Here's the thread for MLB discussions during the "off-season". We'll kick off a new thread when Spring Training starts.
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Here's the thread for MLB discussions during the "off-season". We'll kick off a new thread when Spring Training starts.
The Wilpons are in discussions to sell their controlling majority share to a hedge fund manager, Steve Cohen.
only in New York, with James Dolan, are the Wilpons not the worst team owners in the city.
As a Mets fan from the Polo Grounds days (first years), I am now convinced that there IS a God.Quote:
Originally Posted by DU82
Speaking of the Mets, Zack Wheeler to the Phils for 5yrs / $118MM.
Hamels to the Braves for 1 year / $18MM. (I think this is a really nice pickup).
I hope you are right. My initial thought on this was I was hoping they would use any remaining money to make an attempt to resign Donaldson but maybe this is an indication the Braves knew he was be asking for more than they are willing to pay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue in the Face
According to the Hall website, Marvin Miller and Ted Simmons have been selected by the Modern Era committee.
(I think somebody put the names up before any announcements.)
Miller obviously belongs in. I really can't understand how Lou Whitaker keeps coming up short - more deserving than his teammates this committee previously selected, and the most deserving of the players on this ballot, and he wasn't even near the top of the voting. I just don't get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DU82
I'm sad about this. Sweet Lou Whitaker deserves better, heck, he deserves the best. That would be an induction I would consider attending. Sighhhh...Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue in the Face
Miller should be in. But otherwise these "Modern Era Committees" do not make sense to me. Simmons had plenty of chances to get elected, but it didn't happen. What has changed, other than perhaps the softening of the criteria, which is a huge slippery slope.Quote:
Originally Posted by DU82
A better understanding of offense and defense. A good/great hitter isn’t based on things like RBIs, which are very situational. On-base percentage is more important than batting average. It’s why, for instance, Dwight Evans, in many eyes, is now considered a better player than His teammate Jim Rice. Wasn’t as flashy or have the counting stats that Rice did, but he did more to help his team win.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie
That, and the writers don’t know everything, and make mistakes.
I could make an argument for each one of the nominees although I wouldn’t have voted for all of them. Each one was a better player than others already in. That’s not a specific reason to vote someone in, but it’s a starting criteria. Simmons doesn’t lower the general standards. (He isn’t well outside those standards as Harold Baines was last year.)
Strasburg back to the Nats for 7 years and $245 million. That is not a typo. He is 31 years old and has been prone to injury at times. I think they way overpayed, especially when you consider they effectively ended any chance of resigning Rendon with this move.
I agree. May look good for a couple of years, but will be bad on the back end.Quote:
Originally Posted by DUKIECB
I think they can still afford Rendon. According to this site they are $35 M away from the $208m competitive balance tax threshold. They could use that for Rendon and then would need to go cheap at 2B (likely call up Carter Keiboom) and also cheap on the bullpen (like they always do) but it can be done. They also were below the tax level this year, so if they want to go over a bit to pay Zim and Hudson the penalties on that won’t be too harsh. The Lerners are one of the wealthiest ownership groups in MLB, have just won a $100m settlement (though being appealed) with their TV deal, and could also sell the naming rights to the stadium. It’s always easy for fans to spend the owner’s money but I see a path here.Quote:
Originally Posted by DUKIECB
Probably. But their window is now. They have 2 years left on Max’s deal, 5 years left on Corbyn, and don’t have to pay Turner FA $ for 3 more years, and Soto and Robles for 5 years. If they have to overpay in 2024-2027 to give themselves more chances to win the WS with this core I think that’s the right bet to make. Plus, Stras has plus command of 4 pitches - he’s not as power dominant as he once was, so there is a chance he could age well provided he stays healthy (which is a huge IF with him admittedly). As you can see I’ve already talked myself into this. Bring on more kool aid!Quote:
Originally Posted by accfanfrom1970
The Ranger has buckets of cash that they are aiming at Rendon, plus a groovy new stadium and the family proximity.
The Yankee wants Cole, right? SS is a very nice man and was the hero of the WS but Cole any day, all day.
Maybe not, according to Fangraphs. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-nati...rasburg-leave/Quote:
Originally Posted by accfanfrom1970
While I wish the Nats could also get Rendon, and agree that in some sense he is less of a risk than a pitcher, Strasburg would be harder to replace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUKIECB
Strasburg is a horse. He could play a long time. What's not clear is the degree of deferment of compensation -- the cost to the Nats could be less than it appears to be.
From what I've read, everything is paid within three years after he stops playing. Also, the deferred amounts bear some amount of interest. I think I read the AAV is 31 or 32M, taking into account the deferrals.Quote:
Originally Posted by sagegrouse
Gerritt Cole didn't get a ring, but he sure got paid - 9 yrs / $324MM to put on the pinstripes.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...year-324m-deal
Scott Boras (Strasburg, Cole, Moustakas) isn't doing too poorly this fall.
