2005 Class a bust?

[dukelion]

Boateng, Boykins and now McRoberts are gone.

Paulus and Marty are all that's left.

Paulus is well on his way for great junior and senior seasons but Marty might transfer as well due to the glut of players at the 2-3 positions.

All in all you'd have to say that 2005 was a very dissaponiting recruiting class especially considering it was ranked #1 in the country.

[mgtr]

Regarding McBob, this just raises the age-old question of whether you want a great kid for one and done (or two and done, in this case) or not. I say go for the best you can find, and expect some falloff. I think Paulus will be fine (more than fine, actually) and Pocius may have to play a bunch next year, since he can get to the hoop. The jury is still out on Boateng and Boykins.

[imagepro]

"Pocius may have to play a bunch next year, since he can get to the hoop."

And your comment about his possible transfer warrants consideration as well. AS much as I like him, and most here know I DO , I don't expect him to get a tremendous amount of playing time. I wish he would.

It's like one of my "buddies" ( he calls me that, so I'm happy we are) on here tells me, regarding Marty and other things, "I just don't get it". Well, he's right, I don't. Maybe someday I will..........

[duke03]

Since 1988, there's only been one time that a Duke recruiting class included at least 2 McDonald's AA's and didn't retire at least one jersey. That was the high school class of 1994, which did include Trajan (Second-team AA), Wojo (Nat'l Def. POY), and Ricky Price, so it's hard to say that those guys underpeformed. Meanwhile, in 1988, 89, 97, 99, and 2002, we recruited at least two McDonalds AAs and retired at least one of their jerseys. Additionally, these classes featured Brand (who would have been retired if he had stayed and graduated) and Shelden (retired but not a McD AA because of the stuff that came up during his senior yr of HS).

Now the heralded class of 2005, with three McD's AAs (Greg, Josh, Boateng), along with two other esteemed players (Marty and Boykin) has done zilch. Two have transferred, one might, one has left for the NBA after a disappointing two seasons at Duke, and Paulus remains an enigmatic point guard who can hit three-pointers but not drive to the basket or play on-the-ball defense.

Put in the perspective of past heralded Duke classes, this 2005 class really has come up short.

[mapei]

All in all you'd have to say that 2005 was a very dissaponiting recruiting class especially considering it was ranked #1 in the country.


I thought the consensus was that UNC had the best class. At any rate, ours was supposed to be very good.

[BTBall]

By most objective measures, the class has been and is a dissapointment. Basically you have two of five guys who made major contributions and arguably, those two did not live up to expectations. Ideally, the best player will have dominated for two years before leaving for the NBA. In this case, the McRoberts was good, but was was never really great, at least not as great as had been expected.

The only other player to make a signficant contribution has been Paulus, who has also been dissapointing.

[Bob Green]

I remain cautiously optimistic that Marty Pocius will remain at Duke and work his way into some consistent playing time. However, it is reasonable to expect that he is considering other options including the European Pro League.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

[Dukefan4Life]

I didnt lose any sleep over losing boat or boykins.. I didnt see much in any of those two. I still dont see why they were offered to come to duke

[arnie]

Unlike, many observers I thought McRoberts played very well for us most of the year and was our MYP. However, to say that this recruiting class is a disappointment is certainly an understatement from this point on. I don't have any hard data, but I cannot imagine another No. 1 or No. 2 rated class in the past 25 years that had so little remaining after 2 years.

[Devildog]

How can you say Paulus is not living up to expectations? That seems unfair. He was never supposed to be an elite athlete. He played the majority of this year hurt and still emerged as a leader and scorer for the year. He had a very solid freshman year. Further, he has 2 more years to develop. To me it is akin to the bashing Duhon used to endure because everyone wanted him to be Jayson Williams. Paulus is not the next Hurley but he may yet be on par with reasonable expectations.

