Is It Time For Cut To Retire?

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Originally Posted by Bob Green

Slightly better than it is now but not significantly better. For Duke to fill Wallace Wade Stadium, they need a large number of casual fans to attend games. Casual fans are more interested in staying home, or going to a sports bar, to watch SEC games on TV.

Winning will not solve attendance problems.

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Agree. Duke Football has not had a tradition of winning since, what, the 1950’s? How many fans who used to attend Duke games back then are even still alive? In all honesty there are just not very many Duke Football fans, period, even in North Carolina. Who are all these tens of thousands of Duke fans who would suddenly start filling Wallace Wade just because Duke were to win 7 or 8 games against mediocre ACC teams?

Attendance in sports is down across the board and it ain’t coming back. For crissakes, there were a noticeable number of empty seats and lots of room in the student sections for the Central Arkansas game I attended the other day in 9,314 seat Cameron Indoor. And that’s Duke BASKETBALL, possibly the NCAA’s premier hoops program, which is going on four-decades of winning at historic levels.

Guys and gals let’s get real. Wallace Wade is NEVER going to be consistently full or even half full, at least not with legitimate ticket purchases rather than cheap giveaways. Do I like it? No. Do I wish there were more excitement about Duke Football? Of course. I go to Duke Football games, but often-times alone, because none of my family members or friends ever want to go unless Duke is playing, say, Notre Dame or Alabama. I have come to the realization after living in Durham and Chapel Hill for two decades that it just is what it is.

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Originally Posted by devilirium

7-9 wins a year for several years would bring 25-30 K on bigger conference games. The difference is that the fanbase would be significantly energized and engaged--not unlike the Spurrier years, Goldie's great year in '94, and the latter part of the 2013 year. Essentially, you would be on your way to having a Kidd Brewer like atmosphere in big games.

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Interesting that you would mention Kidd Brewer. I know you mean the stadium in Boone, but as it happens Kidd Brewer played football at Duke.

After being the head coach and then athletic director at Appalachian State, he was involved in buying and selling land in and around Raleigh. (Crabtree Valley, for example). He spent 18 months in prison because of his involvement in bid rigging related to sale of land for highways and road grading equipment.

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Originally Posted by devilirium

7-9 wins a year for several years would bring 25-30 K on bigger conference games. The difference is that the fanbase would be significantly energized and engaged--not unlike the Spurrier years, Goldie's great year in '94, and the latter part of the 2013 year. Essentially, you would be on your way to having a Kidd Brewer like atmosphere in big games.

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Kidd Brewer has an atmosphere with 20-25-30,000 fans because that's the stadium's capacity...30,000. Wade with 20-30 will not equal Brewer Stadium's atmosphere. That said, there were some good crowds for Spurrier's time and Goldsmith's time. There was a really good atmosphere for NC State in 2013 at Wade....I think 40,000 for that game IIRC.

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Originally Posted by lotusland

That would be Rutgers. Duke is also clearly better than Vandy, UMD, and Northwestern imo. Duke may be in the bottom 5 though.

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Originally Posted by Acymetric

Yeah, that's fair. I should have said "one of the worst".

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I went to Vandy for grad school and watch most of their games. The peak for the current head coach is a 6-7 season with a bowl loss. This is with 4-5 starters who should have been drafted by the NFL. That should give you some idea about coaching quality. (The best teams in the SEC are clearly better than the top of the ACC excluding Celmson, but once you get to the bottom, the teams are nearly comparable IMHO.)

My sister went to Rutgers, Schiano should have never left that place. They'd have put up statues to him while he was there if he had stayed.

Right now, Duke isn't much better than a good HS team. On the extension? If they get it together next year, ok. We get more of the same? No..

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Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK

Kidd Brewer has an atmosphere with 20-25-30,000 fans because that's the stadium's capacity...30,000. Wade with 20-30 will not equal Brewer Stadium's atmosphere. That said, there were some good crowds for Spurrier's time and Goldsmith's time. There was a really good atmosphere for NC State in 2013 at Wade...I think 40,000 for that game IIRC.

