Tracking the Duke transfers (Joey Baker, Henry Coleman, Jaemyn Brakefield)

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Originally Posted by azzefkram

Without knowing the players personally, I don't see how anyone can make a statement as to said players' Duke enthusiasm. As for PT, Henry was looking at going from a (lightly used) backup as a freshman to a backup's backup as a sophomore. That's a huge ask. I have no idea if Henry was already considering leaving or if Theo coming pushed him out the door, but the timing is a tad suspicious. Do you think Ryan decides to compete for minutes if Dereck, Flip, and Henry are at Duke?



I could easily see a junior Henry getting 20+ minutes a game here, given that he is playing 26 on an arguably better team.



Coleman wasn't willing to be a backup's backup as a sophomore. Again, a huge ask. Also, it is highly suspect to assume that Young would choose to be a backup's backup at Duke (which is what he would have been if Henry was still on the roster).

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What do you mean a backup's backup? Henry probably would've been Paolo's backup at PF last year. Who else would he have behind at his natural position?

And even if Henry was still on the roster this season, Ryan Young could still have come in and been the backup to Lively at center. How would Ryan have been a "backup's backup" either?

Also, what causes you to think the Aggies (currently sitting at 40 in the NET with a Quad 3 and a Quad 4 loss) are even arguably a better team than Duke to this point?

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Originally Posted by tommy

What do you mean a backup's backup? Henry probably would've been Paolo's backup at PF last year. Who else would he have behind at his natural position?

And even if Henry was still on the roster this season, Ryan Young could still have come in and been the backup to Lively at center. How would Ryan have been a "backup's backup" either?

Also, what causes you to think the Aggies (currently sitting at 40 in the NET with a Quad 3 and a Quad 4 loss) are even arguably a better team than Duke to this point?

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I would have to check with Kedsy on this, but K rarely played 4 bigs. Mark, Paolo, and Theo would have been ahead of him on the depth chart. Ryan would have been a backup's backup for much the same reason (though Jon's rotational preference was/is a wild card). Aggies are 24th on Torvik while Duke is 41st.

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Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie

I am still trying to figure out where he went and how he completely dropped off the grid. I have asked some people who I thought might have some inside info and have gotten nothing. He has a pretty unique name so one would think he would turn up on Google. I had heard rumors he was doing something similar to Savarino (grad school and playing at a lower level school) but then he would be on a roster and I don't think he is unless he changed his name.

That being said, Duke basketball is a huge commitment. It is obviously a dream for all of us. But at some point, there might be a sense of "been there, done that" and he might have been ready to move on. I'm just curious where he moved on to.

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I watched the 30 for 30 about Houston's Phi Slamma Jamma team, and the plot was a search for Benny Anders. Apparently, he dropped off the map, and his teammates didn't know where is was. I won't give it away if people haven't watched it. But if you saw Houston back in the day, it's an interesting documentary.

Someday, if we can't find a clue online, it would be interesting to know just what happened to Worthington. Maybe he gave up on ball. Maybe he failed out. Maybe he's taking a gap year. Maybe Blakes knows as they were teammates in high school. Probably no one will make a documentary, but maybe a Duke "Where is He Now?"...

Where, where the hell is Keenan? Where, where the hell is Keenan?
Maybe he went to get an Air Force parka
Maybe he went to get a Vespa scooter
Maybe he want to get a British flag
Maybe he went to go mod ska dancing
(apologies, Camper Van Beethoven. And I hope the guy is OK, wherever he is).

9F

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Originally Posted by azzefkram

I would have to check with Kedsy on this, but K rarely played 4 bigs. Mark, Paolo, and Theo would have been ahead of him on the depth chart. Ryan would have been a backup's backup for much the same reason (though Jon's rotational preference was/is a wild card). Aggies are 24th on Torvik while Duke is 41st.

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Coach K has certainly played 4 bigs in the past, including last year (Williams, Banchero, John, Jones/Griffin). Notable other examples include 2021 (Hurt, Johnson/Coleman, Williams, Brakefield), 2018 (Bagley, Carter, DeLaurier, Bolden), 2013 (Plumlee, Kelly, Jefferson, Hairston), 2012 (Plumlees, Kelly, Hairston), and 2010 (Zoubek, Thomas, both Plumlees).

Basically, whenever he has centers who can't double as PFs, he has to either play a fourth big or a SF at PF to back up the PF spot. But we've certainly played four bigs.

As for last year specifically, Bates Jones averaged about 4 mpg last year (accounting for DNPs), and those minutes would have surely gone to Coleman had he been here. Also, some of Griffin's PF minutes would probably have gone to Coleman too.

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Originally Posted by CDu

Coach K has certainly played 4 bigs in the past, including last year (Williams, Banchero, John, Jones/Griffin). Notable other examples include 2021 (Hurt, Johnson/Coleman, Williams, Brakefield), 2018 (Bagley, Carter, DeLaurier, Bolden), 2013 (Plumlee, Kelly, Jefferson, Hairston), 2012 (Plumlees, Kelly, Hairston), and 2010 (Zoubek, Thomas, both Plumlees).