[jimbonelson]

boykins.. I didnt see much in any of those two. I still dont see why theyI didnt lose any sleep over losing boat or were offered to come to duke

they were both mcdonalds all americans and the best players from there state deleware and california is wy the were offered scholorship

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

Where are people getting information that states Pocius might transfer above and beyond the fact that ANY player might transfer? I realize that many of us are disappointed in how much Marty has played, but maybe Marty knows why he has not played that much and is able to live with it. Has Marty ever said, in any documentable statement, that he is thinking of leaving? Every article I have read, where they actually quote Marty, he has said things that are indicative of his being happy at Duke. Very happy in fact.

GO DUKE!

[mgtr]

Contrary to many, I think that Paulus is OK and will be better next year. And I sure would have hated to play this year without McRoberts. Next year -- well, the time to ask that question was a year ago when Williams and Reddick left. It is amazing we did as well as we did -- plus, there were very few games where we clearly out of it -- maybe three. Not so bad.

[dukie8]

How can you say Paulus is not living up to expectations? That seems unfair. He was never supposed to be an elite athlete. He played the majority of this year hurt and still emerged as a leader and scorer for the year. He had a very solid freshman year. Further, he has 2 more years to develop. To me it is akin to the bashing Duhon used to endure because everyone wanted him to be Jayson Williams. Paulus is not the next Hurley but he may yet be on par with reasonable expectations.

he may not have supposed to have been an "elite athlete" (whatever that means) but he certainly was supposed to have been an elite point guard by the time he was done with his sophmore season. he was the #2 rated pg who went to college (behind chalmers):

http://home.nc.rr.com/rsci/RSCI_100_Final_2005.htm

with those kind of credentials, the expectations are just a tad higher than 3.8 asst/game and 3.1 to/game for this year. for about the millionth time, would people please stop mentioning his name in the same sentence as hurley. it is beyond ridiculous and insulting to hurley to even give the slightest hint of a comparison to probably the greatest college pg of all time. also, i really don't remember people bashing duhon or thinking that his was the next jayson [sic] williams. he was the starting pg on a national championship team. btw, his stats as a soph were 5.9 asst/game and 2.6 to/game, which are much more in line with what would be expected from a top 3 rated pg in his sophmore year.

[throatybeard]

The class would be a "bust" if all five of them sucked.

In the Pocious-goes to Europe scenario, a class of 5 with a serviceable PG and two guys who go pro early does not sound like a "bust" to me. That doesn't mean we got full benefit from these guys. But you might as well call the 2007 class (Deng/Humphries/Livingston) a bust. Yeah, those guys were awful.

[dukie8]

I thought the consensus was that UNC had the best class. At any rate, ours was supposed to be very good.

this says that kansas was #1 in 2005 and we were #2:

http://home.nc.rr.com/rsci/The_Winners/2005_Winners/2005_winners.html

our class looks like the dream team compared to #4 ok st...

[Uncle Drew]

While it sucks McRoberts is leaving he never lived up to the billing of being the #1 player coming out of high school. We all saw glimpses of it from time, but never on a consistant basis. I think the thing that has rubbed all Duke fans a little raw the last two years was bringing in the #1 rated class yet having one player (Hansboro) out perform all five recruits himself. I can't stand the guy, but he is the type of college player every school wants. Meanwhile our class has had two transfers an early entry and we're left with a very good point guard who is a little slow on D and an athletic white boy who doesn't get playing time mainly because of defensive deficentcies. It's hard for anyone not to say the 2005 class has been a disapointment, but with two players left they aren't done yet.
Those of us who remember Dawkins class know full well their first two years were less than stellar. But they ended up staying all four years and making the championship game. Maryland has their sole national championship to thank for their players staying four years. With early entry it's so difficult to guess what team is going to be good from year to year. And in recruiting it's IMPOSSIBLE to know which players are going to have an immediate impact, be a project player or a total bust. Four year players are great in that you know they are going to be there in the rotation. But at the same time these days if a player is any good odds are he will be gone after a year or two.

