Crypto Conversation

FWIW, “Guy” (as best anyone can tell) is really an actor named Mike Jenkins. He was an English major, and personally profits from growing the popularity of his YouTube postings that hype crypto:

https://techiegamers.com/coin-bureau-guy-net-worth/

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Reports estimate that Guy’s YouTube channel is making between $1,300 and $21,000 per month. This adds up to a yearly income of $15,800 to $252,100. The channel is also supported by affiliate marketing.

They receive extra revenue with Binance’s affiliate program as well as selling their own merch. Their website is also active, posting articles almost every day. This is why Coin Bureau Guy has an estimated net worth of $2 million in 2022.

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Not exactly an impartial or qualified source.

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Originally Posted by OldPhiKap

FWIW, “Guy” (as best anyone can tell) is really an actor named Mike Jenkins. He was an English major, and personally profits from growing the popularity of his YouTube postings that hype crypto:

https://techiegamers.com/coin-bureau-guy-net-worth/



Not exactly an impartial or qualified source.

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Yes, he’s an entertainer and YouTuber out to make a profit.

That doesn’t make the points he brings up any less valid to be considered by those who are interested/concerned about the future of a digital monetary system, does it?

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Originally Posted by OldPhiKap

FWIW, “Guy” (as best anyone can tell) is really an actor named Mike Jenkins. He was an English major, and personally profits from growing the popularity of his YouTube postings that hype crypto:

https://techiegamers.com/coin-bureau-guy-net-worth/



Not exactly an impartial or qualified source.

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Thanks for the info, not that I wouldn't have been skeptical anyway. I do have to say that the absurd range the link gave for the channel's income cracked me up. Just say "he makes money but we don't know how much." ;)

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Originally Posted by Acymetric

I do have to say that the absurd range the link gave for the channel's income cracked me up. Just say "he makes money but we don't know how much." ;)

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Yeah, I thought that was pretty weak.

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Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/"

Yes, he’s an entertainer and YouTuber out to make a profit.

That doesn’t make the points he brings up any less valid to be considered by those who are interested/concerned about the future of a digital monetary system, does it?

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Aren’t you skeptical of a source with no economic credentials, who has a personal financial interest in selling the product?

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Originally Posted by OldPhiKap

Yeah, I thought that was pretty weak.



Aren’t you skeptical of a source with no economic credentials, who has a personal financial interest in selling the product?

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No. I’m focused on the points he makes in his argument. I will listen to anybody, and make my own decisions about the quality of the information.

I don’t care who brings up these points we have to consider with the future of central bank digital currencies. The questions about the potential lack of personal spending freedoms, and who controls private information, and what they do with it, is very relevant

Edit to add…you do realize all the traditional media content we consume is also driven by profit these days, right?

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Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/"

No. I’m focused on the points he makes in his argument. I will listen to anybody, and make my own decisions about the quality of the information.

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So I assume, since you posted it, that you consider a guy using a fake name on YouTube to hawk a product to be a quality source of information, despite his lack of any economic background and a clear profit incentive to pump crypto? I have trouble getting over this initial hurdle.

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Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/"

I don’t care who brings up these points we have to consider with the future of central bank digital currencies. The questions about the potential lack of personal spending freedoms, and who controls private information, and what they do with it, is very relevant

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As a libertarian, I am sympathetic to all of this in the abstract. We differ on whether crypto, or BTC particularly, provides a workable alternative beyond being able to perform anonymous transactions. And I find little need for that besides buying drugs, collecting ransoms, and running my huge porn empire. Other than that, why do I care if Amex knows the merchants with which I’ve dealt? (If I was worried about that, I’d just use cash — like I do currently for drugs, ransoms, and porn).

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Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/"

Edit to add…you do realize all the traditional media content we consume is also driven by profit these days, right?

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Sure, which is why I think anyone taking political advice from a cable news network opinion anchor is crazy. But surely you’re not comparing the WSJ, the NYT, Reuters, the BBC, and countless other legitimate news outlets as equivalent to a YouTube influencer? If so, that’s a “whataboutism “ step too far for me.

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Originally Posted by OldPhiKap

So I assume, since you posted it, that you consider a guy using a fake name on YouTube to hawk a product to be a quality source of information, despite his lack of any economic background and a clear profit incentive to pump crypto? I have trouble getting over this initial hurdle.

I don’t see “Guy” as hawking any product, he’s hawking an opinion as entertainment for our consideration, right?