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It’s also because there’s 17,000 undergraduate students there. BIG difference.

You’re not a Former Duke Athlete, are you?

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Originally Posted by Devil in the Blue Dress

Interesting that you would mention Kidd Brewer. I know you mean the stadium in Boone, but as it happens Kidd Brewer played football at Duke.

After being the head coach and then athletic director at Appalachian State, he was involved in buying and selling land in and around Raleigh. (Crabtree Valley, for example). He spent 18 months in prison because of his involvement in bid rigging related to sale of land for highways and road grading equipment.

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Kidd Brewer ran for governor and would ride around on a motor-grader with brooms attached because he was going to make a clean sweep in Raleigh.

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Originally Posted by DU82

It’s also because there’s 17,000 undergraduate students there. BIG difference.

You’re not a Former Duke Athlete, are you?

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That is a big difference, yes, but the venue is also a difference. These concepts are not mutually exclusive...they are in fact intertwined tightly.

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Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK

That is a big difference, yes, but the venue is also a difference. These concepts are not mutually exclusive...they are in fact intertwined tightly.

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Yep, I shouldve clarified-- certain games would perhaps approach Kidd Brewer. Youre correct, of course, on casual fan phenomenon. What is tied to that is scheduling teams of regional and local interest. Not Kansas, NW, UConn, Liberty, et al. More like State, ECU, App ( once every few yrs). Yes, we could lose but we are not winning as it is--which is to suggest that we need another coach and a more forward thinking AD to accomplish such things.

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Originally Posted by Indoor66

Kidd Brewer ran for governor and would ride around on a motor-grader with brooms attached because he was going to make a clean sweep in Raleigh.

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Since we appear to be going down memory lane re Kidd Brewer, I grew up in Raleigh, traveled out route 70 numerous times (as the local oldsters on here know, route 70 was the route between Raleigh and Durham) including when my older brother was in the Duke class of '61 and then my four years at Duke - class of '69..and one of the things that you couldn't miss was Kidd's 8,000+ sq foot mansion (Belle Acres I believe it was called) on the hill overlooking 70. I always would have liked to go up and see the the place. He was a character!

One note about 70 being the route to Durham. Everett Case, of blessed memory (I started out a State fan with likes of Vic Molodet, Ronnie Shavlik and Lou Pucillo until my brother went to Duke) asked to be buried at Raleigh Memorial Park next to 70 so that he can see and wave to his boys on the way to play Duke in Durham.

Seems the good man had a sense of humor.

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Originally Posted by jaytoc

Seems the good man had a sense of humor.

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Brewer did have....not everyone's cup of tea, but he had quite a way about him. For years, he owned the mud flats that later became Crabtree Valley. He had a HUGE sign on it...or rather, every letter was its own sign...spelled YOU'LL BE GLAD YOU DID. The people who bought that mud flats...dmned sure are glad they did.

He also had a car stolen. Put out info that he didn't care about the care, but he wanted his pet snake back....and the snake is in the car. Urban legend maybe, but very Kidd Brewer like.

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Originally Posted by Hartford Dukie

Since we appear to be going down memory lane re Kidd Brewer, I grew up in Raleigh, traveled out route 70 numerous times (as the local oldsters on here know, route 70 was the route between Raleigh and Durham) including when my older brother was in the Duke class of '61 and then my four years at Duke - class of '69..and one of the things that you couldn't miss was Kidd's 8,000+ sq foot mansion (Belle Acres I believe it was called) on the hill overlooking 70. I always would have liked to go up and see the the place. He was a character!

One note about 70 being the route to Durham. Everett Case, of blessed memory (I started out a State fan with likes of Vic Molodet, Ronnie Shavlik and Lou Pucillo until my brother went to Duke) asked to be buried at Raleigh Memorial Park next to 70 so that he can see and wave to his boys on the way to play Duke in Durham.

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That old house ended up as a restaurant for a year or two after Kidd died. Ate dinner there once.

His name sounds straight out of Cormac McCarthy.

