Succession: Season 4 discussion

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Originally Posted by Steven43

Those three numbskull Roy children are absolutely horrible negotiators. These idiots appear to have thrown away 3-4 billion dollars that they likely could have kept had they not been so stupid.

Watching their pathetic attempts at “negotiation“ made me really agitated.

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And you know they can't possibly run the company with any competence, right? Their self delusional idiocy is central to the tale...you can see how the few adults in the room, like Geri (spelling) regard them: like the spoiled morons they are.

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Originally Posted by JasonEvans

I had not really thought about it when I was lamenting the foolish overpay by the offspring, but I guess we are supposed to think of the kids as incompetent fools.

Kendall has been beleaguered by addiction and depression throughout the show. Ken has seemed competent and smart a few times, but mostly flounders around trying look cooler than he actually is. Even going back to episode 1, when he was supposed to be buying that website or content creator or whatever that was, he seemed in over his head.

Roman appears too largely be comic relief. After the fiasco with the failed missile launch and him texting his junk to Gerri, only to accidentally send it to his dad instead, Roman cannot be taken seriously. Frankly, I can't believe his siblings were treating him like an equal in forming The 100 and then buying Pierce.

Shiv seemed like the most adept and smartest member of the family in season one, but has steadily gone downhill since then. I've seen little from her lately to indicate she has real business smarts. She should probably go back to Democratic politics. Her treatment of Tom last season only added to the audience resentment of her.

So, if the kids are all idiots, who are we rooting for in all this (cause we sure as heck ain't supposed to be rooting for Logan)?

I feel like this is gonna end like Game of Thrones, with Bran (Greg) being handed control of the empire.

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I disagree. Roman seems to have the most actual sense of any of the siblings. Which isn't saying much. I think he "gets" business more then his siblings even if he doesn't have the lingo or education.

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Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15

I disagree. Roman seems to have the most actual sense of any of the siblings. Which isn't saying much. I think he "gets" business more then his siblings even if he doesn't have the lingo or education.

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or focus. He'll make a decent observation then discuss heading home for self gratification...

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Originally Posted by budwom

or focus. He'll make a decent observation then discuss heading home for self gratification...

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Which is probably why his siblings keep inviting him to these meetings. Logan recognizes his abilities - he was sent on tricky assignments by the old man more than once back when they were talking to each other. And remember, it's Roman that Kerry calls trying to get the kids to wish Dad a Happy Birthday. Logan also recognizes Roman's sizeable weaknesses.

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Originally Posted by budwom

or focus. He'll make a decent observation then discuss heading home for self gratification...

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Isn't that what you typically do?

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Originally Posted by Bostondevil

Which is probably why his siblings keep inviting him to these meetings. Logan recognizes his abilities - he was sent on tricky assignments by the old man more than once back when they were talking to each other. And remember, it's Roman that Kerry calls trying to get the kids to wish Dad a Happy Birthday. Logan also recognizes Roman's sizeable weaknesses.

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I think Kerry keeps calling because she and Logan know that Roman is the sibling most likely to turn on the others and the one who is most craving of his father's attention.

That said, if Logan called up Shiv or Ken and said, "stick a knife in the back of your brother/sister and I will make you my successor," Shiv/Ken would ask "how big a knife do you want it to be?"

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Originally Posted by JasonEvans

I think Kerry keeps calling because she and Logan know that Roman is the sibling most likely to turn on the others and the one who is most craving of his father's attention.

That said, if Logan called up Shiv or Ken and said, "stick a knife in the back of your brother/sister and I will make you my successor," Shiv/Ken would ask "how big a knife do you want it to be?"

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I don’t think her name is a coincidence considering that the literal definition of “shiv” is a knife or razor used as a weapon.

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Originally Posted by JasonEvans

I think Kerry keeps calling because she and Logan know that Roman is the sibling most likely to turn on the others and the one who is most craving of his father's attention.

That said, if Logan called up Shiv or Ken and said, "stick a knife in the back of your brother/sister and I will make you my successor," Shiv/Ken would ask "how big a knife do you want it to be?"

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Granted we are talking about fictional people here, so, the writers can do anything they want, but, thinking about the characters we have seen so far - I disagree. IMHO, Roman is the least likely to turn on the others. He's the one who argued the hardest for keeping focus on The Hundred. He was the one actually doing some work in one of the scenes, silly as it was, trying to pick a logo. He would much rather establish his own thing, the others are more interested in sticking it to Daddy and would therefore, IMHO, be more likely to stick it to other family members.