As a libertarian, I am sympathetic to all of this in the abstract. We differ on whether crypto, or BTC particularly, provides a workable alternative beyond being able to perform anonymous transactions. And I find little need for that besides buying drugs, collecting ransoms, and running my huge porn empire. Other than that, why do I care if Amex knows the merchants with which I’ve dealt? (If I was worried about that, I’d just use cash — like I do currently for drugs, ransoms, and porn).

:) but that cash is hard to transport in any significant way for your, um, personal purchases. I want to use my phones digital wallet, and I don’t want anyone telling me what I can, or can’t buy, without criminal due process, of course.


Sure, which is why I think anyone taking political advice from a cable news network opinion anchor is crazy. But surely you’re not comparing the WSJ, the NYT, Reuters, the BBC, and countless other legitimate news outlets as equivalent to a YouTube influencer? If so, that’s a “whataboutism “ step too far for me.

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Forget about Guy the messenger, he’s irrelevant. Look at the message.

Can we trust governments and centralized banks with the powers a CBDC would bestow on them?

Personally, I’m very leery.

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Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/"

Forget about Guy the messenger, he’s irrelevant. Look at the message.

Can we trust governments and centralized banks with the powers a CBDC would bestow on them?

Personally, I’m very leery.

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I am fine with “Guy” being an entertainer. But his videos are held out as authoritative. That is dangerous, and the lack of disclosure of his conflict of interest in the video is alarming IMO.

No one is telling us what we can and cannot buy with a credit card, unless we are buying something illegal. If the reason for using crypto is to evade the law, I don’t see that as a selling point for widespread adoption. Rather, that is exactly the point critics are making.

Do I trust governments and centralized banks to work towards stable currencies and smooth trade, as opposed to “Satoshi Nakamoto” and a wholly unregulated asset? It may be the lesser of two evils, but yeah I kinda do. Plus, crypto can never be seen as a widely-used currency until it is regulated — and those same institutions you are worried about are the ones who will do it, no?

Oh, and I would be remiss if I didn’t wish you a happy Fourth of July. I hope the weather is good and the fishing is hot.

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Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/"

The Lightning Network is growing….and working today?

Scalability. Capable of millions to billions of transactions per second across the network. Capacity blows away legacy payment rails by many orders of magnitude. Attaching payment per action/click is now possible without custodians.

Lightning Network Explained

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But as snowdenscold said it's:

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2) A centralized (with serious security and availability concerns) architecture with many more complex pieces added which relies on several trusted third parties and basically ends up re-creating the exact same banking structures we have today... and you can no longer even say "but it's on a blockchain."

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That's the problem with the Lightning Network. It doesn't matter that it maybe cheaper today.

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Originally Posted by OldPhiKap

I am fine with “Guy” being an entertainer. But his videos are held out as authoritative. That is dangerous, and the lack of disclosure of his conflict of interest in the video is alarming IMO.

No one is telling us what we can and cannot buy with a credit card, unless we are buying something illegal. If the reason for using crypto is to evade the law, I don’t see that as a selling point for widespread adoption. Rather, that is exactly the point critics are making.

Do I trust governments and centralized banks to work towards stable currencies and smooth trade, as opposed to “Satoshi Nakamoto” and a wholly unregulated asset? It may be the lesser of two evils, but yeah I kinda do. Plus, crypto can never be seen as a widely-used currency until it is regulated — and those same institutions you are worried about are the ones who will do it, no?

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At the beginning of every video he does a big disclaimer, not sure where you see him as attempting to be “authoritative”? Looks to me he’s done some research and is just offering an opinion.

You’d be trusting an the words largest, open sourced, decentralized computer network with Bitcoin as your store of value, not Satoshi or whoever it was that created the blockchain.

So….Your trust is in the stable currencies and smooth trade like we have now? :)

We need to separate money from state, imo. There’s no need for the state to set the value of a currency free people chose to use for their service or trade.

Pay the state fair taxes for infrastructure, defense, education, etc… and be sure those transactions don’t violate applicable laws.

Other than that, I’d like to see governments get out of the way of my money.

It won’t be a worry about who allows you to spend your money as you see fit, until it is. Don’t give anyone that control in the first place and we won’t have to worry about it.

We have cash, for now, but that won’t be around much longer.

https://lightning.network

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Originally Posted by Kdogg

But as snowdenscold said it's:


That's the problem with the Lightning Network. It doesn't matter that it maybe cheaper today.

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How do you come to the conclusion that the Lightning network is centralized?

It appears very decentralized to me.