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Originally Posted by Hartford Dukie

Since we appear to be going down memory lane re Kidd Brewer, I grew up in Raleigh, traveled out route 70 numerous times (as the local oldsters on here know, route 70 was the route between Raleigh and Durham) ...

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My trip down memory lane (and attempt to derail the thread) regards my physics prof at Duke, who was describing a sine wave and likening it to US70 between Bethesda and Raleigh. Of all the things to remember …

The same prof spoke about finding the EMF (Electro-Motive Force) and said "It's a good thing we don't have to find the IMF, because that is impossible". I think I was the only one in the class to react, recognizing the reference to the Impossible Mission Force.

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Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK

He also had a car stolen. Put out info that he didn't care about the care, but he wanted his pet snake back...and the snake is in the car. Urban legend maybe, but very Kidd Brewer like.

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Originally Posted by 75Crazie

My trip down memory lane (and attempt to derail the thread) regards my physics prof at Duke, who was describing a sine wave and likening it to US70 between Bethesda and Raleigh. Of all the things to remember …

The same prof spoke about finding the EMF (Electro-Motive Force) and said "It's a good thing we don't have to find the IMF, because that is impossible". I think I was the only one in the class to react, recognizing the reference to the Impossible Mission Force.

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Bonkistry makeup final exam: Question 2 - which tire? :cool:

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Originally Posted by Steven43

Agree. Duke Football has not had a tradition of winning since, what, the 1950’s? How many fans who used to attend Duke games back then are even still alive? In all honesty there are just not very many Duke Football fans, period, even in North Carolina. Who are all these tens of thousands of Duke fans who would suddenly start filling Wallace Wade just because Duke were to win 7 or 8 games against mediocre ACC teams?

Attendance in sports is down across the board and it ain’t coming back. For crissakes, there were a noticeable number of empty seats and lots of room in the student sections for the Central Arkansas game I attended the other day in 9,314 seat Cameron Indoor. And that’s Duke BASKETBALL, possibly the NCAA’s premier hoops program, which is going on four-decades of winning at historic levels.

Guys and gals let’s get real. Wallace Wade is NEVER going to be consistently full or even half full, at least not with legitimate ticket purchases rather than cheap giveaways. Do I like it? No. Do I wish there were more excitement about Duke Football? Of course. I go to Duke Football games, but often-times alone, because none of my family members or friends ever want to go unless Duke is playing, say, Notre Dame or Alabama. I have come to the realization after living in Durham and Chapel Hill for two decades that it just is what it is.

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Attendance to sporting events will continue to decline. Earlier this year, Pat Fitzgerald, Northwestern, discussed the role of technology in the decline.

For anyone wanting to compare our program to Vandy, I give you:

Anchor of Gold

https://www.anchorofgold.com/2019/11...return-in-2020

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Originally Posted by YmoBeThere

For anyone wanting to compare our program to Vandy, I give you:

Anchor of Gold

https://www.anchorofgold.com/2019/11...return-in-2020

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I mean, they're only doing slightly worse than us, in a MUCH tougher conference.

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Originally Posted by Acymetric

I mean, they're only doing slightly worse than us, in a MUCH tougher conference.

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Kinda. They got blown out by UNLV. If we had lost to MTSU, 41-18, what would you have thought of our team? Also, if we had played a MAC team instead of 'bama and Purdue instead of Notre Dame and were at 5-5 or 6-4 how would you feel? They will get their 3rd win this weekend. But they've been less competitive than we have this season.

It would be an interesting matchup if we were to play them. We are the better team, but they have a player or two who could dominate us. Vaughn is a legitimate pro running back who could easily get 150-200 yards against us. But their quarterback play is significantly worse, though Harris has regressed in my view.

The trouble Vandy faces is that 6 wins appears to be the cap with the current coach. What is the next step for them? They have significantly underinvested in facilities, coaching, etc. Does consistent performance lead to facilities upgrades or do upgrades lead to better performance? That along with a coach who appears to be tone deaf has many in the fanbase wondering if he is the right person at the helm.