Roman was absolutely correct with his analysis of those terrible logos, btw. Did someone get paid to come up with that crap? (Although, that would have been a fun job assignment for whatever graphical designer was hired by HBO. I'm imagining the job specs now: Generate 3-5 unimaginative, boring, and all around horrible logos for a fictional company called The Hundred.)

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Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15

I disagree. Roman seems to have the most actual sense of any of the siblings. Which isn't saying much. I think he "gets" business more then his siblings even if he doesn't have the lingo or education.

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Yes, he was the counter voice of reason that his siblings easily shot down throughout the episode. As another aspect of his character, I'd say his relationship with Geri, though freaky and not socially acceptable, is more honest, mutual, and respectful than the romantic relationships of any of his siblings. Roman's weaknesses, however, always end up getting the better of him.

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Originally Posted by budwom

or focus. He'll make a decent observation then discuss heading home for self gratification...

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You, my friend, have a way with euphemisms.

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Originally Posted by bundabergdevil

You, my friend, have a way with euphemisms.

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Yeah, I was a bit taken aback by budwom even mentioning that because I assumed that’s what everybody does.

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Originally Posted by bundabergdevil

You, my friend, have a way with euphemisms.

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just trying to catch the essence (uh oh) of Roman, this is who he is, this is his priority. Not sure he has much time to run a company...

Late to watching Ep 1, but glad this is the final season. If I were asked to make a parody of Succession, I think that episode is what I would create. Aside from Roman who actually seemed like a reasonable human in that episode, everyone else was a caricature of themselves, from Kendal’s “substack meets masterclass meets economist meets New Yorker” line to Tom’s sniveling to Logan and then bullying Greg, to Greg’s “I’m an honorary kid” whining, to Connor spending $100m to save the “respectability” of 1% to Tom and Shiv’s broken marriage - all just seemed more of the same to me, but lazier. The lunch parody was better. Will see where the season goes.

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Originally Posted by mkirsh

Late to watching Ep 1, but glad this is the final season. If I were asked to make a parody of Succession, I think that episode is what I would create. Aside from Roman who actually seemed like a reasonable human in that episode, everyone else was a caricature of themselves, from Kendal’s “substack meets masterclass meets economist meets New Yorker” line to Tom’s sniveling to Logan and then bullying Greg, to Greg’s “I’m an honorary kid” whining, to Connor spending $100m to save the “respectability” of 1% to Tom and Shiv’s broken marriage - all just seemed more of the same to me, but lazier. The lunch parody was better. Will see where the season goes.

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You aren’t wrong. While I enjoyed episode 1 for other reasons I also was bothered by the writers resorting to caricatures. In particular Connor sharing his desperation to hold onto his 1% seemed absurd. Not that I doubt him having that need. But it is a humiliating place to be - hardly something he would say out loud at a party. I also found the naive and impulsive business strategizing by the kids to be exaggerated beyond credibility. But while those things tarnished the episode I still enjoyed it. So much other good stuff going on, so many good lines, such good acting.

I thought episode two was incredible. I will discuss more after folks have the chance to catch up.

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Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15

I thought episode two was incredible. I will discuss more after folks have the chance to catch up.

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Oh noooo! I forgot all about a new episode of Succession last night. 😞

My wife and I are heavily into Bloodline right now, which distracted me from thinking about Succession. Waiting a week for each new show is tough; you get out of rhythm.

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Originally Posted by Steven43

Oh noooo! I forgot all about a new episode of Succession last night. 😞

My wife and I are heavily into Bloodline right now, which distracted me from thinking about Succession. Waiting a week for each new show is tough; you get out of rhythm.

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You're not bad people, but you did a bad thing...

Loved Bloodline (season 1 at least). My brother got married at the Moorings resort on Islamorada which was beautiful.

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Originally Posted by mkirsh

The lunch parody was better.

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Dude, that was amazing!!

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Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15

I thought episode two was incredible. I will discuss more after folks have the chance to catch up.

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I am not so kind. I will discuss now!!

The whole family ending up in a karaoke bar... I did not have that on my bingo card. I just wish Logan had stood up and belted, "I Left My Heart In San Francisco" or something like that.

