This one hurts me.
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This one hurts me.
Good grief. Isn't enough enough?
The heavenly class of 2020 is putting together a really strong baseball team and a darned good band.
You're not kidding. Was a fan from the time he joined the Astros until he retired.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemmonsDevil
A powerful hitter in a small package, the Milwaukee Braves fiery manager Bobby Bragan once overturned a buffet table in the visiting clubhouse after a Braves loss to the Astros, yelling "You let yourself get beat by a Little Leaguer!"
Sadly, Houston met him go in a trade, but Joe got to be on World Series champions and become MVP in 1975 and 1976.
As a Cincinnati native and huge Big Red Machine fan, this one definitely hurts. Morgan's average WAR for the Reds over 1972-76 was 9.6, peaking at 11.0 in 1975. He was a truly great all-around player, winning 5 Gold Gloves in addition to being arguably offensive middle infielder of his generation. With all the talent those Reds teams had, it says something that Morgan was the biggest star of them all. A very intelligent and interesting guy, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by sagegrouse
Every couple of days it seems. Seaver. Brock. Gibson. Ford. Now Morgan.
The first former Durham Bull to be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame.
...arguably the best offensive middle infielder of his generation...Quote:
Originally Posted by luvdahops
And a top 5 2nd baseman of all time.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvdahops
The Big Red Machine was at its height just as I was starting to play Little League. I saw many a batter with a twitchy trail elbow at the plate. Only Willie Stargell’s “roundabout” routine was as iconic in the batter’s box during that era.
Hate to hear this news. RIP, Joe.
I was fortunate to catch the end of his playing career and appreciated him as a player. I greatly enjoyed Morgan's work with Jon Miller on ESPN - he clearly was a smart baseball mind but unlike so many announcers today, didn't beat you over the head with it or take himself too seriously. RIP.
I left out Al Kaline.
Morgan didn't get as much publicity as Pete Rose or Johnny Bench. But he was the heart-and-soul of the Big Red Machine.
And like Lou Brock, he was part of an absolutely horrible trade. Why would an expansion team trade Joe Morgan, for crying out loud.
Joe Morgan was one of the greats. I loved watching "The Big Red Machine" and Joe Morgan. He was a terrific announcer as well. 2020 might be the worst year of losing not only great players but great people as well. Just take a look at Jim's list of players.
Prayers for the Morgan family.
RIP Joe.
Bill James had him at the top of the list.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemmonsDevil
Morgan was a favorite of mine, notwithstanding that he played for the Reds. I think he was under-appreciated when he was playing, because he didn't hit for a high average, but he did everything else well.
RIP.
At ten seasons in, I wouldn’t call the Astros an expansion team; their fraternal twin won the WS two seasons earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimsumner
However, your main point of why ANY team would trade a 27 year old quality player like Morgan is questionable. I think it was the Astrodome effect; as probably the worst hitting environment in the league, the main hitting stats were suppressed, and the GMs at the time didn’t always see beyond those. Especially the Astros.
Of course, Morgan went well above his previous performance (relative to the league and taking into account the ballpark effects) in the next six seasons in Cincy. Not sure anybody saw THAT happening. (Following a comment I made about Carlton/Wise,Houston did receive some value in the trade, but unlike Carlton/Wise, it looked lopsided from the start.)
Paraphrasing Bill James, how such a great, intelligent, player could go on to become such a terrible announcer is beyond me.
But he did inspire some of the best criticism of bad baseball journalism available on the internet, from some people who went on to be relatively well-known sitcom writers/creators to boot. Every 6 months or so I go on a kick and spend a half hour scouring the archives for old posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by DU82
The 'Stros got Lee May, a power hitter, who averaged 27 HRs for Houston and around 95 RBIs plus the well-thought of Tommy Helms, as the replacement for Little Joe at second base. Helms hung around for years but had no power and never got walked -- not an offensive force.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimsumner
The Reds were smarter than the Astros back then -- that's clear.
Just re-reading this. Jim, the questionable part I mentioned was the Astros trading Morgan, not your comment! (The engineer often needs somebody to translate his thoughts into English!)Quote:
Originally Posted by DU82
Not as bad as Broglio for Brock. Then again nothing was as bad as Broglio for Brock. That's the fruitcake of baseball trades.Quote:
Originally Posted by sagegrouse
And the Reds had Tony Perez at third just waiting to move to first, while Rose moved to third. Not like they lost anything. I never much rooted for the Big Red Machine but that doesn't mean I didn't respect that firepower. Perez, Morgan, Rose, Foster, Griffey, Bench. And has anyone ever had a better up-the-middle defense than Bench, Concepcion, Morgan and Geronimo?
Maybe; Rizzuto(SS), Martin(2B), Mantle(CF) and Berra(C)? If not as good, it was in the ballpark.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimsumner
Literally. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by jv001