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We went with some really offensively challenged line-ups tonight. Am I crazy for thinking we would have been better off with JRob on the floor paired with Vernon, instead of Javin? Or at the very least pair JRob with Javin to steal a minute or two for Vernon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BD80
NOTHING....EVER...covers a Duke loss....nothing ...
I would trade a ho-hum regular season win for carolina losing a title game any day of the week and twice if they cheated to get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by tteettimes
Mediocre offense combined with really bad defense is a recipe for a road loss to Pomeroy's #77 team.
OFFENSE
Possessions: 73.52 (good pace)
oRtg: 0.97 (1.05 adjusted; poor)
eFG%: 57.4% (not bad, actually)
3pt%: 40.0% (good; 8th 40+ 3pt% in last ten games (and 9th in last 12))
2pt%: 55.9% (pretty good)
%threes: 37.0% (high; but at this success rate, nobody's complaining)
FT rate: 37.0% (good for 3rd straight game)
OR%: 12.5% (pathetic; by far our worst OR performance of the season)
TO%: 20.4% (not good)
a/to: 0.87:1 (also not good)
%assisted: 48.1%
fast break pts: 7 (9.7% of points; disappointing)
DEFENSE
dRtg: 1.08 (adjusted dRtg of 1.06 is putrid; by far our worst dRating of the season, adjusted or otherwise)
eFG%: 64.2% (horrendous)
3pt%: 42.1% (bad)
2pt%: 64.7% (awful)
%threes: 35.8% (not good; only the 6th time this season that an opponent has taken 30+% of shots from three)
FT rate: 41.5% (blech)
DR%: 76.7% (actually very good)
TO%: 21.8% (pretty good; 6th straight defensive TO% of 20+% (and 7th in eight games))
a/to: 1.13:1
%assisted: 60.0%
stl%: 13.6% (good)
blk%: 3.8% (5.9% of 2pt shots) (weak)
fast break pts: 0 (0.0% of points; literally can't get better than this)
An odd game, statistically. Our defense was dreadful, but we gave up zero (0!) fast break points and did well in two of the four factors (DRs & TOs). I guess no matter what else you do, if your opposing eFG% is 64.2%, your D is going to look shoddy. Our offense was good at the other two of the four factors (eFG and FTR), but was poor at TOs and practically nonexistent at ORs, leading to less than mediocre O. Oh well, time to get ready for the next game.
I think I'll be echoing a lot of other thoughts here, but my god, so many things had to go wrong to lose that game. Clemson playing out of their minds on offense, Vernon (and others) missing so many free throws, injuries keeping key players out, a few missed calls in big moments, a stupid number of missed layups, Cassius intentionally playing soft defense and giving up easy buckets because Coach K didn't have the horses to sub him out, and just lackluster effort for the first part of the game that put us in a hole. I'm okay with the loss on those merits, because I think it's almost flukey in certain ways.
Stuff that worries me beyond one loss:
*I'm a little worried that the shine is coming off of Vernon a little bit based on what Banks and Simms have done to him in the GT and Clemson games. For the first time, he's looked young, and there's a certain kind of big man that can really hurt him. God forbid we face many more players like Simms who can shoot, because Vernon is just at sea having to play real perimeter defense. (He's bad at closing out, too.)
*This is the first time in a close game where I really felt like Hurt just didn't have a place in the game, couldn't contribute meaningfully, and was a big liability on defense (again with the close-outs). Even in games where he disappears for a while, you can usually count on him to re-emerge and hit some big shots. Today he wasn't good enough for Coach K to even give him a chance in those situations.
*I've totally given up on O'Connell, and it's not just the obviously bad defense...he simply can't execute on offense, and I don't think he'll have a major role on this team once we get our full roster back.
*Just in general, our rebounding looked weak again, just against GT. They pushed us out of the lane, which you could also see in our offensive impotence inside of 8 minutes.
I really hope Moore heals quickly, because he was deeply missed this game. I'm not sure Baker would have helped much, but Moore would have been critical.
Duke got killed on the offensive boards. We actually killed them on the defensive boards. While it's true they beat us on ORs more than we beat them on DRs, the overall rebounding story was probably pretty close to a wash.Quote:
Originally Posted by dukelifer
Also, for those bemoaning our number of missed layups, I think you all may have been misled by the "quality" of the misses (wide open bricks at inopportune moments). The quantity of misses probably wasn't any more than normal. Coming into the game, Duke averaged 54.2% on two-point shots, and tonight we actually shot better from two (55.9%). And while "two point shot" is clearly not synonymous with "layup," I don't remember so many made two-point jumpers tonight, so in this case I think the numbers probably track.
While Javin didn't do very much tonight, for the season I strongly disagree with your assessment. Statistically, Javin is our best offensive rebounder, our 2nd best defensive rebounder, our 2nd best shotblocker (not counting Justin, who has only played 39 garbage time minutes this season), and is pretty strong at steals. Even his assist rate is good, for a guy who plays mostly center. And lately he's been pretty good at the three things he was doing very poorly to begin the season (shooting percentage, turnovers, and fouls), to the point where his season shooting percentages are good (though not as good as earlier in his career due to the poor start) and his turnover% and fouls per 40 are adequate. In the more esoteric advanced stats, coming into this game his oRating (122.4, 3rd best on the team) and win shares per 40 (.230, 4th best on team) are both strong, his PER (20.8) is more than decent, and his box plus minus (12.4) is excellent (best on the team and probably top 20 nationally if he played enough minutes).Quote:
Originally Posted by ndkjr70
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by ncexnyc
Three main reasons.