Connor... whew, what a sad existence he lives. Was there anyone at his rehearsal dinner at all before his thee younger siblings showed up like 2 hours late? How much of a heel is Logan that he wasn't even at his oldest son's rehearsal dinner?!?! And no one seems to care that the wedding is tomorrow. I doubt Logan even shows up. That speech about not needing love being his superpower was Emmy-award winning stuff from Alan Ruck. Meanwhile, I hope all of you caught Roman sliding in jokes left and right about Willa being paid to be Connor's wife... that was cold!

So, help me understand what happened with Kendall toward the back half of the ep. He gets a call from Mattson who says, "if you guys ask for more, I am going to walk," and it sure sounds like Mattson means it. Then, Ken gets a text from Stewie with some charts of some compatibles (really? So the Roy family didn't do any industry comps when thinking about selling their company?!?!) and promptly goes back inside to announce that he wants to push Mattson for more money. Huh? Are we supposed to think he did not believe Mattson's threat or is he trying to scuttle the deal?

I'm not really feeling why the siblings are so gung ho to throw a wrench in the deal. Ken said it could mean an extra $100 mil to each of them but they are due to get a couple bill each from the sale, right? How does $100 mil really move the needle for them? What's more, if the deal gets put on hold, it is going to make it really tough for them to purchase Pierce. Seems like they are putting their bigger deal in jeopardy just so they can squeeze a little bit more out of Mattson.

So, the whole "lets push for more money" thing started with Shiv, right? We saw her call Sandi (not to be confused with her father, Sandy) and suggest that they partner up to push Mattson. Is Shiv gunning to shut down the whole deal?

Lastly, while it made for some nice comedic moments, I can't believe that Kerry is so foolish as to think she is ready to be an anchor on ATN. I feel like we have been given the impression that Kerry is smart and manipulative and has managed to get herself pretty far up the food chain at Royco. So how could she be so lacking in self-awareness that her audition tape is that hysterically bad? And I would think anything that takes her away from Roy's side is a bad move at this point because being close to him is her strongest trump card.

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Originally Posted by JasonEvans

I am not so kind. I will discuss now!!

The whole family ending up in a karaoke bar... I did not have that on my bingo card. I just wish Logan had stood up and belted, "I Left My Heart In San Francisco" or something like that.

Connor... whew, what a sad existence he lives. Was there anyone at his rehearsal dinner at all before his thee younger siblings showed up like 2 hours late? How much of a heel is Logan that he wasn't even at his oldest son's rehearsal dinner?!?! And no one seems to care that the wedding is tomorrow. I doubt Logan even shows up. That speech about not needing love being his superpower was Emmy-award winning stuff from Alan Ruck. Meanwhile, I hope all of you caught Roman sliding in jokes left and right about Willa being paid to be Connor's wife... that was cold!

So, help me understand what happened with Kendall toward the back half of the ep. He gets a call from Mattson who says, "if you guys ask for more, I am going to walk," and it sure sounds like Mattson means it. Then, Ken gets a text from Stewie with some charts of some compatibles (really? So the Roy family didn't do any industry comps when thinking about selling their company?!?!) and promptly goes back inside to announce that he wants to push Mattson for more money. Huh? Are we supposed to think he did not believe Mattson's threat or is he trying to scuttle the deal?

I'm not really feeling why the siblings are so gung ho to throw a wrench in the deal. Ken said it could mean an extra $100 mil to each of them but they are due to get a couple bill each from the sale, right? How does $100 mil really move the needle for them? What's more, if the deal gets put on hold, it is going to make it really tough for them to purchase Pierce. Seems like they are putting their bigger deal in jeopardy just so they can squeeze a little bit more out of Mattson.

So, the whole "lets push for more money" thing started with Shiv, right? We saw her call Sandi (not to be confused with her father, Sandy) and suggest that they partner up to push Mattson. Is Shiv gunning to shut down the whole deal?

Lastly, while it made for some nice comedic moments, I can't believe that Kerry is so foolish as to think she is ready to be an anchor on ATN. I feel like we have been given the impression that Kerry is smart and manipulative and has managed to get herself pretty far up the food chain at Royco. So how could she be so lacking in self-awareness that her audition tape is that hysterically bad? And I would think anything that takes her away from Roy's side is a bad move at this point because being close to him is her strongest trump card.

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Regarding Kendall, I think his actions after the call with Mattson confirm that he wants to tank the deal. Either deep-down he doesn't believe he can succeed out on his own, or he simply wants to stick it to Logan. Perhaps both. Shiv 100% wants the deal to fail. Unsure of her motivations other than to piss off Logan.