Basically, whenever he has centers who can't double as PFs, he has to either play a fourth big or a SF at PF to back up the PF spot. But we've certainly played four bigs.

As for last year specifically, Bates Jones averaged about 4 mpg last year (accounting for DNPs), and those minutes would have surely gone to Coleman had he been here. Also, some of Griffin's PF minutes would probably have gone to Coleman too.

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I am not sure many players would consider 4 mpg "playing", but YMMV. 2018 and 2010 are not bad examples. The others not so much. 2021 had the Johnson weirdness. 2013 had Kelly missing 13 games in the middle of the season. 2012 had Hairston barely playing. It would seem that the 4th big is more of a break glass in case of emergency player than an actual player. Henry filled that role as a freshman and was looking at getting rotation minutes prior to Theo coming on board.

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Originally Posted by azzefkram

I am not sure many players would consider 4 mpg "playing", but YMMV. 2018 and 2010 are not bad examples. The others not so much. 2021 had the Johnson weirdness. 2013 had Kelly missing 13 games in the middle of the season. 2012 had Hairston barely playing. It would seem that the 4th big is more of a break glass in case of emergency player than an actual player. Henry filled that role as a freshman and was looking at getting rotation minutes prior to Theo coming on board.

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I didn't say those 4 minutes were the only minutes. Just that they all would have gone to Coleman rather than to the walk-on level player that got them.

And while 2021 had the Johnson weirdness, that's irrelevant. When Johnson played, the four bigs were Hurt, Johnson, Williams, and Brakefield. When Johnson was out, the four bigs were Hurt, Williams, Brakefield, and Coleman. In both cases, we had a four-big rotation.

In 2013, Kelly missed 13 games. But even without that, we still played 4 bigs. It just would have meant no minutes for guys like Zafirovski and Murphy, and fewer than the 13 mpg that Hairston and Jefferson each got. But Jefferson and Hairston would have still played in the 8-10 mpg range.

So clearly Coach K has done it, numerous times in fact. And more pertinent to the point, he would have done it last year too. The fact that we played Bates Jones - a walk-on caliber player - 4 mpg just illustrates this fact.

Coleman wouldn't have played major minutes. But he'd have probably played every game and would have averaged 8-10 mpg, solidly in the rotation as a backup. He just preferred not to have that role.

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Originally Posted by CDu

I didn't say those 4 minutes were the only minutes. Just that they all would have gone to Coleman rather than to the walk-on level player that got them.

And while 2021 had the Johnson weirdness, that's irrelevant. When Johnson played, the four bigs were Hurt, Johnson, Williams, and Brakefield. When Johnson was out, the four bigs were Hurt, Williams, Brakefield, and Coleman. In both cases, we had a four-big rotation.

In 2013, Kelly missed 13 games. But even without that, we still played 4 bigs. It just would have meant no minutes for guys like Zafirovski and Murphy, and fewer than the 13 mpg that Hairston and Jefferson each got. But Jefferson and Hairston would have still played in the 8-10 mpg range.

So clearly Coach K has done it, numerous times in fact. And more pertinent to the point, he would have done it last year too. The fact that we played Bates Jones - a walk-on caliber player - 4 mpg just illustrates this fact.

Coleman wouldn't have played major minutes. But he'd have probably played every game and would have averaged 8-10 mpg, solidly in the rotation as a backup. He just preferred not to have that role.

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You are way too liberal with your definition of rotation. Coleman was not in the rotation at 4 mpg in 2021. Amile was not in the rotation in 2013. He barely played prior to Ryan getting hurt and he played even less after Ryan came back.

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Originally Posted by azzefkram

You are way too liberal with your definition of rotation. Coleman was not in the rotation at 4 mpg in 2021. Amile was not in the rotation in 2013. He barely played prior to Ryan getting hurt and he played even less after Ryan came back.

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I'm not interested in debating you over what is or is not "the rotation." I will reiterate the key points: Coach K has most certainly played 4 bigs in the rotation in the past, numerous times. And there were certainly 8-10 mpg (more actually) available for a big last year, even with John coming.

To wit, here are last year's minutes:
Banchero: 33 mpg
Williams: 23.6 mpg
John: 11.3 mpg (ignoring the DNP because that wasn't known in advance)

That combines for 67.9 mpg, leaving 12.1 mpg for a PF/C to fill in. So, again, there were minutes to be had. They just weren't starter's minutes (which he was able to get immediately by transferring). And they weren't going to be starter's minutes in the 2023 season either.

Joey playing big minutes for Michigan against MSU after Jett Howard went down with another ankle injury. He’s got 8, a few boards, and a nice block. Up 2 with 5 to go.

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Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie

I am still trying to figure out where he went and how he completely dropped off the grid. I have asked some people who I thought might have some inside info and have gotten nothing. He has a pretty unique name so one would think he would turn up on Google. I had heard rumors he was doing something similar to Savarino (grad school and playing at a lower level school) but then he would be on a roster and I don't think he is unless he changed his name.