$36 million a year for 9 years to throw a baseball. Good grief. I hate the Yankees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue in the Face
I'm a lifelong Yankees fan going back to the Steinbrenner years and I am not happy about this either. I am glad to have him on the team but this salaries are ridiculous. I am guessing they paid a 10-15% premium (which in this case is a lot of money) because they were bidding against themselves and got snookered by Boras. It sounds like they had to pay a bit extra because his natural inclination was to go to CA and those teams were also willing to pay up, but this is craziness. Nine years for a pitcher is way too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by DUKIECB
Rendon to Angels for seven years and $245m. Going to miss seeing him in a Nats uniform. Bummed they didn’t make a better run at him. They convinced the fans that they didn’t pursue Bryce hard last year because they needed money to retain Rendon. I know they didn’t expect Stras to opt out but they are only paying him $10m more per year than they were previously. They could have make this work. Thanks to Rendon for his years in DC and for the WS.
As a Braves fan I am happy with what Washington has done this offseason. Letting Rendon go and signing Strasburg to what is in my opinion way too much money and for far too long is about the best outcome I could have hoped for other than getting Rendon for ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by mkirsh
Simmons played most of his career for crappy teams in a ballpark that suppressed offense. I understand that Johnny Bench's comment about Simmons getting in was, it's about time. Simmons is deserving.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie
Don't mean to pick on you, but I hear this sentiment a lot and think there are multiple angles involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by DUKIECB
1. If you think that as a society we over-value athletes and undervalue teachers, cancer researchers, whatever, then I likely will agree with you, but I'll also say that the market is telling us something different. And unless we want to get involved in a long (and likely banned by DBR) discussion about tax and income redistribution policies, the free market is the driving force here.
2. If you think that a team tying that much of its payroll up in one player, and as a result not having funds under the salary cap/luxury tax to adequately address other needs, then I think that argument has merit as well.
3. If you believe the teams spend too much money on payroll and should cut back, then this is where I am going to disagree. I would rather teams spend money on players instead of the owners pocketing the extra cash. I also don't believe the argument that says teams should lower payroll and reduce ticket prices. Ticket prices are determined by demand not cost, and if owners drop prices then that would allow ticket brokers to profit on the arbitrage without the fans seeing the real savings.
Sorry for the rant (and again, not directed at you), but I think the "players get too much money" discussion is nuanced and worthy of more discussion.
Anybody musing over the MLB-minor leagues contretemps?
Once we discussed the whole picture, my baseball loving son convinced me it's good for the overall health of the game. Tighten up the minors AA, A, IL, and put more concerted effort in producing more big league ready players.
So, alert the commish, I'm ok with it.
Josh Donaldson to the Twins on a 4-year deal. After setting an mlb record for HR's and finishing second overall in runs scored in 2019, that should be some offense this summer.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ns-sources-say
As a Braves fan this stinks. Donaldson is from Alabama, loved playing in Atlanta, said he would like to stay and still left even though the Braves upped their offer to a comparable 4 year deal. Apparently the option for the 5th year did it but now we're out a good third baseman and clean up hitter. UghQuote:
Originally Posted by Blue in the Face
As a Nats fan it's disappointing not to get him in DC, but him leaving the Braves is a nice consolation prize. I am surprised at the contract - at $92M for 4 years it's lower than what he reportedly was asking for ($110/4) and in line with what I had thought the Nats and Braves had offered. Maybe something about the incentive structure is superior in the Twins deal, or maybe he just wanted to make a move to the AL. Assuming no Arenado or Bryant trades, almost all of the big free agents are off the board, so what teams have now is likely what they are going with until the trade deadline. Pitchers and catchers in 4 weeks!Quote:
Originally Posted by DUKIECB
Maybe the Nats and Braves offered less than the rumors indicated. He’s awfully old for that size contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by mkirsh
Josh who? Braves sign Ozuna away from the Cards and they did it on the cheap. 1 year $18 million. Most thought it would take 3 years and $50 mil. I think this is a good deal for the Braves, they don't break the bank and they keep all their top prospects.
Oh, it's hot.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...-price-dodgersQuote:
The Boston Red Sox and Los Angeles Dodgers have agreed to a blockbuster deal that will send former MVP Mookie Betts and left-hander David Price to Los Angeles for a package that includes outfielder Alex Verdugo, sources tell ESPN.
