoke

Bad news.
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Duke wide receivers coach Gerad Parker hired by Penn State https://247sports.com/college/duke/A...uke-127646868/ … via @TheDevilsDen

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Originally Posted by Acymetric

I'm not sure its bad news, a lot of people were kind of hoping for a change there (and at OL coach).

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Yeah, I'm with Acy. That could totally be addition by subtraction. I don't want to say it can't get worse, because it could, but someone would have to work at it.

Gerad was making headway in his efforts at Duke. (I was willing to overlook that he played at Kentucky!) His stint as Interim HC at Purdue was good experience to bring to his job at Duke. I wish him the best.

I look forward to seeing who comes in and what changes develop over the next few weeks. I used to worry when football assistants left, but not with Coach Cutcliffe in charge. He's got an extensive network to draw on and usually brings in improvements. The coaches just finished their national meeting this week, so maybe there will be news soon.

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Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred

Yeah, I'm with Acy. That could totally be addition by subtraction. I don't want to say it can't get worse, because it could, but someone would have to work at it.

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I guess that's why Penn State wanted him. :confused:

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Originally Posted by chrishoke

I guess that's why Penn State wanted him. :confused:

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Florida and South Carolina wanted Roper until they didn't.

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Originally Posted by chrishoke

I guess that's why Penn State wanted him. :confused:

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Lot of personal relationships, history, politics go into some staff hirings. He has some coaching experience in the Big Ten, and seems he knew Franklin. Miss State hired Duke's OL coach after last season, and I was not upset with that.

I don't think you can just look at the on field performance of the Duke WRs and rave about the coaching they've been getting. Perhaps you can't blame the coaching either...but certainly the performance has not been there.

Meanwhile, the best coaching job Scottie Montgomery ever did was as WR coach at Duke...I think he's available...

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Originally Posted by Acymetric

Florida and South Carolina wanted Roper until they didn't.

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Then NC State wanted him.

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Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK

Lot of personal relationships, history, politics go into some staff hirings. He has some coaching experience in the Big Ten, and seems he knew Franklin. Miss State hired Duke's OL coach after last season, and I was not upset with that.

I don't think you can just look at the on field performance of the Duke WRs and rave about the coaching they've been getting. Perhaps you can't blame the coaching either...but certainly the performance has not been there.

Meanwhile, the best coaching job Scottie Montgomery ever did was as WR coach at Duke...I think he's available...

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I for one would LOVE to see that - Scottie back as our WR coach!! But that may be too much of a "step down" for him now? May want a OC job at least?

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Originally Posted by -bdbd

I for one would LOVE to see that - Scottie back as our WR coach!! But that may be too much of a "step down" for him now? May want a OC job at least?

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I would love to see that now...and I also agree he would want at least a coordinator position....but I think he was over his head as OC / QB coach and WAAAY over his head as head coach. At least at this juncture of his career.

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Originally Posted by chrishoke

Then NC State wanted him.

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Sure, but as QB coach (a big step down from OC, and NC State is not Florida or SC). HereBefore nailed it above. Do you really think Gerard will be difficult to replace? Do you have any reasons to believe that?

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Originally Posted by Acymetric

Sure, but as QB coach (a big step down from OC, and NC State is not Florida or SC). HereBefore nailed it above. Do you really think Gerard will be difficult to replace? Do you have any reasons to believe that?

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We'll see - I hope you are right.

With regard to Parker, it's always challenging to figure out if a problem is due to lack of talent, lack of coaching, or both. I do know from attending many of our games (and thus being able to watch downfield
to see who gets open) that this graduating trio of wide receivers had major trouble getting separation against mid to high level ACC talent. Rahming had plenty of speed, but he got physically thwarted often.

So I'm not sure where I stand vis a vis Parker, except obviously PSU likes him. I do look forward to our next crop of mostly young receivers (some here now, Young, Garner, Smith, Bobo) and some of the incoming guys, where we
have a lot more size than Lloyd and Rahming provided. The offense may not be better next year, but it will surely look different.

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Originally Posted by budwom

With regard to Parker, it's always challenging to figure out if a problem is due to lack of talent, lack of coaching, or both. I do know from attending many of our games (and thus being able to watch downfield
to see who gets open) that this graduating trio of wide receivers had major trouble getting separation against mid to high level ACC talent. Rahming had plenty of speed, but he got physically thwarted often.

So I'm not sure where I stand vis a vis Parker, except obviously PSU likes him. I do look forward to our next crop of mostly young receivers (some here now, Young, Garner, Smith, Bobo) and some of the incoming guys, where we
have a lot more size than Lloyd and Rahming provided. The offense may not be better next year, but it will surely look different.

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The only thing I lay on the coaching is the dropping of passes, in large numbers, over multiple years. If you can't get open because you're not fast, then you can't get open. If you aren't tall enough to go up and get the jump balls, then you just aren't tall. But hanging onto balls that hit your hands is about 99% mental. It's coaching. It's mental preparation. It's mental toughness.

That Garner kids has proven he can get behind the DBs....and he's tall....but he dropped two sure TDs this year...perfect passes. Someone needs to coach him up, and he'll be a star. I've heard Philyaw-Johnson is even faster (not to my eye, but that's what i've heard)...so someone needs to coach him up too.

If those two burners can mature, there's always Bobo who has great hands already. Could/should be a good crew of wideouts. (did not mention Bracey on purpose...maybe he'll shock us)

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Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK

I've heard Philyaw-Johnson is even faster (not to my eye, but that's what i've heard)...

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Philyaw-Johnson was a track star in high school but we have yet to see that speed translate to the football field. Jarett Garner has proven he is football fast now he has to prove he can catch the ball. I'm optimistic he will.