[Forrest]

[Paulus] was the #2 rated pg who went to college (behind chalmers):

http://home.nc.rr.com/rsci/RSCI_100_Final_2005.htm

Wow, what a mediocre class. Disregarding the NBA-bound players (of whom only Monta Ellis and, generously, Andrew Bynum and Gerald Green have made any impact yet), there are very few top-notch players in the 2005 group. Kansas has three of the best in Rush, Chalmers and Wright, UNC has Hansborough, and Arizona has Marcus Williams, but it's a pretty big drop from there to McRoberts, Richard Hendrix, Tasmin Mitchell, Jamont Gordon, Brandon Costner, and James/McNeal/Matthews of Marquette.

Duke's 2005 class may not have been all that, but it's not like there was a lot to choose from.

Forrest

[Duke15304]

With smith, singler, king and hope patterson, it seems like to me this years class will have more impact then last years which seemed to be more development

[3rdgenDukie]

The HS class of '05 was one of the weakest in history. That said, had we landed the following players:

McDermott
Clinch
Douglas-Roberts
Brockman

All of whom we pursued, and finished 2-3rd for, we'd have been golden. McRoberts had a hell of a year by most standards, and Paulus will have an above average career, but we missed on some better players.

[mapei]

they were both mcdonalds all americans and the best players from there state deleware and california is wy the were offered scholorship

Please tell me this writer did not graduate from Duke University.

[dukie8]

Please tell me this writer did not graduate from Duke University.

hysterical :)

[mgtr]

Probably UNC

[77devil]

The class would be a "bust" if all five of them sucked.

In the Pocious-goes to Europe scenario, a class of 5 with a serviceable PG and two guys who go pro early does not sound like a "bust" to me. That doesn't mean we got full benefit from these guys. But you might as well call the 2007 class (Deng/Humphries/Livingston) a bust. Yeah, those guys were awful.

Have you checked Humphries' numbers? I'd say they qualify as awful.:D

[Matches]

In the Pocious-goes to Europe scenario, a class of 5 with a serviceable PG and two guys who go pro early does not sound like a "bust" to me. That doesn't mean we got full benefit from these guys. But you might as well call the 2007 class (Deng/Humphries/Livingston) a bust. Yeah, those guys were awful.

Livingston wasn't in the same class as Deng and Humphries. Livingston would have matriculated along with Nelson and McClure.

If Marty does depart, then yeah, I'd have to say the Class of 2009 has been disappointing. That'd be three guys out of five who transferred out, one who left for the NBA after two good-but-not-great seasons, and Paulus. I still think Paulus will be very good by the time he is a senior, but going in I think we all expected to get more than one long-term player out of that group. McR's departure was foreseeable, but three transfers is a prety big deal.

[gw67]

I tend to agree with newcomer, Devildog. I expect to see additional improvement in Paulus during the next two years. He has been a two-year starter and his offensive stats after two years are better than Duhon's for shooting and points per game, about the same for assists per game, and worse for turnovers per game.

The area that Paulus needs to improve the most next year is cutting down on his turnovers. IMO, this was the biggest team problem all year and only Scheyer of the starters seemed to value the ball.

As to the original post, I suspect that most of us had high expectations for the 2005 class and even a four-year starter at point guard (assume Paulus will be starter for next two years) and a two-year starter at forward will not be sufficient to meet those expectations.

gw67

[jimbonelson]

Please tell me this writer did not graduate from Duke University.

i did not graduate from duke university but what is wrong with my post

[Bob Green]

I am not the grammer/spelling police but here goes:

1. You typed "there state" but "their state" would've been correct.
2. You misspelled the word why (wy)
3. You left the "y" off of the word they (the)

But I understood your point.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

[jimbonelson]

I am not the grammer/spelling police but here goes:

1. You typed "there state" but "their state" would've been correct.
2. You misspelled the word why (wy)
3. You left the "y" off of the word they (the)

But I understood your point.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

ok ok i understand that im not great at grammer/spelling ....sorry to offend anybody with that

[Bob Green]

You didn't offend me. Keep posting. I enjoy everyone's opinion.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

[ojaidave]

also, i really don't remember people bashing duhon or thinking that his was the next jayson [sic] williams. he was the starting pg on a national championship team. btw, his stats as a soph were 5.9 asst/game and 2.6 to/game, which are much more in line with what would be expected from a top 3 rated pg in his sophmore year.