This sucks. The competitive balance in baseball is a joke. How could a team already as talent laden as the Dodgers have the kind of money to pay two players of this caliber? Ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue in the Face
The Dodgers only had the 7th or 8th highest payroll prior to the trade (and were about the 11th highest for purposes of the competitive balance tax). The Red Sox are eating a chunk of Price’s contract, so the Dodgers still shouldn’t be over the competitive balance tax threshold in 2020.Quote:
Originally Posted by DUKIECB
Just looked it up and they are now second to the Yankees at $209 million. The Rays, Pirates, Marlins and Orioles don't have that much payroll combined. It just seems baseball could do more to make the league more competitively balanced. I just get tired of NY and LA and a handful of other teams going shopping for whoever they want every year.Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Diablo
Or, of course, force the laggards to spend more to acquire or retain their players.Quote:
Originally Posted by DUKIECB
Yes, I'm not placing all the blame on the teams that spend as they are simply taking advantage of the current setup which is to their advantage. MLB should force those bottom feeder teams to spend but at the same time keep the teams with the most money in check. There's a lot of talk about the state of the game and things they can do to improve the product (making literal changes to the game itself) but not so much when it comes to competitive balance. I think the game would be followed by a much larger audience if your team actually had a chance to compete. As it stands right now there's about 80% of the entire league's fanbases realizing their team has about a snowballs chance in hades to win anything this year when we haven't even started spring training yet. That's not a model that is going to sell a lot of tickets.Quote:
Originally Posted by duke74
As a Dodgers fan, I will note that last year's team had no one who was first a bigtime player elsewhere. The current Dodgers organization has done a fantastic job of scouting and developing their own players or acquiring guys who were not stars elsewhere and developing them into stars (e.g., Turner, Muncy). This trade definitely changes that, but it isn't really how the Dodges have built a consistent oh-so-close-to-a-World-Title team in recent years. A lot of their payroll has come from retaining players who earned their money by performing with the Dodgers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DUKIECB
Exactly. The current core mostly came up through the Dodgers' farm system (Kershaw, Bellinger, Seager, Buehler, Jansen, Urias, Smith, Barnes, Beaty, Lux, May, Gonsolin, etc.) or were acquired on the cheap and retooled (Taylor, Turner, Muncy).Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke79UNLV77
For a Braves fan to complain about the Dodgers' building a roster through free agent "shopping" is just silly. The Dodgers' free agency results consisted of signing three pitchers with question marks (Treinen, Wood and Nelson) to cheap one-year deals, and the biggest free agent contract they have given out under Friedman's entire five-year tenure was to AJ Pollock (which maxes out at $60 million over 5 years, if he exercises his option). Moreover, every single Dodgers free agent last year (Ryu, Hill, Martin, Freese, Negron) left. The Braves, on the other hand, spent $100 million more than the Dodgers in free agency this offseason, and they had another $80-$90 million on the table for Donaldson (he just turned it down for the Twins).
The Betts/Price deal was not even a matter of shopping; it was a trade that required the Dodgers to give up a lot of value. The Dodgers parted with their top prospect going into last season (Verdugo, who had a good rookie campaign, putting up 3.1 bWAR in only 106 games, and is under control for five more years) and a cost-controlled starter (Maeda) who was under contract for four more years. They have also parted with at least one All-Star (Joc Pederson) and possibly a second one (Stripling...if rumors are true) to make it work financially and stay under the CBT threshold. All of those players also came up through the Dodgers' farm system (except Maeda, who was signed out of Japan).
Look, I do realize the Dodgers had mostly built their team from within before yesterday's trade and I will admit I was angry and venting without really thinking about it but it still doesn't change the fact that their payroll is now $209 million and second to only the Yankees. The disparity is just ridiculous in baseball. Like I said in my last post when I agreed with duke74, I just want their to be a more competitive balance. Congrats to the Dodgers for what they were able to do, I just wish there was a better system that didn't allow a team to have too high or too low of a payroll which would balance the scales. It will never happen though, the owners will never vote for it. This articledoes a decent job of what I'm trying to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Diablo
So uh, this is not a Yankee fan trying to rub anything in, I swear (seriously, I think baseball in NY is better when there's excitement about both teams, and as a Dolan hater, I know all too well the pain of bad ownership), but you might want to pump the breaks on getting religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by duke74
Supposedly the Wilpons wanted changes to what Cohen had thought was a done deal, which sounds an awful lot like what happened when they were negotiating to sell part of the team to David Einhorn last year. I'm starting to think they're a bit frustrating to do business with.Quote:
Hedge fund titan Steve Cohen has ended negotiations to buy the New York Mets, sources familiar with the situation said.
Cohen, CEO of Point72 Asset Management, and Mets’ owners, the Wilpons, would not confirm directly, citing NDAs, but numerous sources close to the process and Cohen tell CNBC that he is walking.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/hedg...urces-say.html