That being said, Duke basketball is a huge commitment. It is obviously a dream for all of us. But at some point, there might be a sense of "been there, done that" and he might have been ready to move on. I'm just curious where he moved on to.

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My understanding was that he graduated in 3 years and was going to The University of Chicago for grad school and was done with hoops.

Just wanted to quickly come here and note how well Jaemyn Brakefield has been playing lately. In the 5 game this month for Ole Miss he has averaged 16ppg and 8.2rpg. He's basically playing as many minutes as he can take, averaging around 35 minutes per game (he played 44 on Saturday in an OT game).

Of course, he is doing all this for an Ole Miss team that is one of the worst teams in the SEC. They are just 2-12 in conference play and are KenPom's #121 team.

Michigan ran a nice set to get Joey a very good look from 3 to send tonight’s game into 2OT. Unfortunately it didn’t end well.

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Originally Posted by JasonEvans

Just wanted to quickly come here and note how well Jaemyn Brakefield has been playing lately. In the 5 game this month for Ole Miss he has averaged 16ppg and 8.2rpg. He's basically playing as many minutes as he can take, averaging around 35 minutes per game (he played 44 on Saturday in an OT game).

Of course, he is doing all this for an Ole Miss team that is one of the worst teams in the SEC. They are just 2-12 in conference play and are KenPom's #121 team.

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Love this update. Brakefield always seemed like a great kid.

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Originally Posted by SOB13

Michigan ran a nice set to get Joey a very good look from 3 to send tonight’s game into 2OT. Unfortunately it didn’t end well.

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https://twitter.com/LukeeeZachary/st...84882898526214

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Originally Posted by JasonEvans

https://twitter.com/LukeeeZachary/st...84882898526214

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If you type "Joey Baker" into the twitter search bar, the results are pretty darn funny right now. It is kinda cruel to the kid, who I like, but funny is funny...

https://twitter.com/illinifan23/stat...88975742402560
https://twitter.com/atomdumas/status...84622675628035
https://twitter.com/EricksonKiva/sta...85904559775745
https://twitter.com/BucketsByBagley/...20722043703299

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Originally Posted by JasonEvans

If you type "Joey Baker" into the twitter search bar, the results are pretty darn funny right now. It is kinda cruel to the kid, who I like, but funny is funny...

https://twitter.com/illinifan23/stat...88975742402560
https://twitter.com/atomdumas/status...84622675628035
https://twitter.com/EricksonKiva/sta...85904559775745
https://twitter.com/BucketsByBagley/...20722043703299

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Gotta give Howard credit, I’m sure Illinois wasn’t expecting a play run for the guy who was 0-4 overall and 0-3 on 3s in the game at that point.

“That’s a bold strategy, Cotton. Let’s see if it pays off for him…”

Yeah, it was a very tough night for Joey, bookended by that airball, after he played quite well in Jett Howard’s place for a few games. Michigan has work to do to get Joey into the tourney. But if they can get it done it should make it harder for UNC to squeeze in. So let’s all say Go Blue for at least a week and a half? ;)

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Originally Posted by scottdude8

Yeah, it was a very tough night for Joey, bookended by that airball, after he played quite well in Jett Howard’s place for a few games. Michigan has work to do to get Joey into the tourney. But if they can get it done it should make it harder for UNC to squeeze in. So let’s all say Go Blue for at least a week and a half? ;)

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Yeah Michigan really needed that one last night. Now they have to go to Indiana, which is a better team than Illinois, and the Hoosiers have been smarting for over a week from that embarrassing home beatdown they took from Iowa. Wolverines really are going to need to break out of the pack at the Big 10 Tournament I'm afraid, or their case is not strong.

Joey is almost exactly the same player as he was at Duke. He hits a nice percentage of his three's, which is pretty much his whole game, but he never seems to hit them when they matter most, at key times, to help put an opponent away. Frustrating for all of us who are fans of Joey.

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Originally Posted by scottdude8

Yeah, it was a very tough night for Joey, bookended by that airball, after he played quite well in Jett Howard’s place for a few games. Michigan has work to do to get Joey into the tourney. But if they can get it done it should make it harder for UNC to squeeze in. So let’s all say Go Blue for at least a week and a half? ;)

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Isn't it a double-edged sword? If Michigan improves, Carolina's victory over them in December looks better. If Michigan fails, then Carolina's victory looks worse, but they could leapfrog them, I guess. Not sure which is better. Maybe just both losing... It's all about 9F, sorry Baker...

9F

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Originally Posted by kako

Isn't it a double-edged sword? If Michigan improves, Carolina's victory over them in December looks better. If Michigan fails, then Carolina's victory looks worse, but they could leapfrog them, I guess. Not sure which is better. Maybe just both losing... It's all about 9F, sorry Baker...

9F

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That seals it. With apologies to scottdude and Joey, I’m going to have to root for both Michigan and Carolina to miss the NCAA. Maybe they can meet up in the NIT? Just coach those Wolverines to be aware of how many time outs they have at the end of the game.