You misremember then. Duhon got hammered by the chattering masses, particularly his soph & jr. years. Because he won the McDonald's 3 pt shooting contest, everyone expected Duhon to be a terrific shooter in addition to a steady point guard. It wasn't until his Senior year that Duhon got the credit, I felt, he deserved.

Anyway, I think Paulus is on the way towards big things in his Duke career. Time will tell, however.

Dave

[JJweMISSu]

Back to the talk about Marty, i thought he deserved toplay much more against VCU. Did he sit out the whole second half?

Next, that recruiting class was bad but what about 2003, we only landed 1 top 100 recruit (as of scout.com) and he left after one year (Deng, im still very mad he left that quickly). That hurt us this year because whoever else we could have got would have been are senior leaders this year.

Lastly, Paulus if you would have asked me if he is a disappointment at the beginning of the year i would have said Of Course because of his horrible Ast:TO ratio. He improved dramatically though. Im just wondering though because in my mind i thought Scheyer really let us down in the late part of the season, anyone else think so?

[dukie8]

Back to the talk about Marty, i thought he deserved toplay much more against VCU. Did he sit out the whole second half?

Next, that recruiting class was bad but what about 2003, we only landed 1 top 100 recruit (as of scout.com) and he left after one year (Deng, im still very mad he left that quickly). That hurt us this year because whoever else we could have got would have been are senior leaders this year.

Lastly, Paulus if you would have asked me if he is a disappointment at the beginning of the year i would have said Of Course because of his horrible Ast:TO ratio. He improved dramatically though. Im just wondering though because in my mind i thought Scheyer really let us down in the late part of the season, anyone else think so?

huh? paulus's asst/to ratio was 5.2/3.3 last year and 3.8/3.1 this year. how is that a dramatic improvement? please tell me that you didn't go to duke as well.

[JJweMISSu]

I said from the beginning of the year (meaning this year) when he had more TO than AST he improved alot. And if he did get it to 3.8/3.1 i would say that is a great improvement from the beginning of the season when is was 1:1 through 9 games

[dukie8]

I said from the beginning of the year (meaning this year) when he had more TO than AST he improved alot. And if he did get it to 3.8/3.1 i would say that is a great improvement from the beginning of the season when is was 1:1 through 9 games

in his last 10 games, he had 39 assists and 36 tos, which yields a ratio of 1.1/1.0 and is WORSE than his season average and exactly the same that he was at through 9 games (it is a stretch, but i am trusting you on that figure).

[Clipsfan]

in his last 10 games, he had 39 assists and 36 tos, which yields a ratio of 1.1/1.0 and is WORSE than his season average and exactly the same that he was at through 9 games (it is a stretch, but i am trusting you on that figure).

Paulus also played much more as a SG during the last 10 games, stepping up his scoring significantly. Additionally, the offense switched to one where I don't think that he had as many opportunities for assists (the weave).

[dukie8]

Paulus also played much more as a SG during the last 10 games, stepping up his scoring significantly. Additionally, the offense switched to one where I don't think that he had as many opportunities for assists (the weave).

paulus was NOT the sg -- ever, as far as i can recall. also, the rationalization that he didn't have as many opportunities for assists is a new one.

[JJweMISSu]

huh? paulus's asst/to ratio was 5.2/3.3 last year and 3.8/3.1 this year. how is that a dramatic improvement? please tell me that you didn't go to duke as well.

So your agreeing with me that at the beginning of the year he looked bad but it got alot better throughout the year?

[JJweMISSu]

Paulus also played much more as a SG during the last 10 games, stepping up his scoring significantly. Additionally, the offense switched to one where I don't think that he had as many opportunities for assists (the weave).

Please show me a game clip when he was a SG?

[mapei]

I think Paulus definitely improved toward the end of the year in important ways, but not in his turnovers, unfortunately.