Cross Blockchains. Cross-chain atomic swaps can occur off-chain instantly with heterogeneous blockchain consensus rules. So long as the chains can support the same cryptographic hash function, it is possible to make transactions across blockchains without trust in 3rd party custodians.

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Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/"

How to you come to the conclusion that the Lightning network is centralized?

It appears very decentralized to me.

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Because it's an off chain transaction between two (or more) individuals that is opaque and without the security of the Bitcoin network. I've gone over it and now so has snowdenscold who has come to a similar conclusion.

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Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/"

The Lightning Network is growing….and working today?

Scalability. Capable of millions to billions of transactions per second across the network. Capacity blows away legacy payment rails by many orders of magnitude. Attaching payment per action/click is now possible without custodians.

Lightning Network Explained

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Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/"

https://lightning.network

How to you come to the conclusion that the Lightning network is centralized?

It appears very decentralized to me.

Cross Blockchains. Cross-chain atomic swaps can occur off-chain instantly with heterogeneous blockchain consensus rules. So long as the chains can support the same cryptographic hash function, it is possible to make transactions across blockchains without trust in 3rd party custodians.

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Wheat, did you read any of the links I posted in my most recent post? Because I actually read both of yours, though they did nothing to change my mind or address anything in my links. Your initial "nasdaq" article (really just a re-print / cross-publish from Bitcoin magazine) talk of channel capacity was a big "so what?".

Also, this made the rounds a couple weeks ago, but still worth a couple minutes of your time.

https://twitter.com/liron/status/1533214640460574720

and also found a YT link if that's preferred: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKaewTQ8RwA

Really picks at the idea of how far can you separate money and smart contracts from government, when it's the latter that has the enforcement powers to actually take action in the physical world.

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Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/"

At the beginning of every video he does a big disclaimer, not sure where you see him as attempting to be “authoritative”? Looks to me he’s done some research and is just offering an opinion.

You’d be trusting an the words largest, open sourced, decentralized computer network with Bitcoin as your store of value, not Satoshi or whoever it was that created the blockchain.

So….Your trust is in the stable currencies and smooth trade like we have now? :)

We need to separate money from state, imo. There’s no need for the state to set the value of a currency free people chose to use for their service or trade.

Pay the state fair taxes for infrastructure, defense, education, etc… and be sure those transactions don’t violate applicable laws.

Other than that, I’d like to see governments get out of the way of my money.

It won’t be a worry about who allows you to spend your money as you see fit, until it is. Don’t give anyone that control in the first place and we won’t have to worry about it.

We have cash, for now, but that won’t be around much longer.

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If you don’t think “Guy” is running a con, we just see that video very differently. Which is fine.

The current monetary system, while not perfect, seems preferable from an economic perspective than global reliance on an opaque and unproven system. Again, if we differ that’s fine.

Love or hate the government — who do you think is going to regulate BTC? As long as it remains unregulated, isn’t it just a speculative asset? (Which again is fine — but let’s not kid ourselves that it is a serious currency alternative then).

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Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/"

Happy 4th, a good day to remember freedom is not free.

Keep a watchful eye on the future developments of the digital world, especially when it comes to your personal monetary freedoms.

Good ‘ole Guy has a video here that should make you think about the future of money.

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Problem with the content:

At the start it claims BIS meeting of all 63 members is rare and only in times of crisis. FALSE. BIS actually has an annual meeting...wait for it...EVER YEAR.
https://www.bis.org/events/agm_info.htm

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26 Jun 2022
92nd Annual General Meeting
29 Jun 2021
91st Annual General Meeting
30 Jun 2020
90th Annual General Meeting
30 Jun 2019
89th Annual General Meeting
24 Jun 2018
88th Annual General Meeting

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They also hold bimonthly meetings in...wait for it...Basil.

If you are starting off with a falsehood everything that follows is suspect (also he's from Hackney but that's my personal prejudice). This whole video plays on fears and conspiracies to generate views. Also if anyone equates central banks ensuring liquidity as "money printing" they are...to be kind...uniformed. Central bank monetary policies expand and contract the money supply so both "printing" and "burning." It's a two way street.

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Originally Posted by Kdogg

(also he's from Hackney but that's my personal prejudice).

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Not even Upper Clapton? I mean, Hagerston, sure….

(Oh, and I agree with the rest)

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Originally Posted by OldPhiKap

I have trouble getting over this initial hurdle.

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You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know.

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Originally Posted by OldPhiKap

Not even Upper Clapton? I mean, Hagerston, sure….

(Oh, and I agree with the rest)

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Islington Forever!