(1) Missed layups.
(2) Horrible foul shooting.
(3) Our strongest attribute to date in my opinion, our passing was way off.
I have been a supporter of AOC and see him as having the size, length, quickness and general athleticism to be good as a wing or shooting guard. I think he tries hard but he seems to lack a feel for the game. After this much time, he should have started to turn his potential into results. That hasn't happened often enough and last night he wasn't good. Wendell is not polished but isa much better defender and his presence would have given the team a lift. I don't know if Joey would have had the defensive presence to help us last night but he would at least been able to give our key players more of a rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by DUKIE V(A)
He'd get banned for being an obvious troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
/JK
Down two players, poor shooting, worse defense, missed free throws - perfect storm game
Congrats to Clemson, they earned it under tough circumstances.
In his press conference , K congratulated Clemson for the win and complimented their play and desire. He said Clemson was more deserving of winning. He did not throw his players under the bus nor did he ask his AD to fire him. Just sayin’...
I hear you, but I am not sure our guys are used to playing so many minutes, especially consecutive minutes. Vernon has averaged 24 minutes and last night played 31. Jack averages 19 and played 28. The core 5 that basically played the final 10 minutes of the game (Tre, Goldwire, Cassius, Vern, Jack) all played above their minute totals, some significantly so. And those were hard minutes, most of which involved picking up full court. When winning time came around, everyone showed that fatigue...guards were beating our perimeter guys, we were getting beat for boards, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by gofurman
Simms did play 36, but he averages 31. They play a tighter rotation and those guys are used to that workload.
As with most others on the team, I have loved the depth this year, and I recognize that the depth is actually the team's strength. We are greater then the sum of our parts. These last two games, we are seeing those minutes starting to cluster with more guys over 30 mpg. I am guessing that K is seeing separation, he certainly doesn't think AOC belongs out there (and AOC isn't making a great case that he should be). I think this will be a big theme to watch over the next couple of games...will the depth continue?
Here are K comments from the presser on this subject:
https://goduke.com/documents/2020/1/...h_K_Quotes.pdf
On Tre Jones, minutes and depth:
“You know, he’s done that. Not to bring us back as much as just to lead us. He’s one of the best players in the country. One of the reasons we’ve been good is that we had depth, but we have two kids out right now on the perimeter. I saw it a little bit in the last game and tonight you definitely saw that we are not as good without that depth. That’s basketball, but Tre did a really good job and it’d be nice if we could knock off a few minutes. Up until the last couple games we haven’t had guys in the thirties, but things change and you have to adapt. When you add the number of minutes you can lose some possessions and those are possessions with depth that maybe you win. I’m not sure we would’ve beat them tonight anyways but they played really well. Brad is an outstanding coach and a great guy - they have a heck of a program. To be frank, I am happy for him. When you lose to good guys and a good program, that makes it better.”
sluggish and sated from the win over wake....not very motivated
hopefully the long run home behind the bus from clemson will help motivate them..
Pretty sure the team takes a charter to Clemson(272 mile drive). Note the aerial photo of Clemson athletic complex on DukeMBB twitter yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by moonpie23
For a team as small and as bad at offensive rebounding as Clemson, to have them outrebound us is BAD. They basically matched their season average in offensive rebound percentage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kedsy
Conversely, for a team that lives on the offensive glass like us, to have only a 12.5% OReb% is abysmal. I think it is totally fair to say that they killed us on the glass, especially relative to expectation. That the ACC’s worst OReb team doubled up the best OReb team was a real problem.
I may be blinded by my love for Aussies but I tend to believe Jack when he silently protests a call. He's not the type to complain (never seen it actually) or make a face so when he looks as angry as he did when his last foul was called, I believe him. He was white hot furious.Quote:
Originally Posted by UrinalCake
And agree with UCake, he played well and took a banging inside.
Did he get teary-eyed and lower his voice and fling himself in the pit of despair?Quote:
Originally Posted by TKG
A: it's not about excuses...it's finding reasons it happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by gofurman
B: comparing to Clemson is not applicable...no more than it is applicable to compare to previous Duke teams that were not deep.
A team must be itself....and Duke's identity this year is as a deep team. We were not that last night....could not be due to injuries, and made worse when AOC and Hurt didn't show up. Again, that's not an excuse. But it is a factor, a reason, and it's very applicable.
He did not but I sure did..which is common practice when we lose.._Quote:
Originally Posted by weezie
I had hoped AOC would step up with this opportunity, but it wasn't to be...backdoored, lazy passes, series of mental blunders...like Shane, I too have, regretfully, given up on his play. Loss wasn't his fault (nice team effort) but he should be playing more cerebrally by now.
Meh not bothered about the loss.
Hit our free throws and we probably win.
klumpson were playing out of their minds. Yet another career day for yet another opposition player. Clearly this was their national title game.
As a young team on the road and missing our two wings, we did ok up until the end.
Coach K will make them learn from this and we will improve.